What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

Article by Mike Triplett on ESPN, I certainly agree with the following piece;

Ryan accused Payton and Loomis, in part, of ruining a good thing in 2014 by trying to mimic what the Seattle Seahawks were doing after the Saints had a good defense in 2013 (swapping out Jenkins for Byrd in free agency and drafting Stanley Jean-Baptiste in the second round in 2014, among other failed moves). But Payton ultimately fired Ryan during the 2015 season because his defense was too undisciplined and was plagued by assignment, alignment and substitution errors

What's behind the downfall of the New Orleans Saints' defense - New Orleans Saints Blog- ESPN

Payton has his hand in the defensive playbook far too much, he can't even field a good offense anymore because his play calls are exactly the same and he can't admit AP is not a good fit for our offense.

Edit - I find it funny that it says "Rob Ryan was fired as he defense was too undisciplined and was plagued by assignment and substitution errors.

So our defense had 10 men on the field on it's very first snap, blew coverages left, right and centre for 2 straight games and had 12 men on the field the last game.

So is it really Rob Ryans D that is too undisciplined, or is it once again Sean Payton?

Seriously, what has changed?

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

The culture.

Sean Payton has changed just about every aspect of the defense on several occasions. Scheme, player personnel, coaches etc.

We are still failing.

IMO there is not a lot of accountability. Specifically on defense. Circle back to culture. Sean Payton calls out our corner (Delvin Breaux), & to some extent threatens a trade. All because he wasn't willing to play on a fractured/broken leg.

What player and/or players are gonna lay it on the line when they witness that?? Did any of you get a chance to watch the 49ers vs Rams game? 49ers have been in a similar position to what we have been last two games. Even with Hoyer at QB, they went "hurry up", on 4th downs. I still saw URGENCY and BELIEF that they could win. To me, it's about pride and culture. I don't see that with the Saints right now. What happened to that killer instinct to destroy your opponent on offense?

Lack of communication on defense, going through the motions, giving up 7 yards a play, Sean not listening to feed back from players, WR's running up the middle WIDE HIGH SCHOOL OPEN. We looked like a team who gave up by the third quarter vs NE.

The culture starts at the TOP. When you think of the Saints and their past success, it's Sean Payton. He's our face of New Orleans & this football team.

Only my opinion here but it's team culture.

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

And essentially, we're seeing the Saints go through the difficult process of getting all that merde out of the system...

http://blackandgold.com/u/5271-albums105-picture651.jpg

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

Coaching. Scheme. Lack of talent. Experience. No mean MOFO's.

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

Nothing seems to be revitalizing Sean. We are making old mistakes with new personnel and making new mistakes with old personnel. Everything else from there trickles down.

Now granted if the Saints have a major and legit turnaround, my opinion of Sean will change. But based on what I'm seeing, I'm doubtful that it can occur.

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

Definately the coaching. We haven't had a decent or good D since SMH Greg Williams!!!

I think we are headed in the right direction with the draft the past two seasons but we need coaches who can motivate and teach. Dennis Allen apparently is worse than Ryan at this point with the last place D in the league yet again.

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

too many DC and bouncing from 43 to 34 and back to 43 yet again.

That is the main issue

hard to evaluate talent when it turns into square peg round hole ideology every few years.

sit tight and build one system.

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

Exactly, yet several people around here are calling for yet another change.

:rolleyes:

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

It's very simple, we focus on the wrong positions.

The mind set has been to have a great secondary, when in reality it's the front 7 that matters most.

Payton in general has been to focused on skill players and it leads to us having little protection for Drew and no pass rush on D.

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

I think that is because Allens system has no proof that it has ever worked, whereas Rob Ryans D worked phenomenally until Payton got a boner over Seattle.

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

Have to stick with a D plan for years. Never going to work in this format. Yes the D sucks but stick with this plan for a few years. It will get better. Rip it up and we are right back where we started. This recent shred though was needed. A good reset. Stick with it. It's going to improve. I bet this week we start seeing some improvement. Probably still lose but I think it will be better as we go.

