Please Don't
 

Please do not allow what is propagating in the streets to find a place here on these boards. I don't recall anyone hating someone else because of their race back in January, there is no need to allow emotions to cause that now. Unless your avatar is of you, I don't know or care to know any of your races, it is irrelevant.

A black man was killed by a cop and the black community is pissed. Don't ask why all of a sudden now, just know they are, and don't get caught up in the ignorant defensiveness of rhetorical questions. Maybe... just maybe you should ask your self why your community doesn't get equally as pissed when someone from your ethnicity is killed by a cop.

I believe that there are bad cops and that there are cops bad at being a cop but overwhelmingly the force is good and does good. If the public is going to get rid of any bad cops it is not going to get done by dividing by race and allowing the politicians to play us against each other, no single race has that horsepower anymore.

For those of you that believe strongly in the movement, be aware that you have some of the stupidest white people on this planet speaking for you and they are not furthering your cause one bit. There is a reason Dr. King did his own speaking, he knew that JamesBob podcasting from his moms basement would fu%^ up his message.

We are all here because we love a team, that team is struggling with social issues presently and it might be of value if we present a unified cooler head example for them. I know some of you believe that a good example can change the way others think, lets see if we can show our team how to fight along side each other rather than with each other.

That American flag represents all of us just like it represented every single race of American that fought beside me under it. It is the beacon to millions of immigrants that come here seeking liberty and freedom. History has shown that millions of Americans, all races and genders, can unite under it and be victorious. The colors represent unity not division. Red for hardiness & valor. Blue for vigilance, perseverance & justice. White signifies purity and innocence.

Even if you think all of the above is bull****; please done let what is out there divide us in here, for no reason other than you love this team and this place.

Re: Please Don't
 

I agree. It would be nice.

Politics destroyed the vibe at Site-X and made enemies of people who
should be brothers. I heard things flung that no Falcons fan ever said
to Saints fans. I came here because of the positive vibe, older, more
reasonable posters, and a lower level of internetty-ness.

I have tons of friends who vote opposite from me, and we dont act like
monkeys, over opinions and ideology. The bar ive been watching the games '
from is in Houston's "Rainbow" district, so naturally, im friends with a lot
of progressive types, and we had a blast last year, Live Jazz Band, me
DJ'ing, great games, lots of hugs, and DANCING after the game.

That was last year, and I miss it.

But I think its over, yall.

Re: Please Don't
 

Belongs in the political forum. It involves players but it's politics. I do agree though on movements getting hijacked. They always get hijacked for nefarious reasons that have nothing to do with the movement. The PLO started as a good movement and they were close to peace. It was hijacked and turned into a business with guns, weapons and terrorism. Never achieving any peace with it now.

Re: Please Don't
 

Ya had me until you called me older.:censored::censored::censored::censored:;)

Re: Please Don't
 

I dont know, Beast, this message is, I think, of importance, that it should be almost a sticky in the Football forum. I would really like to see us forget
politics when we're here. Probably wont happen, and after what happened to
Brees today, Im not sure what our future is.

I do agree with you that there's a strong possibility, that this thread will turn into a culture war, and do exactly what it was designed to stop.

I dont know everything. Today, I dont know anything.

Re: Please Don't
 

I understand your concerns and it is quite noble to take the high road. That has to work both ways however. There was plenty of sniping going on last year because of the anthem kneeling. The respect has to go both ways. Many of us have taken the high road before and got our teeth kicked in.

I agree many of the comments should be in the political section, but there comes a time when you simply have to stand your ground.

I think this nation is where it is right now because people have refused to fight back when they know they are in the right.

There's a new-ish saying I see floating around alot. "Don't start no ****, won't be no ***".

Kneeling during the anthem is the definition of starting some ****.

Re: Please Don't
 

For God's sake people we are all Americans....no matter what color. We are here to make America a better place to live for everyone.

Re: Please Don't
 

Re: Please Don't
 

Kneeling during the anthem isn't the problem. Being unable to actively discuss it or even disagree with it without being actively attacked by the mob is the issue.

Re: Please Don't
 

An elevated understanding and objective discussion doesn't require a concession of standing or high-ground neutrality.

