The Run vs Pass?
 

It seems we're in for a year where the Saints have geared themselves to be a run dominant team. Deuce will be the go to guy and adding Smith was a nice pick up. This begs to ask the Question, which is this team best geared for? The run or the pass.

I know a lot will argue that the ball is in the QB's hands, so when you opt to be a run oriented team, you are taking that away from the QB and giving it to the Ball carrier, in this case Deuce. I know you need both to win, but what if we focused more on a run and gun offense like the Rams and just aired it out there letting our speedy receivers have a chance? Wouldn't we be better off? Are we still afraid of leaving the defense on the field, therefore by running the ball we keep the offense out longer?

With A Pass oriented game we leave the game mostly in the hands of Brooks, Horn, and Stallworth. Running it we leave it with Deuce, Stecker, Smith and the O line. Which do you prefer?

The Run vs Pass?
 

We do not have an O-line to run the Ram-like offense. their routes are down the field(skinny posts and 15 yd digs) which our O-line would get AB killed!!!!

The Run vs Pass?
 

Run, run, run. When that dosen\'t work anymore, then you pass.

The Run vs Pass?
 

That is a good question Stall.

I think that our O-Line is better suited to play the run, as FV points out. Our run pass distributions was something like 47/53 run to pass last year, so gearing up for the run may mean something like making it 53/47 instead.

Another advantage of the run first strategy is this: no more stupid 2TE set. Duece has said he doesn\'t like it, our TE\'s weren\'t threatening enough to catch a pass to make the distraction sufficient, and our beast of a FB can be in the game a lot more.

I am not opposed to having our QB do a little less. Also, when teams come up to stuff the run, we can let good ol\' AB unleash one of those pretty deep balls, which he is much better suited to throw.

Those are my initial thoughts.

PS - It will also keep our terrible D off the field longer.

The Run vs Pass?
 

Thank you. I was hoping to get some feedback from some of the vets on this one, like Gumbo, Saintswhdi etc, Whodat but I think they\'re still arguing on other threads still. ;)

It brings up a Brooks vs Deuce type question, but I see a thread started on that shortly after anyways.

Some good points Jkool. It\'s weird because I\'m a huge fan of the run game, but in this situation I\'m leaning to the pass first game?

With the receivers we got, I gotta beleive that our O line can\'t do worst then last year! ( Fingers very crossed) This has to buy Brooks a little more time this year, allowing us the option to pass more regularly, without being down 20 pts first.

You can run 1st and set up the pass or pass to set up the run. Sounds like the same but it\'s not. In this case I think if you look at our div games we\'re better suited to pass 1st. TB, CAR, and ATL now that they got Hartwell will be playing the run much better now. We\'re risking Deuce taking a serious beating if we\'re going to show run to set up the pass IMO. Better to stretch them out with the pass first , then run it down their throats. This philosophy IMO will suit our team better in the long run. Let Stallworth develop into a solid #2 by letting him become a deep threat!

The Run vs Pass?
 

it\'s the high flying offensive nfl these days but a ball control team that can chew up the clock when ahead is a killer. i\'ll be happy to see more of that whether it is better suited to the o-line or not.

The Run vs Pass?
 

Stall,

That is something I\'ve been thinking about too. It would be interesting to put a case together that our game plan NEEDS to feature the pass. I\'ve always been of the position that a team should look at its strengths first (and start the game plan there), but I don\'t see any reason if you had a balanced team to not look at your opponents defensive strengths first.

I will think on this more, but thanks for raising that.

The Run vs Pass?
 

I agree with Kool - our o-line seems better suited for run blocking, especially with the big nasties we have up the middle. I think TE and T play has hurt the running game in the last few years (Deuce being hurt certainly didn\'t help, but...)

When I think about it, Deuce\'s biggest runs always seemed to come on the stretch plays that went over a T. So long as the TE could get to the second level and crack a LB, that would allow Deuce into the secondary where he was dangerous both b/c of his size and speed.

I think the coaches have been wrong in trying to make Deuce gain weight (which has hurt his speed, and I think was a knee-jerk reaction to the year that we couldn\'t execute a 3rd or 4th and 1 play). His extra weight and injuries have hurt his conditioning and made him less explosive.

However, that\'s not the whole story. The play on the outside of the line has diminished. Last year I thought Deuce have to make cuts or take hits earlier. You\'re not going to go for a lot of big gains in the NFL when the first tackler you face is a DE or LB. They ran fine up the middle - that\'s just usually not a run that\'s going to go for more than 10 or 15 yards max b/c it\'s up the heart of the D. The big ones come on the perimeter.

Finally - I\'ve thought for a while that the Saint should spread the field and use the pass to soften the D for the running game. I\'m no longer sure how well that would work b/c of Deuce\'s overwhelming desire for a lead blocker. While I like the idea of maximizing Deuce and minimizing Brooks - the reality is that most of the big plays have come from the passing game the last year or two. If running the ball means being predictable and running over the guard for a year or two twice a series and then forcing Brooks into a 3rd and 7, then I don\'t like it at all. We\'ll see - but the Saints\' scheme changes have not proven to be successful in the past.

The Run vs Pass?
 

