Lets Have OUR OWN PROTEST

Saintsfan4ever · 09-09-2016, 02:18 PM

All these ungrateful doofus sh*tbags that want to bring attention to themselves by disrespecting our county's flag, they're idiots. And if you think this is exercising "free speech" or it's some kind of "protected protest"... well, it's not exactly.

Let me explain in case you were sleeping in your 8th grade Civics class. Freedom of Speech in the US Constitution means you can speak-out and address grievances against your GOVERNMENT in public or private and the GOVERNMENT is forbidden to abridge that right.

I am a business owner. If one of my employees shows up to work and says "Capitalism sucks! We need Socialism!" I can fire that person on the spot (if I wanted to), because their freedom of speech is not protected in the workplace. Their freedom of speech is only protected against the GOVERNMENT taking action against them for their comments. Capiche?

In other words, Freedom of Speech does not guarantee that you're exempt from the consequences of what you say. It only means that the Federal Government can not pass a law or enforce a law to shut-you-up if you speak out against the Government. That is why the Founders included Freedom of Speech in the 1st Amendment. It's not a pass to say whatever you wanta say, whenever you wanta say it, to whomever you wanta say it to.

SkyMike, you rock!

exiled · 09-09-2016, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Saintsfan4ever

Let me explain in case you were sleeping in your 8th grade Civics class. Freedom of Speech in the US Constitution means you can speak-out and address grievances against your GOVERNMENT in public or private and the GOVERNMENT is forbidden to abridge that right.

I am a business owner. If one of my employees shows up to work and says "Capitalism sucks! We need Socialism!" I can fire that person on the spot (if I wanted to), because their freedom of speech is not protected in the workplace. Their freedom of speech is only protected against the GOVERNMENT taking action against them for their comments. Capiche?

In other words, Freedom of Speech does not guarantee that you're exempt from the consequences of what you say. It only means that the Federal Government can not pass a law or enforce a law to shut-you-up if you speak out against the Government. That is why the Founders included Freedom of Speech in the 1st Amendment. It's not a pass to say whatever you wanta say, whenever you wanta say it, to whomever you wanta say it to.

SkyMike, you rock!

I assume your employees are non union and do not have a contract. So, yes, you can fire them. NFL players have in their contracts what they can or can not wear. Which is why CK can not write "Cops Suck" on his uniform.

He is not however required to stand. It is his right. No, I was not sleeping in my 8th grade civics class... how did you phrase it? capiche?

speaking of civics...

When a judge walks into a court room and the court clerk says, "All rise for the honorable Judge Barbra Jones." You are required to stand (if you are able) or could be held in contempt of court. The judge is sovereign over his or her court room. You are also required to take off your hat when instructed to do so. You could be held in contempt of court, if you don't.

HOWEVER, we say in this country (that I happen to love) "Please Rise for the National Anthem." It is a request - one that does not have to be honored. If it were required - either through a law or through threat of loosing your job, it would no longer be a country worth standing up for.

Yes, SaintsFan4Ever, you could take your employees to the game and if they did not stand for the National Anthem you could fire them, and with out a contract they would have no recourse.

and it is too bad that they do not. I don't know what 8th grade civics class you took but it was not me that was sleeping through mine... capiche?

burningmetal · 09-09-2016, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by exiled

I assume your employees are non union and do not have a contract. So, yes, you can fire them. NFL players have in their contracts what they can or can not wear. Which is why CK can not write "Cops Suck" on his uniform.

He is not however required to stand. It is his right. No, I was not sleeping in my 8th grade civics class... how did you phrase it? capiche?

speaking of civics...

When a judge walks into a court room and the court clerk says, "All rise for the honorable Judge Barbra Jones." You are required to stand (if you are able) or could be held in contempt of court. The judge is sovereign over his or her court room. You are also required to take off your hat when instructed to do so. You could be held in contempt of court, if you don't.

HOWEVER, we say in this country (that I happen to love) "Please Rise for the National Anthem." It is a request - one that does not have to be honored. If it were required - either through a law or through threat of loosing your job, it would no longer be a country worth standing up for.

Yes, SaintsFan4Ever, you could take your employees to the game and if they did not stand for the National Anthem you could fire them, and with out a contract they would have no recourse.

and it is too bad that they do not. I don't know what 8th grade civics class you took but it was not me that was sleeping through mine... capiche?

What makes you assume that there is anything in their contracts that protects them? Simply having a contract doesn't give you the freedom to say or act as you please. Players get suspended for a little something called "conduct detrimental to the team".

If a team decides that a player is causing a distraction by his actions they reserve the right to consider that detrimental conduct.

