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jeanpierre 12-27-2020 03:05 PM
USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 

jeanpierre 12-27-2020 03:07 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
That's two weeks in a row Malcolm Jenkins graded in the bottom five, this week Sheldon Rankins is joining him...

At this point, I'd consider Rankins a bust as a pick; not a Sullivan or Shawn Knight bust, but a bust nonetheless...

We'd done better elevating Gardner to SS and acquiring an add'l outside CB instead of wasting money on Malcolm Jenkins tired-arse game...

stickman 12-27-2020 03:35 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Don't know if it's fair to put Kwon on there. The guy tore his friggin' achilles. That'll affect a guys stats.

blackangold 12-27-2020 04:05 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickman (Post 909465)
Don't know if it's fair to put Kwon on there. The guy tore his friggin' achilles. That'll affect a guys stats.
That’s not how this works lol...

Read a little bit on how PFF grades are put together, I’m not going to do it for you, but I’ll let you know it doesn’t matter what their stats are and doesn’t apply a grade if a player is on the bench.

K Major 12-27-2020 04:08 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickman (Post 909465)
Don't know if it's fair to put Kwon on there. The guy tore his friggin' achilles. That'll affect a guys stats.
https://www.canalstreetchronicles.co...saints-defense

I always approach PFF grading with a grain of salt. Trust what you see on the field.

Audiotom 12-27-2020 08:30 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Anzalone gave up at least 2 wide open touchdowns

Rugby Saint II 12-28-2020 01:13 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiotom (Post 909499)
Anzalone gave up at least 2 wide open touchdowns
Oh crap! :brood: Kwon's impact will be sorely missed.

jeanpierre 12-28-2020 02:04 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 909551)
Oh crap! :brood: Kwon's impact will be sorely missed.
Big. Time.

AsylumGuido 12-28-2020 03:31 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 909551)
Oh crap! :brood: Kwon's impact will be sorely missed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 909553)
Big. Time.
That remains to be seen. I'm taking a more positive stance that the team will rally behind the loss of one single player.

Besides, this isn't some sort of elite player we're talking about. I fear y'all are placing FAR too much importance on one player.

Rsanders24 12-28-2020 03:53 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 909558)
That remains to be seen. I'm taking a more positive stance that the team will rally behind the loss of one single player.

Besides, this isn't some sort of elite player we're talking about. I fear y'all are placing FAR too much importance on one player.
Either way you look at it we lost speed and coverage ability with Kwon going down. Sure, he isn’t a perennial Pro-Bowler but our front seven is way better with him than without and Alex has been in this defense for 3 years. To this day he is still a liability in the run and passing game. His reaction time is horrible.

Just watch his tape....

Rugby Saint II 12-28-2020 04:05 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rsanders24 (Post 909562)
Either way you look at it we lost speed and coverage ability with Kwon going down. Sure, he isn’t a perennial Pro-Bowler but our front seven is way better with him than without and Alex has been in this defense for 3 years. To this day he is still a liability in the run and passing game. His reaction time is horrible.

Just watch his tape....
The way he bonded with DD was inspiring for the whole defense. He brings high energy and leads by example. I don't see another player that has his energy, gap soundness, coverage skills ability and vocal leadership that can step up right now.

AsylumGuido 12-28-2020 04:23 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 909563)
The way he bonded with DD was inspiring for the whole defense. He brings high energy and leads by example. I don't see another player that has his energy, gap soundness, coverage skills ability and vocal leadership that can step up right now.
Well, we don't have him so it's time to move on. The players know that. Does no good to dwell on it. Next man up. The defense will be fine. I think you are giving him FAR too much credit.

jeanpierre 12-28-2020 10:44 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 909558)
That remains to be seen. I'm taking a more positive stance that the team will rally behind the loss of one single player.

Besides, this isn't some sort of elite player we're talking about. I fear y'all are placing FAR too much importance on one player.
Were you even watching the games when Kwon overtook Anzalone on the depth chart?

