Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

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Remember when a game could be won in overtime by winning the toss, gaining a few first downs, and kicking a field goal? When the Saints did just that nine years ago to secure a Super Bowl berth, the league abruptly changed an unfair rule that had been hiding in plain sight for decades. It will take that kind of outcome to make the notoriously conservative NFL change the worst rule on the books.

It’s the fumble out of the end zone. There continues to be no good argument in favor of allowing the offense to keep possession when a fumble in the field of play goes out of bounds at the one-inch line but giving the ball to the defense at its own 20 if the ball ends up hitting the pylon or otherwise ending up out of bounds in the end zone.

The defense in many cases has done nothing cause the fumble, and it necessarily has done nothing in any case to recover it. So why does the offense keep the ball when it goes out of bounds in the 100 yards that aren’t the end zone but lose it if the ball crosses the plane of the goal line? It makes no sense, and the “well don’t fumble it” excuse doesn’t work because, again, if the ball goes out of bounds at the one-inch line, the offense keeps it even if the offense lost it.

While the worst rule in football routinely is discussed (supposedly) by the Competition Committee, there’s never been a push to change it because the worst rule in football has never marred a conference championship game or a Super Bowl. Someday, it will. When it does, the rule will quickly be changed.

It will quickly be changed because millions of casual fans who tune in only for the biggest games of the year will see the outcome and say, “How can this be?” So when the rule embarrasses the NFL in a profound and notorious way, the league will say, “We can’t let this happen again.”

But it should never happen at all. And the league can prevent it from ever happening in one of the biggest games of the year by changing it. Chances are the league won’t, because for whatever reason the league isn’t wired to prevent outcomes like this before they create an otherwise avoidable debacle.

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Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

Don't agree, if you aren't happy with the rule don't fumble through the end zone.

No reason for Tommy Lee 2 yards to lunge there, he nearly lost us the game and frankly I don't understand why he has a roster spot. Literally brings nothing to the team.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

+100

and SP needs stop trying to outdo the opposition when we get caught on a trick play. TLL should have never been on the field, let alone have his hands on the ball there

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

On a crucial play and drive, not sure why you would take the ball away from Brees, Ingram or Kamara.

Luckily our defense was good enough to over a bone headed mistake from TLL. Gotta know the situation.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

I’m sure TLL is a great young man, but good God I despise that Payton is still trying to make him a thing.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

http://blackandgold.com/u/5271-albums105-picture651.jpg


Couldn't agree with this more - there's a reason why Tommylee never sees the field; because of fearful small-market media, Payton won't receive the criticism that he should...

All those playmakers and you want to get cute and try to show how smart you are and you put it in a guy's hands who are cold?

Smartest moves were made two off-seasons ago when we hired Mike Nolan, Ryan Nielsen and finally got a front-seven put together - that defense and Cam Newton won that game...


As far as the rule, it's not a stupid rule - why should the defense not be rewarded when they make an outstanding stop or an offensive player is foolish with the ball?

We're not the Minnesota Vikings - we do not need to change the rules because we can't own up to our own bone-headed plays...

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

Berserk move on Payton. There is a reason why TL is way down on the depth chart. Ball security was more important in that situation than the TD. If we are down by a TD then yes, that is the time for it. He can't be trusted in those situations to do the right thing. Even if he had gotten the TD still a selfish act.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

The rule is somewhat quirky, but the quirky rules are what give football some of its charm.

And the more I think about, I like the rule the way it is. Remember, all the offense have to do to score a TD is to break the plane. So it balances things out to have the fumble/touchback rule there to add high risk to trying to break the plane. You still have to be safe with the ball.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

i think it's ok to have a penalty for the ball going out of the endzone but i don't like that the penalty is so steep. make it a 10 yard penalty or loss of down something like that. it bugs me because a ball can go out 1 inch in front of the pylon and it's just out but if it is 1 inch past the pylon it's the other teams ball on the 20?????? just seems like an insane penalty that's mostly dictated by the bounce of the ball.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

Love the rule. It emphasizes the importance of ball security in the red zone. As neugey said, the offense just has to break the plane so they have the luxury to be reckless with the ball near the goal line as once the plane is broken it's a done deal. I like that the defense has a chance to make a drive stopping play forcing a fumble into a touch back. I like that an element of ball security needs to punish carelessness on the part of offenses.

