Apology
 

If anyone knows me very well, then they know I'm not much into aplogies. But this time I feel very bad for the trouble I caused by suggesting we have a team debate.

I don't feel sorry for coming up with the idea. I feel sorry that JoeSam caught so much heat for it. And I also feel sorry that Halo always catches the ramifications for every problem.

Look, let me tell some of you guys something ...

If ANY of you think JoeSam is playing favorites ... then you are dead WRONG.

I'm the foremost expert here at B&G on JoeSam's editing practices. And I can almost guarantee you that I have received more PMs from JoeSam than anyone else. And JoeSam's PMs weren't to discuss the weather, either.

Quite frankly ... JoeSam has told me on more than one occassion to get my act together or take my BS somewhere else.

But, here's the deal. JoeSam was always right. And I was always wrong. I just couldn't see it clearly at the time because I was so involved in trying to prove my point to whomever I was debating with.

It seems that a few of you have been "edited" by JoeSam and you feel like you've been treated unfairly? I'm sorry some of you feel that way. Over the years I've felt exactly the same way. But, it still doesn't change the fact that I posted some stuff that was CLEARLY against the rules. And what's the moderator's job? To ENFORCE the rules.

Without rules ... what would we have here at B&G? We would have a site that's not worth posting on.

I feel very strongly that B&G is the best site there is. Halo and JoeSam allow a lot of freedom here. I don't think we should abuse that freedom. In the past, I have done exactly that.

I've tried to clean my act up. I'm still not perfect and I still receive a PM from JoeSam and Halo from time to time. I understand that it's nothing personal. I really don't think they give a **** if I post my opinions all day long. They just don't want me to belittle anyone!!!

It really pisses me off that JoeSam has been called to the floor because of his editing. Anyone that's been here very long has the utmost respect for JoeSam. And some of us (myself) knows that without JoeSam that we'd been kicked off of here long ago.

JoeSam has a tough job. It's an unpopular job. I hope JoeSam doesn't change his ways. If anything, I hope Joe will continue to strive to make this a better place. Which is all he's ever done.

I don't know what it is about me and why my posts cause so much trouble. This time it has gone to a whole other level and it's really caused some promblems. I'm going to have to think on this one.

I don't wish to cause guys to leave this board, but at the same time, if some of you are so sensetive, then it might be you that has the problem.

In any event, I hope no one leaves because I believe all of you bring a lot to the board.

Apology
 

It takes a big man Gumbo, a big man...........

Apology
 

I\'m not certain what\'s happened recently. I don\'t post here nearly as often as the regulars do. I read the boards far more often than I post, but even with that time added in - I consider myself a part-time member.

I have noticed lately that there has been a \"relaxation\" in the rules regarding what I deem to be personal attacks. What I mean is people calling other people\'s opinions \"stupid\" or \"ignorant\"; accusing them of not knowing anything about football... stuff like that. These attacks have not come from Gumbo, but rather from other people who appear to feel passionately about their opinions but are seemingly not very good at dealing with people who disagree with those opinions.

If JoeSam (whom I admire greatly for his persistent pursuit of civilized discourse) has begun policing those individual\'s postings; kudos to JoeSam. I confess I\'ve read the board less lately because of what I perceived to be a change in the atmosphere on this board. I certainly hope that if JoeSam made efforts to bring the board back to what it was, he is not suffering ANY repercussions for his actions.

Just my opinion.

Apology
 

good word gumbo. i have wondered to myself sometimes if you post with the purpose of stirring up sh!t and pissing people off more than sincerely addressing the issues. i have wondered but never really come to that conclusion. some people have a knack for just striking others the wrong way, seeming arrrogant, or whatever with no thought or intention of being that way whatsoever. i think you, like almost all here, are simply a diehard commited and passionate fan. that is what this site is about, not the art of debate. some enjoy the banter or do it better than others. as stated by many over again there is no requirement for anyone to enter any thread which they deem bullsh!t in any form (someone arguing for the sake of arguing, misconstrued facts, etc.) i am however saddened that some are offended and leave whether it is justified or not, especially if they have been ongoing contributors for years. if there was a cyber-bar we could pull up to and share a drink i think most here would realize we all are a lot closer than we are further from each other in our viewpoints. hell, ya have some kinda gris-gris wierdness to be a saints fan forever.

i think there is real fan tension after this 32-32 run with no playoffs. if they could have snuck in the playoffs last year hopes would have been a little more realized. if the final 4 games would have left the record at 4-12 rather than 8-8 we could have been salivating about a number 2-4 pick and how the new coach was gonna rebuild. i pray this season goes closer to 12-4 or 4-12 either way than another schizo performance ending with more mediocrity.

so to you and all i say, don\'t sweat it. trudge on. take a breather now n then as ya need to. it is only a internet message board that has less than microscopic impact to the realities of what happens with the saints no matter how much we wish otherwise.

aaron brooks does suck too LOL!

