Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Listen I know we are banged up on both sides of the ball, but why can teams like the Vikings continue success when they face injury. They lost their starting HOF running back and starting QB. It baffles me why this organization crumbles when injury occurs.

Hell, New England dismantled the Texans with a 3rd string rookie QB who had never played a snap in the NFL.

I do realize that I am making a case for the offense side of the ball and we did put up 32 points last night. I also realize the elephant in the room that our defense is banged up and we are just plain terrible on D.

My point is other teams find a way to not let injuries become their excuse for losses.

Thoughts?

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Coaching.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

So is coaching it? We get new coaches then all the sudden we get pressure on the QB with the current players we have. New coaches equal running backs from banging out runs for 25 yards a pop, mind you with the same exact players on this team that we have now.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

I'm thinking roster depth, and depth meaning quality players. It's hard to put Rookies and Free Agents just coming in off the wire into top speed game action. But I will agree that smart Coaches find a way.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Better roster management

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Bingo.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

I also think its players not buying into the same stuff they been preaching for ten years anymore, that outside a cpl of years hasn't yielded anything. NE spouts the same stuff but they produce so you can buy into it year in and year out

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Coaching, poor game plan. We have enough strengths to compensate for the weaknesses. If we didn't the games would be complete blowouts.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

No the real reason this happens is because those teams are actually build with solid O lines and D lines. You can miss one or your 'work horses' and still be successful behind a damn good line.


WHICH WE HAVE NEITHER!!!!!

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Would you all agree on talent evaluation and depth like Railboss said as well? I mean damn, how is it possible our defense can continue to struggle year after year? It seems we are snake bit with injuries every year as well.

Other teams have injuries as well but they seem to move forward ie. PATRIOTS

How can we develop depth and have better talent evaluation on the defensive side of the ball.

We try to bring in free agents that do well with other teams and they do not live up to the expectations here.

Another aggravation is watching Malcolm Jenkins play like an all pro on the Eagles. This has to be correlated with coaching and scheme.

Im just baffled at this point.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

It's hard when you lose most of your defensive starters to injury; just ask Rob Ryan when he was with the Cowboys. Losing Sean Lee and a couple in the secondary got him fired...

We've lost our top 3 corners and our LBs are not that good to start with :doh:

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

It's not the sole reason, but one serious issue in this area where other teams succeed with injuries and we don't, is the DEAD MONEY.

If you have DEAD MONEY, and are struggling to free space up against the cap (like Loomis was doing literally every week/month this whole off season), all you can do is sign league-minimum UDFA's at the bare minimum to plug the holes in the roster after your starters and your free agent signings in the spring (Spiller, Byrd, Brandon Browner, and so on). If back in March/May we had magically had about $20 million to spare, to spend on players, like MOST TEAMS do, we would/could/should have likely gotten some MUCH better quality backups in the mix. Go back in the time machine, take a look around....if the Saints had more money to play with, back when Loomis and Payton were putting the early roster and draft list together, if they'd had some of that $20 or $30 or $40 million dollars in dead money that they're not able to use, it's quite possible that we could have gotten some higher-priced veteran backups or solid journeyman role players, to fill some of those spots currently held by absolute bargain-basement, league-minimum, spare parts scrubs. I don't mean superstars or big names, I only mean humdrum guys like Scott Shanle or Anthony Hargrove, those type of journeyman type players. They also wouldn't have to depend so much on reaching for big-splash free agent players with nagging injury histories, which Payton and Loomis often have to do, because they are cheaper on the free agent market, and that's all they can afford because of the ongoing, perennial DEAD MONEY problem. If only we could have had some of those types of players in the mix, solid journeyman guys at the bottom of our roster, instead of walk-ons, and undrafted rookie scrubs from nowhere schools we see so much of now, "learning on the job." See what that $15 or $20 million could have done, if we'd had it to spend, on solid, dependable defensive pickups in the spring?

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

I don't think any other team is dealing with the number injured starters that we are this season. Not saying that's the only problem here but is sure is a big part of it.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Oh there are injuries on other teams and even some suspended players in KEY positions as QB - Brady.

