Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

Not much happening today ... so ... I thought I'd just make a prediction. We'll see if I'm right?!

I think what Micky Loomis has done, or, rather, hasn't done, is very smart.

I believe Loomis has done the right thing by standing pat on the Darren Howard situation.

Teams like the Cowboys think that Loomis will blink first and give in,

But, as the draft approaches ... Loomis is the one in the driver's seat.

While it's impossible to predict what will happen with Darren Howard ... I look for something major to happen involving Darren Howard and the Saints as the draft rapidly approaches.





[Edited on 20/4/2005 by GumboBC]

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

I agree with you and I think that Howard\'s value will be at its highest on draft day. There are alot of question marks on all the top DE prospects this season. This only helps boost Howards value IMO.

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

Yep I can hear it now...
\"Damn, our DE was picked by Zona. Get on the phone with New Orleans right fricking now! Give \'em what they want dammit!\"

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

Haha true that. I think for once, the Saints FO has been patient and really seems to be thinking things through. I\'m feeling pretty good about this weekend\'s draft. I feel we\'re going to do some good deals and draft some playmakers.

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

i agree howard will get moved on draft day

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

Here\'s scouting guru Gil Brandt\'s list of the top DE prospects. How do you guys think Howard stacks up?

http://www.nfl.com/draft/analysis/expert/brandt/dl

The short list is:

1. Demarcus Ware
2. Shawne Merriman
3. Erasmus James
4. David Pollack
5. Marcus Spears
6. Dan Cody
7. Matt Roth
8. Chris Canty
9. Justin Tuck
10. George Gause

In my opinion, the dropoff is pretty sharp after Dan Cody. Unfortunately (in regards to a Howard trade), the top six of these listed are viable first round picks. That said, many reports say teams are considering Ware, Merriman, Pollack, and even Cody as possible LB\'s in a 3-4 scheme.

A team looking for a pure DE could be compelled to give the Howard trade a look. In addition to being a talented (and proven) pass rusher, Howard has the size to fill the DE spot in a 3-4 (thus the rumored interest from Dallas and Oakland).

Given the injury troubles James and Spears have had, Howard might look better and better. Granted, Howard\'s had his troubles too, but still posts results even when his season is shortened by injury.

This could turn out pretty well for us...

[Edited on 20/4/2005 by mutineer10]

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

this is what worries me though:

I thin we have himin the second and everyone else two rounds later..I think we are going to blow this pick if we draft him....esp. that early.

I\'m telling you boys-we are going to try to draft him wayto early...and if he\'s a cunningham clone I don\'t want him cunningham was dumber than brooks..

[Edited on 20/4/2005 by baronm]

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

Cunningham is about 25th in every positive stat of the 50 all time greatest QBs. This, despite having little talent around him while the Eagles focused on their D.

For the record, the only Saints QB that I know for sure was \"smarter\" than AB was Danny Woeful. People act as if AB has some sort of glorious Saints QB legacy to live up to. This \"dumb\" player will likely shred every Saints passing record.

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

I can\'t speak for everyone, but it is not a glorious Saints QB legacy I want him to live up to. I would like for him to play as good of a game as he talks, and I would like for him to live up to a glorious Saints salary that he is being paid. ;)

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

cunningham was a runningback under center. I want the running back to play running back and the quarterback to be able to pass the ball and make decisions.

Macpherson is not, IMO someone I want to count on for that...esp. with a second round pick.

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

Randall\'s passing stats in the top ten by season.

Completions:

1987-10th
1988-3rd
1989-5th
1990-6th
1998-9th

Passing yards:
1987-9th
19883-3rd
1989-10th
1990-6th
1998-5th

Passing TDs:

1987-4th
1988-4th
1989-9th
1990-2nd
1992-6th
1998-2nd


Looks more like a QB who just happened to be able to run. Was Young an RB under center? Of course not, he was just sooo smart.

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

Actually I think Howards value will be at the peak during preseason -- its then that teams start noticing how weak they are at that position and will be making offers out the wazoo -- But I also think he will get moved on draft day =-=

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

Guess my response would help. I\'d say AB stacks up with a bunch of QBs in his pay range. The much \"smarter\" Harrington comes to mind, offhand. Also, one can\'t put a price on his 4th quarter action.

AB\'s top ten stats.

