Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

So, it seems like through 5 weeks of our teams play, Pete Carmichael has been calling the plays for the offense.

In my opinion, with Pete Carmichael, our offense has a tendency to start fast and gain an early lead, then coming out in the 3rd quarter we get "three and out" syndrome. This means we put our D in a tough position, they start to allow big second half totals and our offense ends up playing catch up in the 4th quarter.
It's exactly what happened during Oakland, San Diego and Carolina.

Now, my main thought is - Has Sean Payton given exclusive rights to the offense to Pete Carmichael so he can keep his eye on the defense? Multiple ex-saints mentioned that Payton got far too involved in the D and changed what was working to suit himself.

I was all for getting rid of Rob Ryan, now I think that Sean Payton is really to blame for the defense.

Injuries have decimated our secondary, I will agree with that, but all those players are in the NFL for a reason.

Buffalo with Rob Ryan - 7th ranked scoring D with 17.2 points per game.

Saints D with Dennis Allen (Sean Payton) - 28th ranked scoring D with 33.6 points per game - Only because we have had our Bye Week, in total points we are 10 points away from last place, last place is Oakland who haven't had their Bye week yet!!!

I just think it's a little too coincidental that we had a very intimidating and aggressive D in 2013, then in 2014 when we sign players like Byrd it all falls off and multiple reports of Sean Payton getting too involved in the D come out.

Is Payton letting Carmichael call the plays so he can mess with the D? If he is it really needs to stop, Sean is an offensive genius and a defensive dunce.

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

The Saints also had a top ranked defense while Rex Ryan was with the Saints, as well as a couple historically bad defenses as well.

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

Also remember that reports came out that Payton was attempting to emulate Seattle's D, the main reason for the Byrd signing - to be our "Earl Thomas"

That was just before 2014, our D was incredible in 2013, then 2014 comes around the D has been changed and we are all of a sudden 32nd ranked again.

Add that to the fact that we drafted someone because he had the same build as Richard Sherman in Stanley Jean-Baptiste in the 2ND ROUND!!

I doubt he's even still in the league at this point....

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

SJB was a rob pick, I don't know wpo the byrd pick was, maybe sp, not sure.

Have no idea if what rob said was true, there were absolutely no reports of sean getting involved with the d in 2014 until RR said it

Matter of fact just to show you, go google "Rob Ryan ready to get weird"

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

This is speculation on my part, but maybe Rob trying to "get weird" would have worked if the reports are true about Payton changing the D.

Who knows, just seems a bit weird that Buffalo is playing lights out now and our D is just as bad as when Rob was here.

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

Well I heard Rex took over the playcalling after the jets game.

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

Rob inherited a pretty damn good defense.
Give him more than one third of a season to mess it up.
He will mess it up.

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

I like the defensive plan with Robertson & Stupar. The defensive plan seem to be working but those PI flags is what made this game closer. If they can't generate any sacks they need to install more blitz and DL stunts to disrupt the qb. BIG CLAPS OF THE HANDS for benching Laurinaitis, now just trade him or cut him when Breaux or Rankins return

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

Agree on the PI calls.
Agree on the LB analysis.
Think DA is doing a lot with little.
The D hit Newton a lot early on.
Big hand claps here too for benching JL.
No one is trading for JL.
If the Saints cut another guy with dead money?
The amateur GMs will have pseudo heart failure and make life miserable for the rest of us.
Let him tutor the young dudes. He's getting paid anyway.

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

Is this a trick to see if were all awake, Rex Ryan was with the Saints.

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

Driving the car and building the car are two way different phases - Rob is driving Rex's defense...

Someone(s) in this organization drove the Saints picks for three years as we acquired front seven pieces for a base 3-4 defense...

On the line, Cam Jordan, at his age, speed, skill-set is a better fit for a 3-4; he's too damn slow as a 4-3 and is horrible in space...

Spent a third round pick on a good 3-4 defensive end in Akiem Hicks; let go for a blocking tight end?!?

Plus we carelessly let geaux another good lineman in Tyrunn Walker (who we could now clearly use)...

John Jenkins is and was supposed to be a 3-4 NT (he had actually had a good rookie season); and then we started fooling with him, not to mention injuries; he was another two-draft pick investment...

We drafted really good 3-4 linebackers in Hau'oli Kikaha, Davis Tull and Stephone Anthony; and we had a good spare part in Kasim Edebali...