Kwon Alexander's addition made the defense elite; he gave us another coverage linebacker in addition to DeMario Davis; that allowed Dennis Allen the add'l option of sending either Kwon or DeMario on Blitz...

Since Malcolm Jenkins can't cover ala Roman Harper, DA has mostly used Kwon and DeMario in coverage, as they're our best (and really good) coverage linebackers...

Kwon Alexander's biggest problem has been missed tackles (terrible for a LBer), because he's been been out of position, mostly because he's still learning the defense, chemistry with his teammates...

However, Kwon has picked up the defense faster than some LBers and a certain SS who've had the benefit of training camp...

But if you look at when our defense really began to take off during the stretch run, it was when Kwon too over opposite DeMario Davis...

K Major 12-28-2020 11:24 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 909594)
Were you even watching the games when Kwon overtook Anzalone on the depth chart?

Kwon Alexander's addition made the defense elite; he gave us another coverage linebacker in addition to DeMario Davis; that allowed Dennis Allen the add'l option of sending either Kwon or DeMario on Blitz...

Since Malcolm Jenkins can't cover ala Roman Harper, DA has mostly used Kwon and DeMario in coverage, as they're our best (and really good) coverage linebackers...

Kwon Alexander's biggest problem has been missed tackles (terrible for a LBer), because he's been been out of position, mostly because he's still learning the defense, chemistry with his teammates...

However, Kwon has picked up the defense faster than some LBers and a certain SS who've had the benefit of training camp...

But if you look at when our defense really began to take off during the stretch run, it was when Kwon too over opposite DeMario Davis...
https://media3.giphy.com/media/mDN5j...&rid=giphy.gif

SmashMouth 12-29-2020 03:15 AM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 

K Major 12-29-2020 08:41 AM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
I know the Vikes were short staffed up front however the O line really embarrassed guys in the trenches. Kamara is special but those blocks made by Ramz, Armstead, Callaway, Hurst down around the goal line were impactful. Moving men against their will.

Hopefully this carries over as we enter post season.

AsylumGuido 12-29-2020 09:10 AM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 909594)
Were you even watching the games when Kwon overtook Anzalone on the depth chart?

Kwon Alexander's addition made the defense elite; he gave us another coverage linebacker in addition to DeMario Davis; that allowed Dennis Allen the add'l option of sending either Kwon or DeMario on Blitz...

Since Malcolm Jenkins can't cover ala Roman Harper, DA has mostly used Kwon and DeMario in coverage, as they're our best (and really good) coverage linebackers...

Kwon Alexander's biggest problem has been missed tackles (terrible for a LBer), because he's been been out of position, mostly because he's still learning the defense, chemistry with his teammates...

However, Kwon has picked up the defense faster than some LBers and a certain SS who've had the benefit of training camp...

But if you look at when our defense really began to take off during the stretch run, it was when Kwon too over opposite DeMario Davis...
We had the #1 run defense in the league before Alexander showed up. We had by far our two worst defensive outings (Philly and KC) with Alexander in the lineup and Anzalone on the bench. Was he the sole reason for that collapse? No. Of course not. Just like he wasn't the sole reason for any improvement in the defense earlier.

Like I said. Y'all are giving him far too much credit. Yes he runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. I'm sure that's one of the reasons he grades out so low via PFF ... being out of position. Yes he makes plays. But how many does he miss that we do not catch?

Rugby Saint II 12-29-2020 12:24 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 909605)
We had the #1 run defense in the league before Alexander showed up. We had by far our two worst defensive outings (Philly and KC) with Alexander in the lineup and Anzalone on the bench. Was he the sole reason for that collapse? No. Of course not. Just like he wasn't the sole reason for any improvement in the defense earlier.

Like I said. Y'all are giving him far too much credit. Yes he runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. I'm sure that's one of the reasons he grades out so low via PFF ... being out of position. Yes he makes plays. But how many does he miss that we do not catch?
I respect your opinion Guido. But I also respect that Kwon took us to an elite defense. We'll see if they can maintain that performance without him. My eyes tell me that we were always good against the run. You saw it too. However, he did help improve the defensive passing game...at least that is what my eyes told me.

