Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

Every game for the foreseeable future is sold out for the Saints, win or lose. As for loss of prime time games and/or popularity affecting the bottom line, you forget that the NFL uses a profit sharing approach. The Cleveland Browns get an equal share of the league wide profits gained from sources such as television contracts and merchandise sales, as does the New England Patriots. A team's record can only affect a team's income if butts are not in the seat and that is only a small percentage of the overall income.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

He has as much said the exact same thing, as has Bill Cowher, although Cowher has even more reason to remain on the set.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

You also have to factor in all of the endorsement deals he gets these days. An NFL head coach does not have the time to spend with those. He is probably making several million more per year on those alone.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

Maybe, but the revenue generated purely from ticket sales is what 120 million-150 million per year. I mean yeah if half the tickets didn't sell that would be something, but 10-20% although noticeable wouldn't make or break a team financially. Wouldn't help, obviously, but certainly wouldn't destroy them. At the end of the day when you keep churning 7-9, I don't know if it is purely revenue motivated, but you're not going to be coach anymore.

This idea that we don't know what's on the other side, that is true, but we didn't know what was on the other side when we got SP. The idea is that you do your best to select the right person and hope he wins you some games.

SP is going to be here next year, barrring some miracle, I hope we are 12-4. If we are back to 7-9, then damn how many times until you learn your lesson. To keep saying that we don't know what is on the other side and that somehow should paralyze ourselves with fear into eternal mediocrity is nonsense. Pure rubbish.

And no offense AG, but I called 5-11 to 7-9 while we were in preseason, and you kept coming on here throwing temper tantrums at people. I am not really going to hear much of what you have to say on this subject simply because you have done this before, with other topics (involving the team), and been wrong.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

I'm still counting on 8-8 which could be enough to make the playoffs. But, before the season I felt the Saints easily had enough talent to win 12 games. If they could have avoided the rash of injuries that started before the season got under way I don't believe any of this talk would be circulating. Three years ago the problem was with the defense. The same problem last season. This year the injury bug. If the problem had been the offense I could understand the total blame on Payton, but I just can't see it in these cases at all.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

no sir, not at all. just passing on the report.

wonder how true this new report is on SP's "genuine interest" in the LA job

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

Two words: Click Bait.

It quotes an NFL Network article from Rapaport, who like LaCanfora cannot tell the difference between a hole in their backside and a hole in the ground.

SFIAH

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

I don't trust either of those guys. I wouldn't mind if he chose to go. Again, I think Sean can still coach, Just think he needs to get re-energized. I wouldn't mind seeing Shan from the Falcons, look at what that dude has done down there with that offense. With our weapons, we wouldn't miss a beat

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

Always was, always will be: The offense can win some games, but it's the defense that takes home the rings...

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

our defense has been good enough for us to have won more than we have, IMHO, do you agree?

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

All these people that ask "Who would you get to replace him?" As if SP is the only coach that's qualified. I'll post these facts again, and then you tell me WHY it's not a valid argument to have this discussion.

- 3 consecutive 0-3 starts
- 3 consecutive non-winning seasons
- Last time the team was even above .500 was back in 2013
- Defense ranked either dead last or towards the bottom for the last 3 years
- Worst ranked Special Teams unit
- Won't get rid of his cronies McMahon, Vitt & Johnson

There are a lot of unknowns out there as far as coaching candidates go. But we already know what we have w SP. I think his fire has gone out in in NOLA. Maybe he just needs a change to get relit like our team does.



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Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

Just can't argue with these things anymore either. What'sworse is our cap is maxed out while doing this terrible.

Forgot to include falling down all over ourselves during our biggest games this season

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

I wouldn't mind Harbaugh or Gruden.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

I notice that you still didn't answer the initial question. It really doesn't matter what Payton has or has not done. All that matters is who specifically can you bring into this organization in its current state and get significantly better production in a short time frame.

It's not a question of if Payton is qualified. It is a question of who might be qualified and why.

And please don't bother is unrealistic "pie in the sky" choices. Specifically: Gruden, Harbaugh, and Cowher. As has been pointed out before, but I'll repeat again, that all three essentially have their dream job. And more specifically Gruden and Cowher have a Super Bowl winning legacy to protect. Also specifically both of them have been out of football for many many years. As for Harbaugh, he's making $8 million a year and is more celebrated in Ann Arbor than the King of Bacchus at Mardi Gras.

And I just want to point out that the San Francisco 49ers made exactly the same stupid mistake with Harbaugh that many are proposing with Payton now. 1-13 and looking pitiful.

I'm not making the argument that only Payton is the solution. However, I'm going to continue to push back that the solution is to get rid of him for an option that is unknown or is made of unobtainium.