All that clearly changed this year with Dennis Allen, clearly in charge, and hell-bent to build a 4-3 base defense; like it or not, but there's a clear plan now...

So despite all the "meddling" the past two seasons, we're really only one year into building the 4-3 defense, so expecting things to turn around right away is unrealistic, at least for another year or two...

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

Well for jets Rex is a pretty good guy with defenses, if i am remembering right, pretty good with the ravens

Rob had 1 or 2 top 10 defenses in all his years as a dcoord.

We haven't had all the lineup issues or probs getting people on the field.

I just am not so sure it is Sean's fault. Rob seemed to have these same issues each place he went. I hated the pick, was happy to eat crow in '13, but then it just became a disaster after that.

we will probably know the entire story, but if sean is getting involved he needs to stick to the offense

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

the 43 switch is the key.

a depleted secondary is a killer

on thew bright side the bench is getting a ton of playing time for 2017

Stephone Anthony? trade bait? i am stumped.

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

Defense is still bad but hopefully we get Breaux & Rankins back soon.

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

As far as the offense goes, Pete Carmichael has said in interviews, that the historical pattern of the Saints offense is, either one of two things happens: typically, it's either a 3-and-out, or POINTS. It's been that way for a long time, since he got here. If they can get a couple of first downs, get something moving, it opens up the plays down the field, Drew starts to do his thing, the running game starts tearing off big runs, and it is usually off to the races after that. We've all seen that.

Then, they have occasional lulls where the offense seems to pull a Rip Van Winkle -- it's like they fall asleep, and then suddenly late in the game they will wake up and remember they are awesome. That's also been that way as long as Carmichael's been here, maybe longer.

The question is really WHEN the 3-and-outs happen. Sometimes they happen in the first quarter, and the Saints fall behind and get into a hole. Definitely we have seen that. Sometimes they happen in the second half, like you mentioned. Sometimes they are sprinkled oddly throughout the game, and we don't notice them very much.

But this "3 and out, or points" thing they do, it really is a THING. It is also related to why the Saints have such troubles with ball control -- how many times have you seen them need that one big, long, time-consuming drive at the end of games, to put the thing away, and they somehow don't do it, and give the ball back to the other team with time left on the clock? Many MANY times.

They have had 3-and-out lulls all the time, during games, including in 2009 and 2011 -- but when you have a defense that is SO BAD that the other team scores at will, every time, then NO early lead is safe, no matter how big.

At the end of the day, the defense is still terrible. Even at their most inspired, when they are playing way above their heads, this defense is only mediocre. There is no one on this defense, including the injured players, who keeps opponents awake at night, worrying during the week. They don't disrupt; they don't get turnovers, they don't get pressure. They don't intimidate; they do anything remotely noteworthy at all. (It likely won't get better until we have more of our dead money back, to pay for better players and depth, but that's another thread).

Bottom line, this defense doesn't win games. Drew and the offense bails them out and wins games. Sunday was proof of that.

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

On the 3 and outs also need to look where on the field they occur and what happened on the first play. I'm going to say majority of the time we are backed up on our end of the field and there is usually a penalty to start the drive and put us behind on down and distance. As for DA and the defense it's kind of tough to be hard on him with all the injuries we have right now on D. If we can somehow be 4-4 and get Rankins and Breaux back I think we have a dam good shot to go 10-6.

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

Simply no consistency on the defensive side of the ball.
Revolving door every season and then ALL season.
Consistently on offense: Payton's scheme and Brees making it work.
Duece, Reggie, Sproles, PT, Ingram, Shockey, Graham, Colston, Lance, ...didn't matter...
Payton's scheme with Brees making it work with whatever they had.
Defense not so. It's been a hodge-podge patch work piece of chit since 2006.
The pieces fit pretty good for maybe 4 of those years.
Vilma solidified a decent group until the injuries took him out.
There has been a different leak in the bucket it seems every year.
How many DQs do you try before you get frustrated enough to want to do it yourself?
The tackling and coverage has been equally bad under DA, Ryan, Spags, Williams, ...
At least Williams disguised and masked the deficiencies with pressure.
I'm sure Payton would gladly stay out of it and not even think about it if he could.
When 31 points a week isn't enough, Damn.

Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense
 

Don't fix things that ain't broke....2013 D was solid. Then it got weird alright. 2007 and 2008 are also horrible D years under Payton.