Apology
 

I hope that brings gatorman back.

Apology
 

me too...but honestly man I think like this: we are all saints fans regardless of why..and we all have our own outlook on things-wo I don\'t take anything really that personal and honestly don\'t mean for anything to be personal (even though we have had snips-and for that I\'m sorry as well)...as far as I know you are haslett or benson (or brooks ;) ) --the only thing that ever really bothers me is when people use their anomonity (sp?) to be an @$$ .... which I don\'t feel you\'ve ever done.

shalom...like the man said-we all gotta be a little touched to still be a saints fan..

Apology
 

First, I too would like to say that I hope no one leaves. I would also like to apologize for any role I may have had in upsetting anyone.

Second, as FF points out, there was a slight change in atmosphere around here, but my feeling is that it was around the time right before the start of FA. I believe it is largely because there wasn\'t too much to discuss that could be productive - aside from dwelling on the previous year, badmouthing Benson, AB, and the like. It is my personal opinion that things had really started back on track (at least until yesterday). Either way, I believe everything is getting back to usual around here, and, for that, I\'m glad.

Apology
 

I, too, do not wish anyone to leave. I feel that this board is better with more participation rather than less. Thus, my opinion that a debate team be formed which excluded others from participation on that thread is not necessary or beneficial. I was not insulted or anything, but I do not believe that would be helpful to the board or particularly interesting since most of the best threads are spontaneous.

As for your apology, Billy, it\'s got to be one of the worst of all time apologies. 3 sentences of I FEEL bad or sorry out of 39 seems a bit slim on the emotion. Anyway, I don\'t think you should apologize anyway. What did you do wrong? You suggested something that some people were against. Big deal.

I hope Joe knows that I like him and enjoy his posts as much as anyone else\'s on this board. But at the same time, I\'m not going to sugar coat when he does something I think is wrong. Yesterday, Joe closed a thread because of excess \"whining\". I don\'t remember that being in the rules. The rules say we can talk about football. If you\'re sick of reading about AB, don\'t read the post. A few weeks/months back AB thrads were threatened to be locked because people felt like there were too many of them. That\'s a travesty and not in the forum rules anywhere.

The bottomline about people leaving cuz they\'re mad is good ridance. If Gator had a problem with Joe, then he should have went to Halo. If he had a problem with being personally attacked, he should have went to Halo. Instead, he got indignant and felt the need to tell us he\'s leaving and not coming back. Boo hoo. Sometimes I wonder whether this is a football site or a soap opera.

[Edited on 29/3/2005 by ScottyRo]

Apology
 

ScottyRo --

My apology was very sincere. I apologized not for starting the thread, but rather the problems that it caused. I really didn\'t feel sorry for those who got offended, but for those who had to deal with those problems. (JoeSam and Halo)

Furthermore, ScottyRo, while I respect your opinion ... I do not agree with it.

Rules do not HAVE to be broken for a moderator to \"lock\" a thread. Sometimes the moderators can see it\'s heading for trouble and \"lock\" the thread before it happens. Which, IMHO, is very WISE. And Ray Charles could see that thread was headed in bad places. I commend JoeSam for locking the thread and Halo for moving it. And, hell, it was MY thread. If I didn\'t get offennded then I don\'t think anyone else should.

Bottom line: We can question the mods all day long. But, bashing the mods on the forum is one of the worst things a member can do.

And, yes ... I have done it in the past. It was wrong for me to have done it then and it\'s wrong for anyone to do it now. I should have been banned for doing it.

This board could be better. I\'m going to ask that the mods start with me. If I break any rules I ask the mods to edit my posts or handle it any way they see fit.

If I can\'t be mature enough to state my opinions without insulting anyone, then I need to be edited.