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

I don't envision it getting better this week with our best CB out, we have to rely on PJ, Harris and crawley all game. Good lord...

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

We still haven't found that player on the D that takes what I call
the Field General role. Like Vilma who was able to audible and shift
players on the run.

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

Ya never know. I remember that little CB we had Thomas that schooled Randy Moss. Dude was like 5'8" I believe. He held his own when nobody gave him a chance. It can be done. These guys are pros. Might need a little luck but it can be done but they have to start gelling. I'm seeing free lancing out there and little to no discipline. They don't trust each other.

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

Klein could be that guy for us, but Payton and Dennis Allen are light years behind Ron Rivera and his staff.

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

No, Ryan's system wasn't fully implemented until his second year. The first year he used a very vanilla version of the read and react, just like he did in his successful first year in Dallas. When he fully implemented in both locations the players looked lost.

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

The only defensive change that I want is a competitive defense again. One that we haven't had in a while. I really don't care who the DL coach, DB coach, LB coach or what sonofa*****ing DC we have. They could keep the coaches we have or go out and hire a McDonald's employee for all I give a hell. Put a hat and a headset on a damn watermelon and sit it on the sidelines and let it call plays for all I give a ****. I just want a defense that isn't giving up 500 yards a game!

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

Be patient. Things will get better.

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

Spags is a great 43 coach and the saints should have kept him, let him do his thing before getting cute and bringing in ..... gulp .... Rob Ryan

The pats laid the out the blue print to beat Robs defense year one and from that game on teams used it and won. Rob had no answers because he was not good at change on or off the feild. So the defense was beatable long before Seattle.

Robs ego is his own worse enemy. He can not win the big game no matter how good the offense is. He leaves teams in complete rebuilding mode on Defense. That has always been Robs MO. Rob Suxed in Dallas. Rob Suxed in New Orleans. Rob Suxed in Buffalo. Rob is media hype riding on the coat tails of his dad and his brother to millions of dollars. Rob should have never been given another shot at being a DC. God help the next team that makes this mistake again. Leave him as an assistant were he belongs. Under a DC thumb

Never liked Rob and never bought into him as the answer. Always knew it was a down hill slide before he signed that contract.

Ok I feel better now that my Rob rant is done

Rebuilding is were we are today. Back to a 43 defense Spags was running and trying to erase Rob completely. DA is in year two of cleaning up Robs mess. Same place Dallas was when Rob left and Buffalo is thanking God Rob was not around long enough to cause that much damage. Shame all that 43 talent is no longer around.

Now as far as SP goes and I know people disagree with me here, in the draft system the DC has a grand plan and an idea of what players best fit that dream. The DC will pound the table for those players. SP has to buy into it and go with the pick. The GM has the final veto power. So they do not get away with blame

But I put pick blame squarely on the DC. It is the DC I tar and feather and chase out of town on a rail

Then there is the long list of talent we let go with while Rob was DC. The last of the long list of bone head moves while Rob was at the helm of the defense was Akiem Hicks. Boy we could use him today

I am not thrilled with some picks already by DA. But they have their rookie contract to get it done. I do like the veteran FA signing he has done so far.

So give DA at least the length of a rookie contract to correct this mess.

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

Still a lot of excuses.

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

Sean sitting everyone on the team so he can use the ready made excuse of injuries...again. God he is so awful as a HC

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

And that will continue from some who do not accept reality. it went on during the off-season about injuries being the problem and how that wouldn't happen.i cautioned that those players have injury history and should not be counted on. It will continue to be the excuse for this year's failures. They tried to use injuries as an excuse for the patties thumping, completely ignoring their key injuries, lol.

Re: What has led to the defensive downfall?
 

Time to institute the 3 -3 -3 -2!
The D doesn't work because the earth'gravitational pull increases by a factor of 2 every time they are on the field! I saw a special on "Gravity, Boobs and Kittens" on the internet!