This is what I\'m worried about. Those were all excellent points by the way. I\'m with you on all fronts. It\'s funny that Deuce prefers a lead blocker because he is such a power type back. I remember that 70 yd run vs Car, where he went straight into the line, and was the only one to come through, he then scampered out the rest of the yds on speed. I like those plays for him better then the perimeter plays you talked about. Like you said we\'re strong up the middle, so I would rather we run there more often then toss plays.

That is the exact result we should be looking for on the run. If we\'re getting those results from runs up the gut, use those for our 3rd downs after we\'ve spread the ball to our receivers. Setting them up with the pass first, then allowing our backs to pound for the firsts. Keep them fresh for the long season.

I know Deuce wants 20 carries plus per game, so give him that, but just at the right times. I would love to see the opening play of next year be a fake hand off to Deuce, brooks goes left and launches one downfield, caught by Horn or Stallworth for a 40 yd gain. Sell run all off season and then start with a long pass.......wouldn\'t that just tell the whole story of the Saints?

:D

[Edited on 10/4/2005 by StallworthFN]

[Edited on 10/4/2005 by StallworthFN]

The Run vs Pass?
 

If you want to get into the playoffs and even think about winning a Superbowl, run the football. Running game and defense wins championships.

The Run vs Pass?
 

I\'ve heard that cliche before but when was the last time a Superbowl was won 0-0? Points win Sperbowls. Not trying to start anything because I believe in the run game, believe me! I\'m just trying to state what THIS particular team is BEST suited to do, not argue overall team formulas.

Again NO disrespect to anyone intended.

The Run vs Pass?
 

The Saints should set a goal of 40 runs per game. If they can achieve this goal, they should go very deep into the playoffs, and maybe a superbowl. The talent at WR should keep opposing defenses from stacking 8 and 9 in the box. If opposing defenses do go 8 or 9 in the box, then bombs away. Opposing teams will get killed trying to single cover the Saints WR\'s.

The Run vs Pass?
 

In other words, we should run the ball more to set up play action. We have a great big nasty o-line up front and we are perfectly suited to pound the ball 40 times a game. I rather us put our teams offensive success in Deuce\'s hands to eliminate the blunders in which AB consistently tends to do. By making them put 8 men in the box most of the game, AB will be able to make better decisions because it will leave their corners in 1 vs 1 situations with our extremely fast receivers. But it\'s like any of this is already not understood. Run, run, and more running. Then playaction to Horn down the field or a quick slant to Stallworth ;) and it\'s going to be a td!

The Run vs Pass?
 

I think it\'ll depend on whether or not we\'re 14 points down after the first quarter every game.

I\'d prefer to see more running myself, but if the D doesn\'t improve (and improve a lot), then we might be trapped in the same old hurry-up-and-score-now offense we saw most of last season.

The D\'s got to improve. Then I\'d be happy to see Deuce get forty carries.

The Run vs Pass?
 

You sound very much like my brother. We argue this point all the time.

If you make yourself one dimensional, you are playing into the opposition\'s hands.

A balanced offense that both runs and passes well are the most effective.

If you run, run, run then the defense will simply bring 8, 9, or more into the box.

If you cannot (or do not) pass out of those situations, you\'re going to be hosed.

Ideally you want to run when the defense thinks that you are passing a vice versa.

Run oriented is fine. But running all the time is bad news.

SFIAH

The Run vs Pass?
 

Absolutely none taken.

But the point is so important that it\'s my signature now.

Championship teams always have great defense.

Championship teams usually can run the ball.

Championship teams are rarely so one dimensional on offense that the other facet of their game is completely ineffective. The 1999 Rams actually could run the ball. The 2000 Ravens use Dilfer to pass effectively enough that Lewis could continue to run the ball.

SFIAH

The Run vs Pass?
 

Let\'s take the premier example of this type of team: The Indianapolis Colts.

40 points per game. Check.
Deep into the playoffs. Yes.
Talent at WR.
Opposing teams getting killed trying to cover wideouts. Yup.

Final result? They fall short.

If you wonder why... Read the signature.

SFIAH

The Run vs Pass?
 

SFIAH....i agree with you 200%. If you have a top 5 D and a decent O, you will go far in this league!!!!

The Run vs Pass?
 

Thanks, Whodat also pointed out...

That\'s also tied to the defense. Teams that are primarily run oriented often have defenses that weather situations like that. So they just keep pounding and pounding the run until the opposition wilts.

But you can\'t do that if your defense is going to give up a bunch of yards, time and points when they\'re on the field.

The last 2 years the Saints have been very predictable. Try to establish the run game in the first quarter, then by the time they are down 10/14/20 points, start slinging it all over the place. Which BTW a lot of the time was successful.

You can really only afford to run the ball when the score is close or when you are leading. It shortens the game.

But run oriented offenses don\'t work well when you\'re way behind. And a poor defense often puts you way behind.

SFIAH

The Run vs Pass?
 

That was a great point, and the heart of what I was getting at. Well said. That is exactly the point where I don\'t want to get again. Maybe we can still run 40 times per game, but do it in the late stages when we\'re actually up. If your having success\" slingin it all over the place\" I say....SLING AWAY until that fails......Then run.