[Edited on 29/3/2005 by GumboBC]

Apology
 

People saying that they feel insulted by a suggestion is a bad place? I\'ve seen direct insults get ignored by mods. Joe locked a thread because he was tired of it, not because it was breaking rules. To go a step further and say it\'s ok for him to lock a thread that is just \"heading\" in a bad direction is a bit too Orwellian for me. (For you younger lads, think Minority Report.)

For the record, I don\'t consider myself bashing a moderator by making these statements. I\'m just pointing out what i see as an error in judgment.

Apology
 

Hey Gumbo, I hope I did\'nt suggest in anyway that Joe was being unfair. I have found, as you stated that in the past he has been nothing but!

I just hope Gatorman does\'nt leave. Cuz as everyone knows I am a sunshiner and Gatorman was the person that made me think about the darkside most of all and we need that at OUR site or all is lost!

Thanks G for taking the right approach, a man is a man only if he acts that way!

You da man!

:yourock:

Apology
 

Scotty --

Man, JoeSam isn\'t always on this board and even if he was, I don\'t expect him to be perfect.

You guys are preaching to the choir trying to convince me of some of this stuff. . JoeSam has edited me more than anyone else.

I used to think JoeSam had it in for me and that he picked on me unfairly. I used to think he let other members slide and just had it in for me.

Think about this: JoeSam doesn\'t want to edit posts. And he does let some things slide. Mainly because I think he wants to give us a chance to clean it up without him having to get involved. And when that doesn\'t happen then JoeSam has to step in a make a judgement call.

I really wouldn\'t want his job. I think instead of bashing JoeSam we should all take a look at ourselves.

This is really not the place to discuss this subject. I\'ve probably said too much already and probably shouldn\'t have started this thread to begin with.

I think we\'ve both spoken our peace.

Apology
 

I once held the same opinion Scotty, but being on the other side of the fence has taught me that, if anything, Halo and Joe try their best to leave things alone and only wade in begrudgingly when they have to. The free reign granted here is anything but Big Brother.

I will admit that I am not a very good Mod. I start riots more than I break them up. More importantly, I know the value of Joe, b/c I certainly don\'t want to change. I don\'t want to have to edit others\' posts. I don\'t want to have to be a policeman. I know that other mods share this view. Joe is the guy who deals with 80% or more of the BS (along with Halo). If you feel that his application of the rules is Orwellian, well, you\'re entitled to your opinion. From where I\'m standing, it\'s hard not to say that if the rest of us (me included) would just behave ourselves, Joe wouldn\'t have to censor anyone.

Apology
 

For the record: I\'ll never consider WhoDat a moderator. :D

That chump ... what the hell does he know about moderating? LOL

Just messin\' with ya WhoDat ...

PS - WhoDat is my dad and I\'m secretly in love with Aaron Brooks. How\'s that for moderating, punk!?!?! LOL ;)

[Edited on 29/3/2005 by WhoDat]

Apology
 

Billy you just got the waters calmed and you are already starting more @@it. LOL

You are too damn funny dude. The next time I come back home I\'ve got to meet you guys.

:salute:

Apology
 

LMAO ..

Hey, I\'m an emotional guy. What can I say?!

If only some of you knew how much JoeSam and I have battled it out.

You don\'t get anymore fair than JoeSam and Halo.

I\'ve been to the other Saints\' boards. There ain\'t nearly as much freedom there. There ain\'t nearly as much intelligent conversation there.

But, there\'s a lot of articles there ... :D

Apology
 

You go Gumbo!!!

:fanclub: :fanclub: :fanclub: :fanclub: :fanclub:

Apology
 

Again, to set the record straight I don\'t believe I am bashing Joe. I think he made an error in judgment. That\'s nothing against him cuz we all make errors.

My point was that he didn\'t apply the rules at all. He closed a thread because he was \"tired\" of the \"whining\". Gumbo said this was ok because he knew that discussion was headed to a bad place. THAT is censoring what we might say rather than what we did say and not in the rules.

The thing is, I have told Joe before when I thought he was wrong. If I were a mod and did something wrong or was too hard on someone, I\'d expect the same from others. Joe isn\'t a little girl that can\'t take a bit of criticism. I know he recognizes the value of differing opinions and isn\'t gonna run off crying that he ain\'t coming back because I thought he was wrong.

What makes this a great site is that we can say pretty much anything (most of the time). We know that if we don\'t like something, it will be tended to and not ignored.

