Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Exactly. Would another coach have done the same? No guarantee.

Oh, and be careful. There are some around here that think Brees sucks and should be replaced. You think they're right?

:D

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

^^^^^^ This right here ^^^^^

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

AG,

We are the first team in NFL history to go 13-3 in back to back seasons and NOT advance past the conference championship game.

All of these regular season wins has yet to translate into anything meaningful. Saints consistently draft well, pick up key Free Agents yet fail in the playoffs. At some point, you gotta look at coaching.

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

I've gone on record as being MDavenport's biggest supporter, however he needs to bring it in season #3.

His tape shows that he's a violent defender, can set the edge and run down the elite (see Saquan Barkley/Giants game) RB's & sack the QB.

It's time to put the total package together (stay healthy), not over think and help us win games in the post season.

If his work ethic & desire to be great is even close to Cam Jordan's, we are in good shape for 2020.

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

I can make a very real argument that the Saints may have never done better than 8-8 over the past 15 years without Payton making all of the decisions that he has made. Can you say with all honesty that we would have had more success to this point without Sean Payton in charge? You can't lose in the playoffs without first making it to the playoffs. You are completely correct. At some point you have to look at coaching. And when I look at coaching I see the most successful run in the 53 year history of the New Orleans Saints and we currently have arguably the best roster ever.

As the old saying goes, be careful about what you wish for ... you just might get it.

Sure, place blame where ever you wish, but make sure you offset that with credit to see the bottom line. I asked JP this and haven't seen a reply ... who out there besides Belechick do you think would be giving us a better chance of winning it all that we could get to replace Payton? I can't wait to see your answer and explanation of why.

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

I agree that Payton is and has been the best man for the job but if he would have learned to stay away from the defensive side of the ball and allowed his coaches to do their thing we would have several rings.
He saw things he wanted (Seattle Defense) and pretty much told his coaches to give it to him. Weather or not we had the personnel to pull it off didn’t matter.

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Honestly, what available coach do you feel would be a sure fire better option than Sean Payton at this moment?

Whether you agree or not, Payton is accepted by most in the business as one of the top five head coaches in the league today. These are the names you see everywhere ...

Mike Tomlin, Pittsburgh Steelers.
Sean Payton, New Orleans Saints.
John Harbaugh, Baltimore Ravens.
Andy Reid, Kansas City Chiefs.
Bill Belichick, New England Patriots.

Can you guarantee the Saints would have been more successful without Payton? That's what you are implying.

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

With stay puff at LG we could do better

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

And, JP, that is only your personal assessment of Payton's personnel moves. It is a bit ridiculous to claim that no single NFL Coach "has done more to limit the success of his teams on the field than with irrational personnel moves and draft reaches". You are talking around a 100 head coaches in the league over Payton's tenure with the Saints and you claim he's been the worst dealing with personnel, yet he has one of the two or three best records over that same period. That's a bit of hyperbole, don't you think?

I know how involved you are with tracking and predicting personnel with the Saints. The fact that personnel moves haven't mirrored your desires may be a factor in your somewhat irrational criticism of Payton.

Well, my friend? ;)

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

What's this "we"? Since when have you become a Saints fan?

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

It's hard to be a "Closer" team when the team is in New Orleans. RG and the Zebras have a way to decide who's going through.
Lest we forget.
&

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

The offense ain't the problem. I'm looking squarely at Dennis Allen. His defense lost us games critical games because he just doesn't know how to close.

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Last I checked he wasn't in uniform out on the field. Or did I miss something?

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

I understand what you are saying and your opinion, JP. It is exactly what I was expecting as a reply. Now, do you honestly feel we'd be better off 1.) without Payton, and 2.) who is out there that you are confident could do a better job that we can have as a replacement, and 3.) do you honestly think Gayle will ever replace Payton?

That's what I've been wanting to hear from you. You can complain all you want, but if there is no better option what is the purpose? This is a question I have asked you and others at least a couple of dozen times and have never received an answer. Even telling me that you have no answer would be an acceptable answer.

Oh, and by the way, all 100 head coaches besides Belechick have "failed to make enough of the right moves..." during Payton's tenure with the Saints. At least Payton has one Lombardi and I feel we'll get another this year.

By the way, JP, your hindsight is better than 20/20. I'd venture to say it is 20/10 or better.

