So voting against him because he IS black isn't as 'racist as they come' ?
Not that thousands, millions voted against Obama based on race, not that the Klan, Skinheads & Neo-Nazis all support the right?
Where is the most racist region in the US? The red and redder states of the deep south.

Typical response that misses my point completely. Are there racists on both sides? Of COURSE there are, and that's sad, but true.

At the very least the klan, skinheads, and neo-nazis will look you in the eye and tell you exactly how they feel. I'm not condoning it mind you. And, for what it's worth, those people vote conservative. The liberal candidate was a black man, so I'm wondering if there is any precedent for what you're suggesting, or if you're just doing what my wife loves to do, which is turn the thing 180 and deflect?

Millions of people voted for Obama BECAUSE he was black, and not for any other reason. That's the point I have made, and it is accurate. I don't have to condone racists of any kind to make that statement. The klan et al didn't elect a president. There aren't enough of them. You getting my drift yet, or do you want to continue to deflect?

And...

Why do you think the southern states are the most racist? What are you basing that on? Slavery? Am I about to have to endure another "America was built on the backs of slaves" story ala Michael Moore?

Save yourself the trouble. I'll blow that ignorance completely out of the water. Had that conversation with my liberal buddy at work a while back. The look on his face was priceless. Now, he didn't want to give up his stance, because he's been brought up and taught in school that it was an undeniable fact. Hogwash. But go ahead and knock yourself out if you want to. I'm ready.

Are you serious? Slavery? Just a thought- listen or read what some liberals other than Moore or your idiot FB friend have to say.
And are you just being argumentative, or do actually believe that there is a region more racist than the south?
These are the states that were flying confederate flags from state buildings 10 years ago, where plantation owners are college mascots, and where there are still an unbelievable number of people who drop the N-word without a second thought, where Strom Thurmond proudly served for 50 years as a segregationist (never mind the black daughter). Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and South Carolina have NEVER had a black senator.


Oh, and I'm glad to read that you can justify racism and bigotry as long as they 'look someone in the eye and tell you exactly how they feel'

Well, you're going to have to define what you think is racism. Flying the confederate flag, for example, isn't racism. The racists want to tell you that it is, but it isn't. And I'm no "confederate". That's bull. It's a product of an overly-politically-correct society. Most people I hear dropping the "N" word are black people. Most white people I know would never do that because it's inappropriate.

I'm not justifying racism, but I'm not surprised you'd read it that way. That's how these things go. I'm simply tired of hearing poor black people blame ME for the fact that they're poor. It isn't my fault. It isn't my parent's fault. It isn't my grandparent's fault. Racism, as you have effectively demonstrated, is a 'catch all' these days.

That idiot FB friend is a co-worker. A black man, married to a white woman, and he happens to be one of the most thoughtful intelligent people I know. He is sadly misguided, because he's bought into the rhetoric, much as it would appear you have. We have extremely detailed and productive conversations all the time. We disagree on fundamental topics at times. Even HE gets the race thing I'm talking about. You don't. Too many people don't, but it isn't because it isn't obvious, it's because they don't WANT to. There is nothing you have said here that Michael Moore wouldn't say. You're in good company I guess.

This is your response to blow my ignorance out of the water? My history lesson is that you don't see the confederate flag the same way blacks do, or you don't hear whites make racial slurs? Color me unimpressed.

Flying the confederate flag, for example, isn't racism. The racists want to tell you that it is, but it isn't Why would a racist say this? Comment makes no sense. If a racist is flying the flag, does he then say he is doing it because he is racist?

Even HE gets the race thing I'm talking about. You don't. I DON'T? You are here contending that racism in the south is not prevalent. Are you denying Rosa Parks, MLK, Andrew Young, thousands of lynchings, the Civil Rights Movement, race riots in Mobile and Birmingham? These events took place in the south.


Well, you're going to have to define what you think is racism.
We do agree on something; we have different definitions of racism.

On point one, I'll ask you to do your homework. Slavery didn't cause some great boom in the economy. In fact, the North was making more agriculture than the South.
what did I post about slavery? In response to my statement about racism in the south, you asked 'why, because of slavery?'. So you can save me the diatride on slavery; that's a topic you brought up.