Apology
 

Just so everyone will know. I did what I did yesterday for one reason. If a member or members won\'t listen to a warning and continue to stir a situation to the point of boil over, I will lock a thread everytime! I get no enjoyment from editing anyones post. To me being a moderator isn\'t fun at all, there are times when I wish I had never agreed to do it in the first place. It would be a lot easier to just sit back and watch everyone go at it with someone else trying to get people to act like grown ups. I don\'t like some of the things I feel like I have to do to keep the peace in this forum but it has to be done or there will be no forum.

I guess I take it on myself to do most of the policing on this board, so none of the others will have to put up with it. It\'s not fun, that I can promise you. If it were fun we\'d have a line a mile long wanting to be moderators. I have yet to see that happen.

Yes, I do make mistakes. However, I do not think yesterday was one of them. My mistake yesterday was the wording that I used. If it happened again, I\'d do the same thing. I just wouldn\'t say, I locked it because I was sick of the whineing.

So, just so ya\'ll will know, I\'m not mad at anybody, and I do appreciate the kind words said about me from those that did.

For those of you that think I\'m, doing a poor job, you too can be a moderator, just be careful what you ask for. You might not like it.

Apology
 

You know there is some censorship always at some point. I think Joe felt like I did that people were getting their feathers all ruffled over nothing and the thread was turning bad. It\'s like the Bush doctrine- close the thread now before it gets bad.

Scotty you have every right to say what you do and we take it all into account. You and I have bounced back and forth on things but that\'s what makes this fun. Some people just can\'t handle it and it gets too personal and they get all bent out of shape.

What people don\'t have a right to do is bash the site and the people who try to make it work in their spare time, without pay, so everyone can have fun. The site is free, if it were a pay site and people contributed then they could have more to say, but if you\'ll notice even at saintsreport, there are more rules in an environment like that than even here.

So what I\'m saying is I appreciate you Scotty, and that goes for the rest of the members. We don\'t want to see anybody go. But with how we let a lot slide here, if you are offended and feel you have to leave then go, but please check yourself at the door to see what\'s going on inside yourself before blaming us.

Apology
 

Hey Joe, I respect the job that youand all the moderators do and to that end I would be willing to be a moderator if you guys need help and I know what I ask for.

I WAS NOT trying to say you were unfair. Hey you are one of the only people that have kept me coming back.

This is my home and I will be here forever, no matter what.

It\'s like family, you argue but you always come back for more.

Apology
 

Wow, never really have volunteers. I\'ll talk to the other mods and we\'ll see. Just remember that the pay isn\'t great, and you will not be seing the world, nor will the pretty babes be at the office... unless you think GumboBC is cute.

Apology
 

Hey Halo, I have already seen the world, the US Marines for alot of years and my wife takes care of the pretty babe thing. She does things that none of the other women in my life would think of doing! I just want this to be the BEST SAINTS SITE EVER!!!!

Even when I am not posting, I am reading. I am always here anyway. If you need the help take it, but I will still post like everyone as always so you guys will still have to deal with me @@IT!!
Calgon take me away!!

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

Apology
 

Hey Joe,

If you\'re ever weary, let me know. I have no problems with the mod responsibilities, I always seem to come in at the tail end of everything. ;)

Apology
 

Sometimes it\'s good to be on the tailend BB.

:yes:

Apology
 

Problem is, BnB is usually the catcher, not the pitcher. :o

LMAO.

Breath big guy... breath...

Apology
 

Yeah, just ask WhoDat\'s sister about.....

You know what? The same joke can get old...kinda like your bit. ;)

Apology
 

There was something about a sheep, too...

BTW - BnB\'s sig is the funniest yet ... sorry papz (since we\'re all saying our sorries) ;)


[Edited on 30/3/2005 by mutineer10]

Apology
 

I really don\'t care who is pitching or catching! I do nothing but pitch and that\'s all I have to say about that!!!!!

Apology
 

Like reading an apology from a serial killer .... ;)

Apology
 

Isn\'t that what this debate thing is all about...proving your point....trying to outdo whodat and be declared the winner. I don\'t know why you don\'t just give it a rest. You can debate until you are blue in the face, but nobody who has negative feelings regarding AB is going to change their feelings about AB unless he does something on the playing field to change it. There is no way in heck that you can debate me into thinking he is something more than what I see with my own two eyes.

Apology
 

Never thought I\'d see the day. Sally! LOL. ;)


It\'s a sad day in BnG history when you can\'t even get BnB to throw a quip back at you. :(