Or they could cut the player. You've never seen a guy get released? Did his contract protect him? A contract simply means you are entitled to a certain amount of pay for a certain period of time, so long as you have not been released from that contract. In which case, you collect whatever guaranteed money you were entitled to and that's it. Unless there is explicit language in the contract preventing the team from releasing or suspended a player for any reason, then it doesn't protect them. And what owner would sign off on a contract that allows the player to run amuck?

Saintsfan4ever · 09-09-2016, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by exiled

I assume your employees are non union and do not have a contract. So, yes, you can fire them. NFL players have in their contracts what they can or can not wear. Which is why CK can not write "Cops Suck" on his uniform.

He is not however required to stand. It is his right. No, I was not sleeping in my 8th grade civics class... how did you phrase it? capiche?

speaking of civics...

When a judge walks into a court room and the court clerk says, "All rise for the honorable Judge Barbra Jones." You are required to stand (if you are able) or could be held in contempt of court. The judge is sovereign over his or her court room. You are also required to take off your hat when instructed to do so. You could be held in contempt of court, if you don't.

HOWEVER, we say in this country (that I happen to love) "Please Rise for the National Anthem." It is a request - one that does not have to be honored. If it were required - either through a law or through threat of loosing your job, it would no longer be a country worth standing up for.

Yes, SaintsFan4Ever, you could take your employees to the game and if they did not stand for the National Anthem you could fire them, and with out a contract they would have no recourse.

and it is too bad that they do not. I don't know what 8th grade civics class you took but it was not me that was sleeping through mine... capiche?

The point is that no one is protected by Freedom of Speech rights for actions at the workplace. If the NFL says CK doesn't have to stand, he doesn't have to stand. But, if the NFL did require that NFL players stand for the National Anthem, no NFL player would be protected from the NFL by 1st Amendment Freedom of Speech rights.
People keep throwing this phrase around "He has a right..."... well, maybe, but it's not a 1st Amendment right in this case. The NFL is only allowing it. Which I think is a very poor decision.

09-09-2016, 02:18 PM	#1
Saintsfan4ever 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Moss Point, MS Posts: 612 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Lets Have OUR OWN PROTEST All these ungrateful doofus sh*tbags that want to bring attention to themselves by disrespecting our county's flag, they're idiots. And if you think this is exercising "free speech" or it's some kind of "protected protest"... well, it's not exactly. Let me explain in case you were sleeping in your 8th grade Civics class. Freedom of Speech in the US Constitution means you can speak-out and address grievances against your GOVERNMENT in public or private and the GOVERNMENT is forbidden to abridge that right. I am a business owner. If one of my employees shows up to work and says "Capitalism sucks! We need Socialism!" I can fire that person on the spot (if I wanted to), because their freedom of speech is not protected in the workplace. Their freedom of speech is only protected against the GOVERNMENT taking action against them for their comments. Capiche? In other words, Freedom of Speech does not guarantee that you're exempt from the consequences of what you say. It only means that the Federal Government can not pass a law or enforce a law to shut-you-up if you speak out against the Government. That is why the Founders included Freedom of Speech in the 1st Amendment. It's not a pass to say whatever you wanta say, whenever you wanta say it, to whomever you wanta say it to. SkyMike, you rock! SmashMouth, skymike and frydaddy like this.
	Saint4

09-09-2016, 03:45 PM	#2
exiled Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: on the road - now based in Austin, TX Posts: 486	Re: Lets Have OUR OWN PROTEST Originally Posted by Saintsfan4ever Let me explain in case you were sleeping in your 8th grade Civics class. Freedom of Speech in the US Constitution means you can speak-out and address grievances against your GOVERNMENT in public or private and the GOVERNMENT is forbidden to abridge that right. I am a business owner. If one of my employees shows up to work and says "Capitalism sucks! We need Socialism!" I can fire that person on the spot (if I wanted to), because their freedom of speech is not protected in the workplace. Their freedom of speech is only protected against the GOVERNMENT taking action against them for their comments. Capiche? In other words, Freedom of Speech does not guarantee that you're exempt from the consequences of what you say. It only means that the Federal Government can not pass a law or enforce a law to shut-you-up if you speak out against the Government. That is why the Founders included Freedom of Speech in the 1st Amendment. It's not a pass to say whatever you wanta say, whenever you wanta say it, to whomever you wanta say it to. SkyMike, you rock! I assume your employees are non union and do not have a contract. So, yes, you can fire them. NFL players have in their contracts what they can or can not wear. Which is why CK can not write "Cops Suck" on his uniform. He is not however required to stand. It is his right. No, I was not sleeping in my 8th grade civics class... how did you phrase it? capiche? speaking of civics... When a judge walks into a court room and the court clerk says, "All rise for the honorable Judge Barbra Jones." You are required to stand (if you are able) or could be held in contempt of court. The judge is sovereign over his or her court room. You are also required to take off your hat when instructed to do so. You could be held in contempt of court, if you don't. HOWEVER, we say in this country (that I happen to love) "Please Rise for the National Anthem." It is a request - one that does not have to be honored. If it were required - either through a law or through threat of loosing your job, it would no longer be a country worth standing up for. Yes, SaintsFan4Ever, you could take your employees to the game and if they did not stand for the National Anthem you could fire them, and with out a contract they would have no recourse. and it is too bad that they do not. I don't know what 8th grade civics class you took but it was not me that was sleeping through mine... capiche?
	"it is from the lost, your culture has always been found." - chandler (9th ward new orleans #2)