;)

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

I'm curious as to what sources you have that I don't. I get very little from Saints and NFL press releases. I try to follow every source you share. I search for any and every article, tweet or facebook post daily for information. I have seen isolated criticism of draft moves and such, but on the whole virtually every source seems overall positive about Payton's contributions.

I would seriously like to see those experts that align totally with your degree of displeasure of Payton across the board. I will gladly defer to you with that documented support.

:D

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

That, of course, would be up to Gayle so you and I both know that isn't going to happen. But, back to the oft questioned question ...

Who, that is/was available, would have led the Saints to more success than Payton and/or who should replace him today to guarantee more success in the future ... if you feel he definitely needs replaced today?

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Don't worry, I have been expanded WELL past Kirwan and NewOrleanSaints.com. The only time I reference the latter is if it is one of the search results from twitter, Facebook, or in any number of sports news feeds that I use. We also appear to have quite few few overlapping sources which is why you have already posted articles by the time I come here to post the very same ones myself.

And Pat Kirwan is only one of dozens of NFL Radio hosts and guests that I listen to daily for all sorts of insights. They include several of those sources that you listed, by the way. I am very familiar with all the rest, but have little interest in draft detail which is where most of their expertise lies. I understand that it is a major part of your enjoyment of NFL, but the opinions vary widely upon what is and isn't a successful draft and how you can't even evaluate one until several years later without going off anything but speculation, regardless of how much study is involved.

It is clear that most of your displeasure with Payton stems from your love of the personnel side of the game and how his philosophy does not align with your own or apparently that of some of your personal cohorts. :D You cannot deny that he has a brilliant offensive mind and is one of the best playcallers in the game today. All of his gametime decisions may not be perfect, but name a single head coach that never gets second guessed by his fan base or the media. The great Belechick actually gets called out as much as any other, but it is usually just blown off as Bill being Bill. :rolleyes:

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

They are not the ONLY ones that I quote in my posts. There is quite a bit of good football knowledge that comes from ex-coaches and GM's on NFL Radio, as well as ones still in the game - including Gil Brandt. As I said, I share whatever I can find regardless of source. Quite often what I come across is something you have already posted. Actually, most often. And if there happens to be something you post that I have not come across yet I'll read it from your post.

So, unless you are being stingy and not sharing info with your friends here then I am accessing everything that you are accessing. ;)

But ... again ... :D

Who, that is/was available, would have led the Saints to more success than Payton and/or who should replace him today to guarantee more success in the future ... if you feel he definitely needs replaced today?

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Right here.

This is a little off topic but didn't Greg Williams have a clause in his contract while in NO where he could run the defense in the manner in which he wanted to? No outside input from others, including the HC?

I recall reading this either in Sports Illustrated or Football insiders a while back.

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

You know as well as I that is not going to happen. Gayle looks upon both Payton and Loomis as sons. They are both here together until they decide to leave on their own and that day will most likely bring back the bleak days of the past. There nothing you can do, say, or wish for that will change that fact. Another one of my grandpa's sayings was to not waste your time and energy worrying over something you have no control over. That's always been one his most valuable lessons to me. Like one of our members like to say ... "could'a, would'a, should'a".

I understand your frustrations, but what you hope for doesn't exist in the world today ... the GM who thinks exactly as you about personnel and the head coach who never makes judgement errors and is totally open and honest with you so you always know what is going on.

:cool:

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Nola.com article by Jeff Duncan ...

Sean Payton's and Gregg Williams' dysfunctional relationship exposed in the NFL appeals process

Filmmaker Sean Pamphilon, the whistle-blower in Thursday's explosive story, went out of his way to exonerate Payton and General Manager Mickey Loomis, while simultaneously painting Williams as a runaway freight train of ego and hubris.

"During my time with the team, numerous sources told me that Williams used to go around bragging that he had a '(expletive) you' clause in his contract -- that he could basically do whatever he wanted in terms of running the defense with complete autonomy," Pamphilon said.

And this, indeed, was true. Williams was pretty much left to his own devices to run the defense. It was part of their agreement when Payton famously hired Williams in 2009.

I'm not sure if there was an actual clause, but this was what was taking place.

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

I like the '(expletive) you' clause better than the "total autonomy" to run the defense line.

:D

More colorful.

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Remember when the genius hired Spags and blamed him for all the woes the **** talent caused. Mind you Corey white started for us.

Didn't spags win yet another frigan SB as a dcoord?

Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments
 

Malcolm Jenkins is a cancer.