WHy are they 3-0 they have a solid line they can play next man up behind them.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

And a pretty good defense! All thanks to Matt Patricia

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Those teams are ball-control teams?

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Losing one or two players is much different than losing 10-12 starters.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

There have been a few notable exceptions but for the most part, they don't. Every year there's a team or two that are expected to do well at the start of the season but they end up losing more guys than they can make up for and fall far short of expectations.

I keep seeing Brady used as an example of playing through a loss of a player but nobody has mentioned what happened to the Cowboys last year after Romo went down.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Coaching, draft picks, attitude, physical conditioning...should I go on?

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

quality of bench players that can only be achieved by a fair batting average in the mid rounds of the draft, same type of FA players and smart trades.

Drafts average is piss poor
Cap is all a mess
Saints can not trade worth a squat

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

I remembered the year we won the super bowl. We had plenty of injuries that year. We had people to step in and fill the void. Something is very different about this team now.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Solid 2nd tier depth. That 09 team also had an above average special teams group. Bobby McCray, Anthony Hargrove, Tom Johnson were all good players/support players/football smart.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

So many are making excuses this year... Injuries being the biggest one. I wonder what the excuse will be next year. What was the excuse the last 2 years?

How many star players did Greg Williams have on defense? Not many, still got the job done.

For those of you making excuses about injuries; we were pretty banged up on defense at times during 09-11 and still won.
In fact many of you remember the 2009 patriots game, we basically signed CBs off the street the day before and not only won but killed the best team in the league.

Losers make excuses, winners find a way.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Add in bad drafting & the lack of draft picks. I'm like B&G here. It's getting tired & old of constantly trading up to lose picks. Here is a stat for you ..

Since 2009, the Saints have made 40 picks. The NE Patriots have made 67. The draft has been the core/heart and soul of a franchise. I get the draft is a crap game, however having more darts to throw at the board increases the chance of hitting the bullseye.

Personnel
FA signings
Cuts
Dead Money
Coaching

Injuries are only a small fraction of our problems and why we trot out a losing product on Sundays.

Side note: Scouts ... a pass rusher would be a nice starting place to look in the 2017 draft.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Forget what other teams are doing, the patriots have probably the best coach of all time and the Vikings have arguably the best D in the league.

I agree you can't just cry injuries because every team has them, but I do believe if we weren't missing 6/11 open day starters, the D would be at least in top 22-27 Defense in the league. Which would be enough to have a decent record, with our Offense.

Completely agree that we have a lot of other problems with Dead money, cuts, and drafting.

However, I think even if you have depth on the team, you can't make up for missing over 50% of your team. More likely depth can help when you have 2-3 starters missing.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Who beside Brees and Harper were here 10 years ago?

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Jarhi Evans

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Sean Payton and pretty much the entire coaching staff... with the exception of Greg Williams.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Shaper

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

You make some very valid points however, crappy drafts can be blamed for most of our problems.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Strief and Evans

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Harper and Evans wouldn't even be here if we had addressed the roster needs accordingly.

Harper is done, I didn't think he could get any slower but he has.
He had the angle on a 3rd down run and still lost the race.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

While some would argue that blaming all the injuries is cop out, but I'd still identify it as the biggest reason why the Saints are struggling.

And IMO you can't compare the Vikes and the Saints. The two teams are in a very different situation both from the standpoint of the roster and the staff.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

1) Poor draft Choices
2) Lack of draft choices.
3) Poor Free agent signings.
4) Injuries.
5) Payton is not Bellicheck.
6) Poor scouting.
7) Causing loss of CAP control, signing left overs from other teams.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

At this point it doesn't matter how much money you have left since there's absolutely no proven talent available that you can sign to combat the avalanche of injuries.

I don't care how great your front office or roster is - any team that would face the amount of injuries the Saints have - would have serious obstacles in staying competitive.

Just look at the CB position...

Lewis (cut because of health)
Breaux
Williams
Wilson
Swann

That's your top 5 corners heading into this year - all sidelined because of health issues.

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

13-3, starts this week

Re: Why can other teams succeed when injuries occur
 

Physical conditioning is not so much the problem. The small assumption is we are overworking the players in that department.