It is very easy to keep things civil; decide your goal, what tone you want to set and don't get pulled into the weeds. I am naturally inclined to address each of the concerns that you have in your reply but I am not interested in an itemized tug of war with you and I wont be pulled into one. Obviously you need to vent; a lot of other people around here do as well but no one wants to just listen.

What sets these boards apart from other Saints boards is our ability to have a thoughtful discussion instead of just pages of strung together comments.

We all believe in our own strength and intelligence, well put it to the test. Engage in intellectual conversation and do not deviate.

Re: Please Don't
 

I placed this here because it isn't political discussion and contains zero partisanship. I put this here because it is about all of us. Its a plea for common decency.

I see this as more of a social issue than a political one.

Re: Please Don't
 

Oak, I get your sentiments. No one wants to devolve everything into an argument. Well, some people only want that, but they are in the minority. The thing is, when you say "no one wants to just listen", I only see that coming from one side. And I trust you know which side I'm referring to.

We've been listening to this "message" for decades. Oak, there IS no message. Some people will never be satisfied until we bow completely to political correctness and pay reparations for things that have nothing to do with any white or black person alive today. There is nothing to listen to.

George Floyd was murdered. We can all agree on that. These kinds of incidents involving white cops killing black people are extremely rare, but ALWAYS cherry picked against overwhelming criminal statistics coming from the black community. These statistics have been shared, not maliciously, but in a matter of fact way. No one "listens". They don't care. And by "they" I am talking about these militant black AND white liberals.

There are plenty of white and black people who get along just fine. But when the mob comes in and starts attacking the rest of us for not bending the knee to the made up narrative of "systemic racism" we need to be able to speak our minds. If that floods into these boards, so be it.

If you want us to lead an example for these football players, the example I refuse to set is to sit back and allow this rhetoric to fly in my face because I don't want to "offend" anyone, or cause a ripple in our little internet utopia. I'm sorry, but there are more important things than football and trying to hold on for dear life to fandom. I agree with remaining civil. I think, with the exception of just a couple of people, we manage to do that just fine.

These players need to learn to listen to OTHERS. They always want us poor little peasants to listen to them and honor their "greatness". I can't speak for you, but I've had enough. I can speak my mind without senseless bashing. I've done it for a long time, and I'll continue to do it. I wish people WOULD listen, but like Danno said, that needs to go both ways. I'm tired of trying to reason with people, being as patient as I can be, showing FACTS that refute the narrative, and getting ear muffs on the other end, only to be told I am the one who needs to listen.

We're not going to make "progress" until people quit bending over to political correctness, or just trying to avoid the issue for the sake of being friends. If a person is incapable of listening to your point of view without disowning you, then you don't need their friendship.

That's all I'm going to say about it, for now.

Re: Please Don't
 

If it ain't about football on the field it's some other BS. Belongs in another board topic. This is total political BS. Put it there next time. Nothing to do with the actual game of football.

Re: Please Don't
 

It doesn't matter what board it is. These are different times, and there is not football being played. I don't care where anyone posts their opinion. We are all free to discuss or ignore.

Re: Please Don't
 

How do we teach men the value of listening over being heard?

I have not disagreed with anything that you or Danno have said and fully understand your points.

My abilities afford me the opportunity to sit in meetings with PHD Chemists, corporate executives and career engineers. My role is to listen, process and later provide feedback. My first observation is that I am the only one listening and I am not a decision maker.

I have one question for both of you. In 10 words or less, what is your specific end game/goal/want?

Re: Please Don't
 

I dont know your profession but you write well

Re: Please Don't
 

Oak, I can sum up my endgame on just about every issue with one word...

TRUTH

Re: Please Don't
 

Let's talk about the truth.

A lot of people in this country grew up on the same street, listening to the same people, tell the same stories and are none the wiser that those were just stories. Some of those stories were about bad white men, some were about bad black men... Today they fight in the streets for their version of the truth.

I get your point 100% Danno but presenting fact doesn't just change belief. People tend to cling to beliefs and it takes more than one pass with facts to open our eyes does it?

Re: Please Don't
 

It will take generations to change beliefs. The best way is to present the truth over and over again, and to challenge lies over and over again.

Re: Please Don't
 

And even then some people will still refuse to listen. That's why I really respect Demario Davis and his thoughts.

When Brees said what he said, he listened. He didnt like what he heard, but he constructed a viable response and had a grown up conversation. Thats the only way this world moves forward.

