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K Major 12-14-2016 11:36 PM
It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
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Since the start of 2014, only two NFL teams have failed to produce a winning record at any point: the Jacksonville Jaguars and the New Orleans Saints.

And the Saints (5-8) will now be lucky to finish 7-9 for the third straight season after giving their two worst offensive performances of the year in back-to-back losses to the Detroit Lions and Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

That’s the kind of mediocre track record that just got Jeff Fisher fired by the Los Angeles Rams.

I don’t think Saints coach Sean Payton or general manager Mickey Loomis will meet the same fate as Fisher at the end of this season -- and I don’t think they should just yet. I also strongly believe the Saints should hang on to quarterback Drew Brees until they find their own version of Dak Prescott to replace him.

http://a1.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img...40&cquality=40

But I think it’s now “2017 or bust” for all three of them.
New Orleans Saints

No excuses ... get it done.

SmashMouth 12-15-2016 12:14 AM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
Championship!

hagan714 12-15-2016 07:38 AM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
yep some one is reading our stuff

jeanpierre 12-15-2016 09:02 AM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
Yeah, because we're not trying to win a championship every year... :bang:


Then people would think we were the Patriots or something... :doh:


Tripp's right in that the temperature gets turned waaaaay up next season...

halloween 65 12-15-2016 03:27 PM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
If they go I hope the entire D staff goes to fire them all. O-line coach and Carmicheal are worth keeping thats about it. Hire Harbaugh or Cowher, the current trend is D minded head coaches anyway and I for one am tired of below average defenses and would rather have a smash mouth offense that isn't finess.

halloween 65 12-15-2016 04:01 PM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
Another thing I thought about. What happens if we lose our first 4 games next season, all the other teams coaching staff will be in place with little to none worth a crap being available. I'm not good with slim pickings. If we're going in a different direction sooner is better.

neugey 12-15-2016 04:36 PM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by halloween 65 (Post 730344)
Another thing I thought about. What happens if we lose our first 4 games next season, all the other teams coaching staff will be in place with little to none worth a crap being available. I'm not good with slim pickings. If we're going in a different direction sooner is better.
Joe Vitt could have his third stint as interim coach! What could possibly go wrong? *sarcasm*

foreverfan 12-15-2016 04:49 PM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
Now this is a bust and more!!! :D

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3S0rex5WnAg/maxresdefault.jpg

SmashMouth 12-15-2016 05:37 PM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverfan (Post 730350)
Did you say BUST?

http://candylike.com/wp-content/uplo...-ratchford.jpg

:bng:

Danno 12-15-2016 06:56 PM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
BTTT, as hard as it may be...:p

I agree that the freakish amount of injuries this year should give Payton one more season. But 2017 should be sink or swim.

Another year of freakish injuries points to a problem that no other team deals with every year. Thats gotta be a problem with the staff.

About the only injury we should accept as an excuse for a 2017 failure is if Brees misses most of the season, and even that is debatable.

I think most of us if in Tom Benson's shoes would absolutely tell Sean that 2017 is absolutely playoffs or bust. I don't think there's any doubt.

saintsfan1976 12-15-2016 08:22 PM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
Give Brees more time in the pocket.

Give opposing QBs less time in the pocket.

Anything we do outside of improving those areas is a waste.

foreverfan 12-15-2016 09:28 PM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 730354)
I worried... it seems we have too many gay Saints fans. :hallucinate:

http://www.thenug.com/sites/default/...vzIQHug6C1.gif

papz 12-16-2016 08:03 AM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
2017?

A day late a dollar short.

SaintsBro 12-16-2016 09:04 AM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
I don't know why people are even getting worked up about it -- Benson and his team have made it abundantly clear by their actions that the verdict on the Payton/Loomis/Brees era, and the next decisions or next future direction for the Saints, will be a matter for the next future Saints administration to handle. In the meantime it's "Ladies and gentlemen please direct your attention to the video screens, for another 2009 highlight reel and some historic plays of Saints playoff games from the 2000 season."

neugey 12-16-2016 09:12 AM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintsBro (Post 730396)
I don't know why people are even getting worked up about it -- Benson and his team have made it abundantly clear by their actions that the verdict on the Payton/Loomis/Brees era, and the next decisions or next future direction for the Saints, will be a matter for the next future Saints administration to handle. In the meantime it's "Ladies and gentlemen please direct your attention to the video screens, for another 2009 highlight reel and some historic plays of Saints playoff games from the 2000 season."
Ugh you could be right. Break out the South Park Member-berries.

Rugby Saint II 12-16-2016 12:52 PM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
Payton thinks he can evaluate defensive talent.......he can't!!! He has a tendency to gamble on players in free agency and the draft. He needs a handler. So does Loomis. He needs to be a VP and find someone to help the defensive minded Ireland with good offensive talent evaluation talent.

The problem is Payton won't hand over power to anyone else. His ego won't let him. Loomis is just a bean counter and yeas man to Payton. They both need to get input elsewhere and get a new perspective like we did with Ireland. Our drafts have been good defensively since he arrived.

Injuries derailed our season and we had no depth to take the filed behind them. Good drafting fixes that. So does good free agent moves. Maybe we need a new pro scout. I've also been wondering if Payton's conditioning workout that got him in shape is actually good for the team?

rbertoni 12-16-2016 01:27 PM
It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
The defense is playing better each week, their problem is the offensive line. Armstead is a beast put can't stay healthy for two consecutive games and Peat is a disaster. Unger is their only starter they have on the roster.


