SAINTS’ DE FOURSOME BEST IN NFL
 

I know Bryant's listed at 285, thats probably his listed weight when he was with the Raiders. The dude's 6'-6" and built thick and solid. I looked at the last 4 games last year and I'll bet he's a lot closer to 300 than he is 285.

I think he's gonna play an important role in that DE/DT rotation. I think he's a better fit sliding inside than Darren Howard. I view him as a younger Willie Whitehead, only a little bigger and with much more upside

I don't think many can argue they are the best 4. Our rotation will be deep. While 3 and a stud DT would be a better combo, we get Howard at DT on obvious passing downs(even though he doesn't like it), and have he, turnover machine Smith, and Grant on the field at the same time. They should make some hay this year IF we can stop the run somehow. Should be fun.

With 3 Probowl caliber talent at DE, I don't think anyone can argue with that no matter who the 4th DE is. At 6'6 and around 300, they should give Bryant a chance to start inside along Green. They would make a bigger combination to clog up the middle. It would give the quarterback a hell of a time getting the ball down the middle of the field with his big ole arms waving in the air. I love having Brian Young on our team and all, but the guy does not command a double team and is rarely in the back field. We need to get bigger.

Whodi, they aren't the best in the division, much less the NFL...
... until tthe Saints front 4 prove it on the field, Carolina has the best front 4 in the division(which BTW, are considered the best front 4 in the NFL)

... do you really think these 4 are better than say, Pittsburgh's front 4? Or New England's front 4?

I think you are misunderstanding Tobias, we are referring to the position of DE, not the front 4 in general. We can't come close to what Carolina and Jacksonville has for their front line. That's a given.

Exactly right papz. TR I think you missed the WHOLE point of the title of the thread and the article. We are talking about DEs ONLY. We all know Carolina's front four is the standard bearer of the NFL, and the article even gives props to Rucker and Peppers as poss the best 2 DE combo. But for all four, as in rotational, ours are and should be considered the best. Just poor poor read and understand on your part TR. :P

Happens to me all the freaking time when I skim. Then I wind up saying something that made absolutely no sense. :wink:

... my bad... my eyes were reading DE, my mind was reading Dline...
..still.. Grant and Howard, yes... Will Smith, he looks good, but I don't know if he's that much better than, say, Al Wallace... and Bryant to me looks more like a journeyman than anything else..
.

You don't think he's that much better than Al Wallace?!?! The grade school teacher turned NFL player?!?! Al Wallace has 15 career NFL sacks in 6 plus seasons. Will Smith has 7.5 after playing part-time for 1 year. I think there's a big difference in talent level. I like Al Wallace... he's a pretty solid backup, but no where in the same level as what Smith brings to the table. Also the fact that Kris Jenkins and Buckner demand extra attention down in the trenches, it makes Wallace look better than he really is.

In 6 seasons, Tony Bryant has 20 career sacks. Looks like pretty good depth to me for a 4th/5th guy on the depth chart.

In limited duty, with much weaker DTs than Peppers and Rucker have, Will Smith had the most forced turnovers of all our DEs. And 7.5 sacks, in part time duty, as a rookie. And 40 freaking tackles. In Howard's best year, he only had 53 tackles. again, this is a rookie we are talking about, in part time duty. Will is a stud. And if he is our third DE, we are set, and even when he is our second, we will be set for a very very long time.

I don't know what you have against the guy TR comparing him to Al Wallace, but it is some kinda bias that is unfounded. Wallace has played 6 years in the NFL and Smith already has half as many sacks and one more forced turnover. That was an insult to the young kid. But I guess in order to justify your point.......................................

Yea but DT's stop the run not DE's. Pass ruch will be very good, but we can't win if we don't stop the run!!!

True Dat FV,,,But I gotta feelin Sully And Leslie are gonne be monsters when the season starts...........remember....winning is contagious.......(holding a deep breath)

Until they stop the run effectively they should not be considered the best line in the division much less the NFL, prove it on the field then the praise will come........................