Payton got too cute, Lewis hopefully learned a valuable lesson and Carolina deserved the opportunity they got by taking advantage of our mental errors. The rule is fine and if it costs a team a game in the playoffs it's not a rule needing change. A team commits that error they deserve the outcome.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

My question is last night one of the sideline ref’s threw a spot marker on the 1 1/2 yard line where TLL step out of bounds before launching for the end zone. . If he was out of bounds at the you can’t fumble the ball in bounds.

Did they pick up that marker / over rule that sideline ref who has that responsibility or just blow it off?

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

TLL didn’t step out of bounds...he clearly fumbled while in bounds. I will say that it was close as to where the ball was when it crossed the pylon. They have a camera on top but it’s still subjective as to if it crossed the pylon in bounds.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

That was a colossal screw up by TommyLee there. He should have just wrapped up the ball and gone down in bounds, run off even more clock, kick the field goal, or else live to try again on 4th down. Based on the whole game, I had little to no doubt that our defense was going to be able to keep Carolina from marching down and scoring a touchdown, but when you leave it potentially with a field goal to tie, and NO POINTS, that was really incredibly stupid.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

Plus, the 20 yards changes everything.
Let's say he goes down at the 2, and we go on fourth and don't get it. Operating out of your endzone really limits the play call. Hindsight.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

So if the offense loses possession on this part of the field and you are OK with it then why not make it the same rule on the rest of the field? Offense fumbles out of bounds, give it to the defense. Same thing right? It's a dumb rule if the defense doesn't have possession, they shouldn't be rewarded with the ball. You want to penalize the offense for fumbling in the red zone and thru the endzone, then move them back to the 20 but they retain possession.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

Well, if you are going to use logic and reasoning...

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

I don't blame TLL in that situation.

Your job is to put the ball in the end zone everytime you get it if you can. If he had scored no one would say boo about him reaching it over.

It happened and its over.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

reminded me of Reggie always trying to do more bc he wasn't getting touches. Aggressive, but def not smart in that spot

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

Here is the beauty of the rule...

We all play by the same rules, one day it may benefit us and we won't care. lol.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

TommyLee has been a liability ever since camp. Nothing has changed. Extending the football like that was very careless on his part. Poor situational football but this was on Sean P play calling. Put the ball in the hands of your play makers.

Personally, I don't see why he was brought up from IR. He's a smaller version of Travis Cadet. Never been a fan of TLL but that's just me.

Saints defense bailed him out.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

NORMALLY, yes I would agree with that. But in that situation, with the game on the line, you go down in bounds and run the clock and live to fight another day. The idea in that scenario was to eventually score but also use as much of the clock as possible. If we were behind on the scoreboard, I would have no problem with what TommyLee tried to do, it would just be one of those bad breaks for the offense and so what, you were behind, you tried your best, and you were gonna lose anyway. But in last night's situation, with the lead, in a low scoring game -- running the clock and guaranteeing that we get SOME points, are far more important. Situational awareness is part of the game.We could have even potentially gotten that first down and goal at the 1, and then taken a knee, four times, not needing to score anything at all.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

BINGO! Did not need any heroism, or herculean effort there JUST a smart one.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

Didn't hate the play. Didn't hate TLL's effort. Agree with everyone who doesn't see TLL as anything special. The coach can out coach himself on occasion.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

Say what you want, it's hard for me to blame TLL for trying to win the game. Anyone in that situation, especially a younger guy trying to establish himself, I just can't heap too much negativity on him. Matter of fact, if I were Payton I would have had my arms around him in the locker room after the game, letting him know just that.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

If that was the case the play call would have been brees to run back until someone came to him then go to one knee. That wasn't the situation. We were going to need the first down to win or the TD.

So the situation was not that at all.

And nor the other 10 other players on the field was blocking to run out the clock. This was a coaching call and the right situation is to put the ball in the endzone.

Its all great to play Tuesday morning QB after the game but that wasn't the situation in the game.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

Now back to the rule aspect of this...