AsylumGuido 12-29-2020 03:01 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 909616)
I respect your opinion Guido. But I also respect that Kwon took us to an elite defense. We'll see if they can maintain that performance without him. My eyes tell me that we were always good against the run. You saw it too. However, he did help improve the defensive passing game...at least that is what my eyes told me.
What I saw is that the defense as a whole seemed to play better for a stretch that not only coincided with the arrival of Alexander, but also the arrival of a string of very weak competition. I tend to feel that the latter was much, much more of the reason for the uptick in quality of defensive play than one single player. I also saw our two worst defensive performances of the season with Alexander on the field. You can't have it both ways. You can't give him the credit for better play and turn a blind eye when the play totally stunk.

The Dude 12-29-2020 03:33 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 909458)
That's two weeks in a row Malcolm Jenkins graded in the bottom five, this week Sheldon Rankins is joining him...

At this point, I'd consider Rankins a bust as a pick; not a Sullivan or Shawn Knight bust, but a bust nonetheless...

We'd done better elevating Gardner to SS and acquiring an add'l outside CB instead of wasting money on Malcolm Jenkins tired-arse game...
He had one promising year then he got injured. Hasn’t been the same since.

blackangold 12-29-2020 04:55 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 909616)
I respect your opinion Guido. But I also respect that Kwon took us to an elite defense. We'll see if they can maintain that performance without him. My eyes tell me that we were always good against the run. You saw it too. However, he did help improve the defensive passing game...at least that is what my eyes told me.
Took us to an elite defense against the likes of SF, DEN and ATL.... lol

Let's completely look past the absolute awful job he did against PHI... allowing multiple long runs because of his lack of gap discipline against the run.

You guys talk about facts in this thread, but they aren't facts, they are your feelings. This defense will be fine without Kwon, just like they were against better competition before he got here... in fact, the longer Kwon played with us, the worse the defense got particularly against the run.

Again... he is a decent LB, and probably the best on our team in coverage, however he is a liability against the run.

My point- stop acting like the sky is falling because we lost Kwon, this defense was top 5 without him against better teams.

AsylumGuido 12-29-2020 05:08 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackangold (Post 909632)
Took us to an elite defense against the likes of SF, DEN and ATL.... lol

Let's completely look past the absolute awful job he did against PHI... allowing multiple long runs because of his lack of gap discipline against the run.

You guys talk about facts in this thread, but they aren't facts, they are your feelings. This defense will be fine without Kwon, just like they were against better competition before he got her... in fact, the longer Kwon played with us, the worse the defense got particularly against the run.

Again... he is a decent LB, and probably the best on our team in coverage, however he is a liability against the run.

My point- stop acting like the sky is falling because we lost Kwon, this defense was top 5 without him against better teams.
All of the above. Dead on, blackangold. I'm saying the exact same thing, but I am, of course, delusional.

:doh:

jeanpierre 12-29-2020 06:31 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 909605)
We had the #1 run defense in the league before Alexander showed up. We had by far our two worst defensive outings (Philly and KC) with Alexander in the lineup and Anzalone on the bench. Was he the sole reason for that collapse? No. Of course not. Just like he wasn't the sole reason for any improvement in the defense earlier.

Like I said. Y'all are giving him far too much credit. Yes he runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. I'm sure that's one of the reasons he grades out so low via PFF ... being out of position. Yes he makes plays. But how many does he miss that we do not catch?
Fair Point, but two responses to counter:

First, NT Malcolm Brown, a key component to that run defense, was out; plus we started integrating Sheldon Rankins, who's more a pass rusher than a run defender...

Second, now that the team has a LBer than can cover in the pass, we're focusing more in stopping the pass vs the run; and nearly half those RuYds you refer were from four (4) big plays...

blackangold 12-30-2020 10:00 AM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 909634)
All of the above. Dead on, blackangold. I'm saying the exact same thing, but I am, of course, delusional.

:doh:
I knew it!

It's okay, so am I.


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