Oy vay. It's contagious.

Read people... DE DL DE DL. But I can see how an L can look like an E I guess. Just add a couple of lines here and there... and bam!

its that time of year when the hype begins

.. that's just stats, and 1 stat for that matter... how about stopping the run? Helping in pass coverage? Complementing the interior line?

... while Will Smith obviously has more talent than Wallace to play the position, that doesn't mean that right now he's playing the position any better than Al Wallace...

..just had to comeback to add a comment: I don't doubt that Will Smith will have a much better careeer than Wallace, or many other DE's for that matter...

This has got to be a joke... right?

Complementing the interior line? We have an interior line?

Just because Wallace has 2 career interceptions in 7 seasons makes him better than Smith right now?

Smith is a pass rusher who was drafted to get to the quarterback. Why help in pass coverage? He's not a linebacker, corner, or safety. I don't believe we run any type of New England defensive schemes where one of our d-lineman drop back in coverage. Would you want Dwight Freeney or Simeon Rice drop back? I don't think so.

In part time play last year, Smith outplayed Wallace period. He's outplayed Wallace's best season career wise.

"I don't doubt that Will Smith will have a much better careeer than Wallace, or many other DE's for that matter..."

You say this yet you say he's no better than Al Wallace. Weird... this has to be a joke that went wrong.

wow...

... don't get over-excited there, dude...
... it's all good that you took the pass coverage to mean going after a WR.. what about a TE?
... and no mention of stopping the run???...

.. here, I'll make you feel better: Will Smith is a better pass rusher than Al Wallace...

Over-excited? I think you are reading this the wrong way. I'm just giving you info that proves to you Al Wallace best season can't even compare to Smith's rookie season.

Since when do you see a defensive end covering a tightend? That's usually the safeties or one of the linebackers responsibility. I don't know what team's you have been following or what kind of coaching you are into... but I definately wouldn't want my defensive end covering a tightend. That's called a mismatch.

".. here, I'll make you feel better: Will Smith is a better pass rusher than Al Wallace..."

You should re-phrase it and say Will Smith is a better player period.

This is Wallace's career stats:
Year Team GP/GS T Solo Asst Sack PD FF FR INT Yds TD
1997 Philadelphia 1/0 1 0 1 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1998 Philadelphia 15/0 19 14 5 6.0 2 2 0 0 0 0
1999 Philadelphia Injured Reserve
2000 Chicago 0/0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2002 Carolina 16/4 35 22 13 3.0 0 1 2 0 0 1
2003 Carolina 16/2 38 25 13 5.0 2 0 1 2 58 0
2004 Carolina 16/0 30 22 8 1.0 0 2 1 0 0 0

Total 64/6 123 83 40 15.0 4 5 4 2 58 1

The guy's highest sack total ever is 6. The most tackles he's had in a year was 38. The guy has been cut 4 to 5 times and you are comparing him to our stud 1st round draft pick of a year ago. Come on TR, I don't mean to pick on you... but you seriously need to come up with something(ANYTHING AT ALL) to backup your statement of Wallace being better than Smith right now. I just don't see it.

... that's great that you listed all those stats and all... I guess I'm getting old... guess nowadays the DE purpose in the game is to sack the QB... my bad.

I said it before. i'll say it again, TR you seem to have something against Will Smith, or you are trying to cover your point. Will smith had 40 tackles last year, better than Wallace EVER in a season. will Smith had 6 forced fumbles. Wallace has 5 IN HIS CAREER. How the can you say all Smith does is sack? You are an intelligent and very witty guy, but on this I think, no I know you came in and read the title and content of the thread wrong, but now when faced with that refuse to concede you were incorrect and wanna still back your point. Al Wallace is not even as good as Tony Bryant and you are trying to create some ridiculous image of him being better than Will. I have to agree with papz, talking about our lineman covering and all this crap has to be a joke. They may do it ONCE in a game, but no way is this a way this team bases it's defensive scheme, no matter how clowny it may have looked. 3-4 teams tend to employ a strategy similar to that, like NE will have McGinest cover an area or such, but obviously, us nor Carolina run a 3-4. In knowing the kind of guy you have been on here, I can't even believe you are even still trying to push this argument off. Seriously. You have to be bored or something.