Completions:
2001-9th
2003-10th
2004-7th

Passing yards:
2001-4th
2002-9th
2003-8th
2004-9th

TDs:
2001-5th
2002-2nd
2003-7th

Adjusted yards per pass:2003-7th

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

who else has howard talked to besides dallas and oakland about a contract? it seems him agreeing to a longterm deal with the other team is the biggest factor in making a trade happen. that seems improbable while the clock is ticking on saturday. how will that be overcome?

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

I\'m telling you that I wouldn\'t be surprised to see Howard in Black and Gold next year. Though the odds favor a trade, I still think that there\'s a 25% chance... maybe less... that he\'ll be here.

My money still says that the right move is to sign him to the LT deal that puts his cap number under $2 million this season. Then, if someone wants to shell out some real value for him (i.e. a 1st) - good, make the trade. Otherwise, keep him and let him lead the team in sacks again. I just don\'t think there\'s a player of Howard\'s value after our pick at 16... but that\'s just me.

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

Wouldnt signing Howard to a long term deal, then trading him be a large cap hit? I was counting on dealing Howard, Boo, and possibly Freddy, to have a crack at DJ and younger SS and CBs.

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

Exactly right zulu king. But not only would signing Howard to a long term deal NOW be a huge cap hit if we traded him, but we would lose our franchise tag until his contract expired whether we traded him or not. So if it\'s a six year deal, we would lose the right to franchise any other player for six years. We can not sign Howard to a long term deal until July 15, which is after training camp, which would then mean we can\'t sign our draft picks until afer that point. But don\'t bother explaining that to Who, the cap and it\'s ramifications don\'t exist for him. :casstet:

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

It could, yes. You\'re right. My assumption was that he would play for the Saints this year... or that someone would have to give us something great for him.


The knock on Howard has simply been that he is expensive. If you can get his cap number under $2 million, what\'s the problem? I don\'t buy the, \"we have depth at DE and bigger problems elsewhere, so let\'s trade away our depth for a SHOT at POSSIBLY improving another position.\" That\'s just not smart.

Who could the Saints sign at number 15 or 20 that would be as talented and productive as Howard this year? I don\'t think there\'s anyone.

Howard is one of the most talented and productive player on defense. In fact, I challenge you to find someone who was more productive at his position on defense than Darren Howard was last year - and he played part of the season injured and another big part of it out of position!!! Right, so let\'s trade our best player on defense b/c we have two other good ones and maybe we get another Grant.... or maybe we get another Sullivan. Sure, that makes sense to me.
:casstet:

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

Grant is our best player on D. And i\'ll repeat this AGAIN:

Exactly right zulu king. But not only would signing Howard to a long term deal NOW be a huge cap hit if we traded him, but we would lose our franchise tag until his contract expired whether we traded him or not. So if it\'s a six year deal, we would lose the right to franchise any other player for six years. We can not sign Howard to a long term deal until July 15, which is after training camp, which would then mean we can\'t sign our draft picks until afer that point. But don\'t bother explaining that to Who, the cap and it\'s ramifications don\'t exist for him. :casstet: :casstet: :casstet:

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

So wait until the 15th to sign him Whodi. That\'s not a problem bud.

Grant is our best player on D? Maybe. That\'s the next logical choice. McKenzie seems to be up there too, if he can keep his play up. But the point is - how many guys of Howard\'s ability do we have on D? Very few. So you\'re willing to give up a proven performer for a draft pick?????

So you think that the Saints have used their draft picks intelligently the last three or four years? What happens when the Saints get such a great deal on Howard that they\'re in the position to pick DJ, but instead pick the 6 best DT out of Georgia or Ohio State instead? Then it will really be worth it, right?

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

Finally, I agree with you on something on this whole Howard deal. There is NO guarantee this FO will pick the right player. Absolutely none. And if they blow it, they will only look like the fools we already knew they were right? I mean, they did get Will smith and Watson last year, and Colby. So true, my thoughts are coming with a bit of hope they finally have a small idea of what they are doing. But I agree with this FO, it\'s a risk.

Actually, it is a problem, cause our draft picks we are unable to sign will miss valuable mini camps and training sessions. Then after we sign Howard on the 15th, who\'s to say we get the picks signed right away? We could be into pre-season games before they can see some practice. How much value will theyhave for next year then no matter who we draft.