09-09-2016, 04:06 PM	#3
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Lets Have OUR OWN PROTEST Originally Posted by exiled I assume your employees are non union and do not have a contract. So, yes, you can fire them. NFL players have in their contracts what they can or can not wear. Which is why CK can not write "Cops Suck" on his uniform. He is not however required to stand. It is his right. No, I was not sleeping in my 8th grade civics class... how did you phrase it? capiche? speaking of civics... When a judge walks into a court room and the court clerk says, "All rise for the honorable Judge Barbra Jones." You are required to stand (if you are able) or could be held in contempt of court. The judge is sovereign over his or her court room. You are also required to take off your hat when instructed to do so. You could be held in contempt of court, if you don't. HOWEVER, we say in this country (that I happen to love) "Please Rise for the National Anthem." It is a request - one that does not have to be honored. If it were required - either through a law or through threat of loosing your job, it would no longer be a country worth standing up for. Yes, SaintsFan4Ever, you could take your employees to the game and if they did not stand for the National Anthem you could fire them, and with out a contract they would have no recourse. and it is too bad that they do not. I don't know what 8th grade civics class you took but it was not me that was sleeping through mine... capiche? What makes you assume that there is anything in their contracts that protects them? Simply having a contract doesn't give you the freedom to say or act as you please. Players get suspended for a little something called "conduct detrimental to the team". If a team decides that a player is causing a distraction by his actions they reserve the right to consider that detrimental conduct. Or they could cut the player. You've never seen a guy get released? Did his contract protect him? A contract simply means you are entitled to a certain amount of pay for a certain period of time, so long as you have not been released from that contract. In which case, you collect whatever guaranteed money you were entitled to and that's it. Unless there is explicit language in the contract preventing the team from releasing or suspended a player for any reason, then it doesn't protect them. And what owner would sign off on a contract that allows the player to run amuck? skymike likes this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

09-09-2016, 09:50 PM	#4
Saintsfan4ever 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Moss Point, MS Posts: 612 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Lets Have OUR OWN PROTEST Originally Posted by exiled I assume your employees are non union and do not have a contract. So, yes, you can fire them. NFL players have in their contracts what they can or can not wear. Which is why CK can not write "Cops Suck" on his uniform. He is not however required to stand. It is his right. No, I was not sleeping in my 8th grade civics class... how did you phrase it? capiche? speaking of civics... When a judge walks into a court room and the court clerk says, "All rise for the honorable Judge Barbra Jones." You are required to stand (if you are able) or could be held in contempt of court. The judge is sovereign over his or her court room. You are also required to take off your hat when instructed to do so. You could be held in contempt of court, if you don't. HOWEVER, we say in this country (that I happen to love) "Please Rise for the National Anthem." It is a request - one that does not have to be honored. If it were required - either through a law or through threat of loosing your job, it would no longer be a country worth standing up for. Yes, SaintsFan4Ever, you could take your employees to the game and if they did not stand for the National Anthem you could fire them, and with out a contract they would have no recourse. and it is too bad that they do not. I don't know what 8th grade civics class you took but it was not me that was sleeping through mine... capiche? The point is that no one is protected by Freedom of Speech rights for actions at the workplace. If the NFL says CK doesn't have to stand, he doesn't have to stand. But, if the NFL did require that NFL players stand for the National Anthem, no NFL player would be protected from the NFL by 1st Amendment Freedom of Speech rights. People keep throwing this phrase around "He has a right..."... well, maybe, but it's not a 1st Amendment right in this case. The NFL is only allowing it. Which I think is a very poor decision. spkb25 and skymike like this.
	Saint4

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