People like Michael Thomas and Malcolm Jenkins could learn a lot from Davis.

The way a lot of the sporting world responded was immediately to call Brees a racist and I think that couldn't be further from the truth. Brees said something that a lot of people didn't agree with, but rather than taking the time to educate him on these matters and have conversations with him, a lot of people cut ties with him straight away.

Theres not many people who truly listen and that hurts the world.

Re: Please Don't
 

Without having a personal relationship with any of these men who are ranting about systemic racism, I can't teach them anything. I can only put the facts out there, hope someone reads it, and thinks about it long enough to figure things out.

It is up to each person to inform themselves. We can put the information out there - information that is readily available anywhere, to anyone who wants to know the truth - but we can't listen for them. These are guys who grew up with people telling them one thing, which happens to be founded on complete lies. And this is where that mentorship thing that you and I discussed the other day comes in. These guys need someone in their life that they trust to knock some sense into them.

In the meantime, I'm not going to stand for the preposterous accusation that WE are not listening. We've listened long enough. White conservatives have allowed themselves to be talked down into feeling guilty for something they have nothing to do with, for far too long. I'm not going to play that game. This isn't the time for playing nice with people who are filled with hate. I'm not talking about black people, as a whole. I'm talking about liberals of any color.

There are black people who want to be left alone, who are having their homes and businesses destroyed by both black and white people who presume to speak for ALL black people. Those are the people I feel for. They need our prayers and any help we can provide.

What is my end game? Getting people to look in the mirror.

Re: Please Don't
 

You speak so well that I understood all of that the first time you said it. I replied "I have not disagreed with anything that you or Danno have said and fully understand your points."

If you want to draw a hard line with people that obviously struggle with articulation, then do so.

You aren't listening to them, you didn't listen to me the first time that i said I understood you, and I expect another 4-6 paragraphs waiting for me in the morning saying the same thing but worded differently.

The only thing I ever asked was for us to not let what is going on outside cause destruction inside. You want to argue and be caustic... go at it. I wont get in your angry way.

Re: Please Don't
 

With all due respect, you just displayed an incredible amount of hypocrisy. You're accusing me of being angry, argumentative and "caustic", when I have remained calm, albeit firm in my convictions (big difference between that and just being angry), and I haven't said anything in a sarcastic way. You, on the other hand, as per usual, claim I didn't understand you or, now, that I didn't "listen" to you, and you're blowing a gasket because I won't buckle to your position.

This has been going on for about a year since you came back to the forum. No matter what it is, if I disagree with you, you think I didn't understand you. Does it ever occur to you that you and I do not align in our opinions, and that I am merely offering a counterpoint to yours? You don't have to agree with me anymore than I need to agree with you. But don't act like the problem is because I don't "get" you.

I responded to your first post, and you replied with some questions for me. One was how do we teach men the value of listening. I responded. The other was what is my end game. I responded. In what way have I repeated myself, other than reiterating one or two statements that bear repeating, because, despite your insistence that you agreed with me the first time, your comments did not reflect that you were representing, much less agreeing with what I said.

You're still telling me I need to "listen". I thought I made my stance on that clear once, then a second time when you repeated the issue, and now it's come up again. If you don't wish to hear my opinion repeated (so much for listening, right?) then perhaps you should stop asking the same question, or raising the same issue.

WHAT do you want me to hear? That "systemic racism" is real? That is FACTUALLY incorrect, Oak. Do you want me to "listen" to people telling me that I am a racist if I don't agree? That's not happening. I've heard every argument that has come from this group of people in question. Am I supposed to agree? Just so they can "feel" like I listened?

I know you claim that "The only thing I ever asked was for us to not let what is going on outside cause destruction inside". This is almost always what happens when I disagree with you. You claim you were "only saying this" fill in the blank. But, actually, YOU kept saying we needed to listen. I stated my case on that, to which your response boiled down to "I understand and agree with you 100%, but you need to listen and not just be heard"... In other words, you DIDN'T agree with me. Which brought us to round two, and now round three.

IF you were "only saying" let's not fight amongst ourselves, I'd agree. That's not the only thing you said. I was civil with you. Disagreeing or arguing a point is not fighting if you can remain calm. It is you who has taken offense and failed to listen to a word I've said, as evidenced by your complete mischaracterization of my position as "not listening". You sound exactly like the left when you say that.