Well, in Grant and Will Smith, we have two at the position Howard plays. And I don\'t recall Grant being injured or will getting injured last year. So we are pretty well covered should we not have Howard and his big salary to occasionally play. The plays they were allon the field were obvious passing downs. Howard Green was in on running downs. So we give Howard a big deal to rotate at DE and come in on obvious passing downs as a DT, with a team that can\'t stop the run? Kinda decreases his value and the starters contract he wants huh?

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

yeah whodi, the draftees can catch up later like henderson last year. ya don\'t think we can get by with no franchise tag for 6 years?

:doh: :bandhead: :roll:

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

Glad we finally agree on something.

I don\'t believe that the Saints could not sign their draft picks. I am no cap specialist - but there are two scenarios in which I see each as a possibility. First, do the Saints have to be under the cap at all times? I thought there is some date by which they have to get under the cap. Is it possible for them to be over the cap at this point or has that day passed?

Second - The New Orleans Saints and first round draft pick [blank] have agreed in principle on a deal worth blank for blank years. Player will report to camp, but the deal will not be officially signed until July 15th, when the Saints can resign Darren Howard to a long-term deal without losing their Franchise Tag....


As for Grant and Smith, that neither of them got hurt last year is irrelevant. Both are young - and while they don\'t have histories of injury, that stuff can happen at any time in the NFL. Depth is insurance. Darren Howard played significant time last year and was a top contributor. I just don\'t see giving him away unless the price is right. He is good against the run at his position and also from the inside. He can rush the passer from anywhere. He is dedicated and a team player. Those kind fo guys aren\'t easy to find. Simply b/c the Saints have other need is no reason to get rid of a good player. The Saints probably have bigger needs at WR, both T positions, QB, TE, but that didn\'t stop them from adding depth at RB - which wasn\'t a bad move.

Trading Darren Howard is not the key to success for the Saints in this draft or the 2005 season. Having him on the team not only can, but is very likely to be a big help on defense. If we can sign him for under $2 million in cap space - I really don\'t see the problem. If a great deal comes along, fine, take it. If not, what\'s the problem? $9 million in cap space isn\'t enough to sign draft picks (3 now plus Howard\'s 6 in freed up space from 8 to 2)???

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

Here is the problem, what do you think is giving him away? Is a first round pick enough? Or do you want a pro bowl player even though Howard has never been in the pro bowl? What is giving him away? We drafted him in the 2nd round, he has played well, but not anything Grant and Smith can\'t do. And whitehead is a beast in the rotation. So with Grant, Smith, whitehead, Young, sullivan, Bryant and Leisle we don\'t already have enough depth? So tell me Who, what would be fair compensation to you? The number one pick? a top 10 pick? What? To me, trading Howard, a player who has never been to the pro bowl, for a player that has is unrealistic. So what\'s the right number who?

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

1. No capologist either but no team CAN go over the Salary Cap. Note that every contract must go through the NFL League Office before the deal can be made official. Presumably, one of the things the league must do at this time is determine whether or not the contract would violate the NFL\'s Salary Cap. If the deal does violate the cap, then the NFL will reject it.

There have been instances in which a team has managed to sneak a cap evading contract by the league. Upon further review, the violations were caught by the league and the respective teams were penalized. Penalties include fines and/or forfeiture of draft picks. In recent history both the Pittsburgh Steelers and San Francisco 49ers have been penalized draft picks, while the 49ers\' front office personnel (Carmen Policy and Dwight Clark) were also fined.

2. No player is going to report with no contract. i dunno if he even could legally. One injury and he is done with the team having no obligation to him.

3. The signing bonus is prorated into the cap obligation as well. so, say 2mil a yr + 2+mil (14 mil s.b./6 yrs)= 4+mil is still 5% of the team payroll for a 3rd DE.

What about no franchise tag for 6 years? This is one of the most useful tools have for keeping players.

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

Nice backup LKelley. I don\'t know how much more explaining of how untenable the situation is when it comes to keeping Howard. It can\'t be done without grave consequences. I also want to point out Pat Surtain, a pro bowl corner and definite one of the top 5 in the league at his position, was just traded for a 2nd round pick, only. If we get a first for Howard, I think we better jump on it immediately.

[Edited on 22/4/2005 by saintswhodi]

Thoughts on the Howard Situation
 

i think this back-up plan is mostly just more front office posturing to get the best trade deal. still, these guys scare me. they could do it. like last year, i think if they would have thrown in o\'sullivan from the start they would have gotten mckenzie before the season started. no telling what diff my have come from that. same thing here, i hope they don\'t outsmart everyone else to get themselves in that corner.