If the other teams gets tackled in the back of their endzone its a 2 point saftey and they have to kick giving the other team the ball.

The penalty of the other team getting the ball is fair and equal actually.

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

I have to disagree. The first down was much more crucial than the TD or the points in this instance. A first down inside the 1 ends the game.

There was a game this season where every fantasy owner of Gurley was ticked off because he took a knee at the end of the game instead of scoring a TD. The downs and the ability to run down the clock was more important than the points.

When there is one catastrophic outcome as opposed to multiple mild outcomes in relation, there's no way should the catastropic option be selected. One of a few things could have happened on the play:

1. TLL scores.
2. TLL gets the first down without scoring.
3. TLL doesn't get the first down.
4. TLL fumbles the ball with 4 possible outcomes:
a. Fumble out of bounds in the field of play
b. Fumble in bounds with TLL recovering
c. Fumble in bounds with Kitty recovery
d. FUMBLE THE BALL OUT THE END ZONE.

All of the first three are fine as is 4a and 4b. 4c isn't great but it would pin the Kitties inside the 1 yard line.

4d is really the only catastropic option. And that happens most likely by trying to extend the ball across the goal line. And unfortunately that's what TLL decided to do. At the position on the field he was when he was contacted, going down wins the game no matter the outcome with 4d being minimized.

As for Brees taking a knee, it wasn't the best option because there was no chance of getting a first down. There was still nearly 2 minutes left. This option guaranteed giving the Kitties the ball back. TLL getting a 1st down without scoring wins the game without the Kitties ever getting the ball back. Period.

Possession was 100 times more important than scoring in that instance. The first down was the way to retain possession. Scoring wasn't a necessary component.

SFIAH

Re: Worst rule in football won’t change until it affects a championship game
 

Have to disagree here too. There are two issues at play on both ends of the field with a fumble.

1. Who retains possession when the ball is fumbled out of bounds?
2. Where is the ball spotted?

The problem with the rule that we are discussing is the fact that there's only a single place on the field where possession of the ball changes when it goes out of bounds without recovery.

The safety makes sense because of the spot of the ball. The offense retains possession, but the spot of the ball is in the offense's end zone. A spot of the ball in the end zone is the definition of a safety. Note that the spot is different than a possession because a ball fumbled in the defenders' end zone possessed by the offense is in fact a TD. For example if TLL fumbled into the end zone and Thomas recovered it in the end zone, that would be a TD. Except that it wouldn't due to the 2 minute fumble rule below.

Now to the problematic rule. It's obvious that spotting the ball in the offense's end zone is the definition of a TD. So rewarding the offense with a TD on a fumble without possession is a terrible idea. However, the rule makes no sense because unlike anywhere else on the field, possession is lost by the offense even though the defense never possessed the ball. That's the first thing that needs to be turned off with the new rule. If the defense wants possession, then they need to possess the ball in the field of play. All fumbles out of bounds anywhere on the field should result in the fumbling team retaining possession of the ball.

Given that, the issue is the spot. There's already a spotting rule in place for the final 2 minutes of a half to prevent another Holy Roller Type play. Specifically (emphasis mine):
I found it here: 1978: Holy Roller play revises rules – Football Zebras

So the same should happen when it rolls out of bounds. Bring it back to where it's fumbled since that's further back than the end zone. This should be the case everywhere on the field. So while the safety would still stand, as the end zone is further back than the fumble spot, at the other end of the field the ball should be spotted where it's fumbled if it goes out of bounds of the end zone.

Now personally I believe the offense should be heavily penalized for the action of fumbling out the end zone. But on the other hand they should not lose possession by default. The difference between this type of current touchback and others (kickoffs, punts, interceptions or recovered fumbles by the defense in the end zone field of play) is that with all of the others possession has already changed hands to the defenders.

So as for the penalty, something along the lines of grounding seems appropriate. Maybe a 15 yard penalty from the spot of the ball and a loss of down. The offense gets to keep the ball, but that penalty would be enough to keep players from making attempts to score without risk of losing the ball or losing field position or downs.

Just my two cents,

SFIAH