So please be specific on who you would staff with, excluding the three above (or any other ex-coach TV personality), and why staffing with that person is an improvement over Payton.

SFIAH

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

I am going to disagree here. You're fine to push this agenda, but for those that want SP gone it isn't our job to satisfy your requirement for suitable candidates. SP has us stuck in mediocrity with a maxed out budget. I don't need to know who his replacement will be, and I don't necessarily need to know he will turn things around quickly. I need someone to come in and make PROGRESS. We are not making progress. Our win/loss record is stuck in automatic, and more than that each season is pretty much playing out like we are stuck in a nasty real life version of DeJa Vu. I also would not mind trying Shanny from the Falcons

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

Of course it is. This contingent wants to have Payton gone so the team can get better. It's completely reasonable to ask who might reasonable be able to do that and who realistically is available.

Just like there are really not 32 franchise QBs in the NFL, there are very few proven SuperBowl winning coaches. So getting rid of one needs both a justification (which I can agree is reasonable) and a plan. The latter I haven't seen.

I think it's a stretch to lay the entire budget situation solely on a head coach.

I don't have a problem with progress. I just want to understand what coaches are out there have demonstrated such progress.

BTW I disagree with you a bit on progress. There has been progress this season. While all of the Saints units are still inconsistent, the defense has played well enough this season to reflect a better record than the team currently has. They are by no stretch the 34th out of 32 team unit they were in 2014 and 2015.

I guess I'm just a skeptic. Rarely is the grass greener. Winning in the NFL is difficult. Switching horses and winning is harder.

SFIAH

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

SP was never a HC prior to being with us so the same could have been said of him. I just don't understand the point here. Basically keep 7-9 because it could be worse, no thanks.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

Benson just walked into the SP presser and yelled great coach, great win. He is going no where.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

Just because Benson did that means nothing. I'm personally wondering what Payton will think if this season ends on a sour note. Getting swept by Atlanta, losing on the 10 year anniversary capped by Atlanta winning the sb..............beating Atlanta has been one of Payton's major accolades here. I want to see how he reacts after that. Because I think he might just want to move on.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

Payton not going anywhere

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

I didnt come to this thread to suggest any choices. As a matter of fact, there was no " initial question", as you stated, asking who a replacement should be so maybe you should think before you post. I mean seriously, do you even read the posts?? Maybe if you did, you'd see that all i did was present some valid points as to why SP should move on. I have no idea who we should interview for HC jobs, but that doesn't refute any of the points that I made.

I even went on to say that there might be some unknowns out there that may be qualified for the job. I didnt even mention any of those 3 coaches that you brought up so it sounds like you were just trying to overkill on making your point asking me to be specific. However, just because I don't have a specific replacement in mind doesnt make my points any less valid. If yiu can dispute them, please do so. As a matter of fact, why don't YOU answer MY question and be specific as to why SP should continue as our coach? I'm sure if anyone underperformed at their job for several years in a row like he has, their employer would be asking the same questions eventhough he may not already have a replacement in mind.



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Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

The cap isn't anywhere near to being "maxed out".

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

And that surprises you? For Payton to be fired someone has to fire him. That will never be Benson or Loomis. Everyone needs to learn to accept that fact.It is a waste of time to even talk about replacing Payton.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

And considering your track record on predictions ... :rolleyes:

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

In what way did Payton "underperform"? His offense has been the top ranked over the entire stretch. The defense was horrible two years ago and and he made the move to replace the DC. This year the defense is vastly improved with much of the better talent either on the IR or on the sidelines with injuries. With a healthy squad next season we should be challenging for the fist round bye. Yet you want to throw that out the window. You know that Payton isn't going anywhere because Benson is not an idiot. Accept that fact and move on.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

I'm glad you've been happy watching other teams playing in the post-season other than the Saints. Perhaps you should be the one to move on. You're condescensing posts and the way you talk to people here is pathetic.

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Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

Well, I am not sure it will never happen, but would agree it is not likely right now. He just signed a new contract, but at some point when fan's voices grow loud enough he will go, but let's hope next year we are 12-4 and this is a mute point. No sense in speculating right now, he doesn't appear to be leaving unless he chooses.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

Benson's not completely there.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

"Benson's not completely there."


A judge ruled otherwise.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

This is true.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

"THIS JUST IN" SP has a new strategy for winning it all next year! Paytons "Eaux Neaux! They Gotta Geaux! Do It To Em Wit Voodoo Whilst Sitting on Thy Arse" home study course caused two Franchise QB's to suffer the same "broken fibula" injury!! Pretty certain one was quoted "You may have broken my fibula but I'll be feeling it tomorrow"

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

Of course I do. Posts #6 and #7 of this thread ask this exact question. Your reply "to those who ask the question of who to replace Payton with..."