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K Major 12-16-2016 03:38 PM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbertoni (Post 730409)
The defense is playing better each week, their problem is the offensive line. Armstead is a beast put can't stay healthy for two consecutive games and Peat is a disaster. Unger is their only starter they have on the roster.


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Rbertoni,

Welcome to the Black and Gold :bng:

Danno 12-16-2016 05:44 PM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbertoni (Post 730409)
The defense is playing better each week, their problem is the offensive line. Armstead is a beast put can't stay healthy for two consecutive games and Peat is a disaster. Unger is their only starter they have on the roster.


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Disagree, Peat has looked pretty good at times on the left side, Strief may be a top 5 OT in the NFL, and Evans played respectable this year after looking spent last year.

We have 8 losses, and 6 were on the defense or special teams IMO.

But I will agree that our guards need some serious upgrading, and we need a replacement for an aging Strief. His play is bound to start declining eventually.

Quote:
NFL's best, worst O-lines: Where do Cowboys and Seahawks rank?

It's a classic football precept: Great teams build up front. It's not quite true -- let's be honest, the best thing you can have is a good quarterback -- but good blocking is an important part of a strong NFL offense. The skill players get the headlines and the fantasy football numbers, but offensive linemen break open those big holes for your running backs and keep your quarterback upright so he can throw deep....

To measure the best and worst lines of 2016, I averaged each team's rank in five categories:

1. Adjusted line yards (ALY): A Football Outsiders' metric that splits value between the blocking and the back based on the length of the run, adjusted for situation and opponent.
2. Stuffed rate: How often running backs are stuffed for a loss or no gain, the most blocking-dependent part of ALY.
3. Adjusted sack rate (ASR): Sacks (and intentional groundings) per pass play, adjusted for situation and opponent.
4. Pressure rate: How often the quarterback is under duress, including sacks and hurries, according to ESPN Stats & Information charting.
5. Penalties: per game by offensive linemen (including declined and offsetting).

Adjusted line yards were weighted at 150 percent, while penalties were weighted at just 50 percent. Further explanation of the first three categories, with updated numbers, can be found here.

There are a couple of big surprises from these metrics. One of the Thursday night teams doesn't rank near the bottom of the league. And even more surprising, Dallas does not rank at the top of the league. Of course, one set of numbers does not prove the Cowboys don't have the most productive line in the league. It does, however, suggest we're not doing enough to recognize the lines that rank ahead of them.

If you're curious about how all the teams stack up, I put a table ranking them from 1-32 after write-ups for the five best and worst offensive lines.

THE TOP FIVE


1. New Orleans Saints

The Saints are sixth in offensive DVOA, and the offensive line is a big reason why. It's a bit of a surprising performance from a group of players who aren't too well-known. Left tackle Terron Armstead has missed half the season with injuries, forcing 2015 first-round pick Andrus Peat to rotate between left tackle and left guard. Most observers thought veteran Jahri Evans looked over the hill when he couldn't make the Seattle roster in preseason, but he returned to the Saints and slotted right back into his old right guard spot.

Right tackle Zach Strief has developed into a strong run-blocker but has yet to make a Pro Bowl. Center Max Unger, who came over from Seattle in the Jimmy Graham trade, completes the starting five.

The Saints are dead last in pressure allowed, according to ESPN Stats & Info charting, and they are fifth in adjusted sack rate. Sure, part of the reason the Saints do so well in pass-blocking metrics is that Drew Brees is so good at avoiding sacks and doesn't run into his own pressure. But that doesn't explain why the Saints lead the league in adjusted line yards, or why they've had runners stuffed for a loss or no gain only 14 percent of the time. New Orleans is even tied for the fewest number of penalties by offensive linemen (24).
NFL's best, worst offensive lines - 2016

dizzle88 12-16-2016 05:53 PM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 730422)
Disagree, Peat has looked pretty good at times on the left side, Strief may be a top 5 OT in the NFL, and Evans played respectable this year after looking spent last year.

We have 8 losses, and 6 were on the defense or special teams IMO.

But I will agree that our guards need some serious upgrading, and we need a replacement for an aging Strief. His play is bound to start declining eventually.
I'd say the losses to Denver, Carolina, KC, Tampa and Detroit were all on the offense.

All those games the offense had multiple turnovers and put the D in horrendous positions, which in all fairness the D did well to only allow the points they did.

Denver game - 4 offensive turnovers
KC - 2 turnovers
Tampa - 3 interceptions
Detroit - 3 interceptions
Carolina - 2 turnovers

rbertoni 12-17-2016 05:26 PM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
Because Brees has no time the past two weeks. The offensive line is easy overrated because of Bees and his ability to get rid of the football quick. Peat started to look good a few games but is back to being beaten like a drum every second or third play. We need a good, consistent o line to make this team a contender again.


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NOLA54 12-17-2016 08:25 PM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
When Drew retires is when S.P. will leave. Until then grin and bare it through clinched teeth.

caddieman 12-18-2016 09:13 AM
Re: It's now 2017 or bust for Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 730354)
GA girls I bet!........lol.


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