You forgot stop the run and create turnovers. Something he's done very well, 6 forced fumbles 40 tackles and 2 pass defensed last year. Hey 4 more pass defensed this year and he'll tie Wallace for his career total... not to mention Smith's 6 FF this year has already surpassed Wallace's career 5. Amazing what he's done in part time work without 2 ProBowl caliber defensive tackles beside him don't you think? :wink:

Wow sw :roll: ... stop readin my mind. It's like I double posted. I had to edit like freaking 3 times!

. . the original intend of my post was to state that I was skeptical of the comments of the original article...I am always skeptical of the "we look great on paper" mentality...

.. All things considered, I don't think that Will Smith played any better or that much better than a player on another team. That's that... I don't care how mediocre that player's career has been...

... and I still think stats are for Baseball...

..and yes DE's can help defend the passing game... and no it doesn't mean that the DE has to go chasing a TE down the field...

.. and with that, I agree to disagree...

Yes of course DE's can help defend the passing game... it's by putting pressure/sacking the quarterback.

Then what are you basing your opinion on? Physical attributes? His IQ? Wonderlic score? Intangibles? Do explain. Even all of these categories have numbers.

TR dude, you are ignoring all the facts and stating Wallace is better than Smith on what? Nothing. Nevermind it's like you just want to ignore everything we've said... it's like saying the sky is green knowing damn well it's blue. It's like saying Chase Lyman wasn't going to get hurt again knowing that he would :P But hey, everyone has their own perception on things. If after all that has been stated, and you won't accept that your opinion sounds bogus, then go on with your bad-self. Power to ya my brother!

I know it sounds great, but is it really an effective formation? Or is Howard wasted inside and gets handled by a guard most of the time? I have zero facts to back it up, but I also don't remember Howard's name being called very often when he moved inside.
Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to move Bryant inside on passing downs and simply rotate the three DEs so they are (relatively) fresh late in the game.
Not convinced this is a good idea, just throwing it out there.

Our d-line should be good this year but...

The biggest problem over the years with the defense has been defensive gap responsibilities. Linemen are always assigned a gap in defensive schemes. And the linebackers are suppose to adjust once the football is snapped.

Basically, our front seven has bit on everything. There was no concept of team work. No trust. It was just a piss poor attempt at playing team defense. It was easy pickin' for offenses.

The thing that changed over the last 4 games was "coaching". The "scheme" didn't change drasitically ... although it did change. But what really changed was the players learned to stay at home and take care of their "gaps".

My college coach used to preach gap responsibilties. Guess the old fart new what he was talking about :idea:

We have the best DE's no doubt but... we have the worst defence. Last year we were ranked 32 last... this year hopefully we can change that.

Good post. I think Charles Grant went from the attitude of busting upfield to grab a sack to correctly controlling his gap. His sacks went down a bit but he was burned much less on the cut-backs. I think he became a complete DE by years end.

James Allen showed me the same thing. In his first several games at SLB he would too often commit too early and once again the cut-back runs killed us. As the year progressed he started to understand the role of the SLB and played the position very well. He said the exact same thing in an interview with Hoakie/Kenny. He stated the freelance mentality of WLB took a while to break. The SLB is ALL about discipline and assignment. He feels like he understands the position a lot better than he did last year. He also didn't sound "dumb as a rock", which is what many of us, including me, labeled him.

His 1st 10 games keeps me skeptical, but his last 6 give me something to look forward to.

But without question, the biggest question mark on this team is who will step up at DT next to Young?