The implication you make is that getting rid of Payton and replacing him will improve the team. I'm refuting that point. There are several instances where teams have gone though mediocre lulls to suddenly burst on the scene the next year to win the Superbowl. Sean Payton's Saints are an example of this. After the 2008 season, no one would have expected a 13-3 2009 capped with a Championship. With Coughlin before 2007 and 2011 there were calls for his ouster.

You are stating we can do better than the one guy who has actually brought a championship to this organization. How can it be unreasonable to ask who would be better?

Sure. I'll take it year by year:

2012: BG derailed the team for the year.
2013: Payton comes back, fires Spagnolo and hires Ryan. A top 5 defense helps power the team to an 11-5 record and a playoff berth.
2014: injuries, including Brees oblique injury, along with Ryan's overly complicated defensive scheme were all contributors.
2015: Brandon Browner with blame assigned to Payton, Ryan, and Loomis.
2016: Inconsistent but promising. The defense has turned in several admirable performances along with a couple of dogs. The offense is the #1 offense in football, with the problem of not being able to execute consistently, and special teams have given away three games. Inconsistent. And injuries especially in the secondary have plagued the team throughout the year.

We have a blueprint for winning a SuperBowl. Efficient balanced offense. Opportunistic takeaway defense. A reliable kicker who can kick the long ball in clutch situations. A team that can run the ball efficiently and in the clutch. And most importantly limited injuries.

All of these are in sight. I saw most of those elements yesterday.

So in short, Payton has brought us a championship. The team doesn't look like the Brows, 49ers, or Jaguars, and a limited injury season can open the door to a successful 2017.

Most importantly, I know who I have. I have a 10 year track record. It isn't a gamble.

So that's why I'm advocating staying the course.

SFIAH






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Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

oh yes it has been and 1/4 of it is currently sitting unused in dead money. That's atrocious and is not the mark of a well run org.

Excuses coming in 3,2,1..

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

IDT that is the issue. I think he feels we are close and he just paid 45 mil to the guy. He is owed a ton of that 45 still. Plus I believe that Benson believes that, especially because of what Sean did for the org and city. Loyalty. If the trend of the last 3 years continues the noise for his departure will grow and grow, and then Sean will go.

There are some pieces here, let's hope it is headed in the right direction, although the amount of inconsistency leaves you with doubts, or it should.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

You've been nothing wrong about this team and their success. You were calling playoffs, blah blah blah blah. Now I see you're back since the Saints won a game or two. Fair weather fan. The rest of us have been here the entire season. Fans like you come and go. Even though Shrimp was wrong about us winning 7 games, he was fairly accurate about this team, as were the rest of us. 3 years and we have made 0 progress in our win/loss column. It is actually 30% of our cap is in dead money, that is laughable. We're already at 9 million for next year and it hasn't even started.

You're an excuse machine bro- injuries, snow, cold weather, sniffles, ran out of tampons, and on and on and on.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

[/QUOTE]


In 2012 the offense was playing fine without Payton. Brees threw turnovers but I believe it was because of the holdout and Grubbs. However, the defense was bothered by the pending suspensions and the lawsuit that affected the captain......Vilma who was also hurt that year and not on the field for the most part. We won in 2013 in spite of Ryan, it was because we had the dark cloud removed from us and especially the leader of our defense.

While a takeaway defense wins a sb. It's not a requirement to make the playoffs. Bad defenses have made the playoffs and had we so much as had a upright oline for the last three years we would have gotten in with such a bad defense.

I saw something in the game that ticked me off. Right after that Byrd pick, we just ran the ball just like that to get a score? So we only want to attempt to run the ball with a strong defense?

The truth of the matter is we didn't need to wait this long to make the playoffs. SP only wants to have a playoff year when the saints are starting out 10-0 or whatever. I don't respect Payton for these reasons.

Manning's won with four different coaches. If you have a HOF qb it doesn't matter who coaches but we see there that Brees doesn't have thick skin in that department if he needs SP to win.

Tell me, how you cannot be mad at Sean for ruining the chance for Brees to match Montana, Brady, and Aikman. Making Brees and the offense wait to be what it used to be. That's not a coach IMO.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

The question is weather or not it's about the money. When you are worth 45 million is another 10 a big deal? His love for coaching may outweigh the money and free time.

Re: Gruden, Sean Payton, Shaw options for Rams HC position
 

All but $7 million of the dead money rolls off the books after next weekend. That means that means that only 4.24% of the 2017 cap is tied up in dead money. The estimated free cap space for 2017 is over $36 million and that is before roster bonuses are converted and the next Brees extension takes place. Free cap will be approaching $50 million.

You are complaining about something that no longer exists.