Believe what you want sir. FREE men built this country. I don't have to turn a blind eye to Slavery, and I don't, but I'm not going to sit still while racists (yes, you don't seem to get that Moore and his ilk, maybe even you, are behaving as racists to argue otherwise) preach to me and to my children that the Evil United States became a great country because it had slaves. Bull S H I T. I am so terribly sad for you if you believe that. And forgive me if I label you ignorant. If that's what you think, think again. Read up on what REALLY went down. And again, this is not a justification for slavery. The Founder's built a system that they believed would eradicate slavery and ultimately did, although not as they had foreseen. Regardless, slavery was not an American institution but a global one, with South America and the Middle East importing a FAR GREATER number of slaves than did America. Ever. Again, nothing in my posts says anything about this. Actually, what I said was you should read or listen to liberals other than Moore

Men fought and men died under that flag, and most not because of a hatred for black people but for a way of life prevalent world wide since before there was an America. Again, it's not a 'pass' for slavery, but it's not the racist gesture you and other reverse racists want it to be. Insensitive? For some, yes. Racist? No. Now maybe you see the Confederate flag on the back of a pickup truck and you think, "that guy is racist". Maybe he is. Maybe he had a relative who died during the Civil War. Let me ask you, just who in the hell are YOU to judge? I judge people on actions, not bumper stickers. My point on the flag is this: why would you fly, wear, stick, or post in any way something so offensive to such a large group of people? Simple, because you don't care you they feel, what it means to them. Again, we have different views on racism.

And no. Let me correct you (again). I did NOT say racism in the south isn't prevalent. Feel free to quote me correctly or please not at all. YOU said the South is the most racist area in the country. Heck. Maybe you're right. I'm asking you to qualify that statement with something of substance that doesn't have to reach back 150 years in history to prove it. Seriously, I need the history lesson? I'll repost for you: Are you denying Rosa Parks, MLK, Andrew Young, thousands of lynchings, the Civil Rights Movement, race riots in Mobile and Birmingham? These events took place in the south. Apparently the '50's & 60's didn't have enough racial tension for you?
You cant. I just did, as could any sixth grader with a 'B' in social studies Not without playing the race card as so many of your ilk are prone to do. irrelevant, and not related to anything I posted

You see, sometimes perception isn't reality, especially when it is the perception of a brainwashed person who never took the time to learn the facts on his/her own but instead took everything he was told at face value. That's your mistake. Not mine. You disagree with my opinions, fine. However, you still haven't shown me anything factually inaccurate in my posts. Is the deflection technique you said your wife uses?

Now. Did slavery exist? Yea. Did it suck? Yea. Am I condoning the Klan and other similar organizations? Of course I am not. Does the poor minority in this country and its leaders play the race card at every turn, spinning and spinning until we become overly-sensitive to race? The evidence is right before you. Believe as you will. again, nowhere do I post anything about this. Maybe this was a conversation you had with the friend that you ridicule in one post and defend in another

Below you will find an excellent place to start your education. Let me know when you need more. And the next time you're asked to prove a statement, don't misquote the questioner, and be prepared to back up your spin with some sort of fact. Otherwise lead your statements with "In my opinion", that way the hammer won't come down so heavy... I suggest you take your own advice...you are having a slavery argument with yourself. I simply stated that there is racism in the south, and your response asked why I thought that, and then you made a ridiculous comment about having to go back 150 years to find examples of racism. Hammer? No. Not even close.




Slavery and American Capitalism | The Other Half of History

Despite the actions of abolitionists, life for free blacks was far from idyllic, due to northern racism. Most free blacks lived in racial enclaves in the major cities of the North: New York, Boston, Philadelphia, and Cincinnati. There, poor living conditions led to disease and death. In a Philadelphia study in 1846, practically all poor black infants died shortly after birth. Even wealthy blacks were prohibited from living in white neighborhoods due to whites' fear of declining property values.
African Americans were either refused admission to, or segregated in, hotels, restaurants, and theaters. Blacks had limited work and educational opportunities. They were often denied access to public transportation in cities, and allowed on trains only in "Jim Crow" segregated cars. They were also denied civil rights, such as the right to vote and the right to testify in court in many states, thus leaving them open to attack by thieves and mobs, and to being captured and sold by slave catchers. Black men and women were routinely attacked in the streets, and from 1820 to 1850, black churches, schools and homes were looted and burned in riots in major cities throughout the North, forcing many blacks to flee to Canada.

Once again, if that flag is offensive to you then it is offensive to you, for your own reasons. It is not racist. Because there are people who have chosen to use it to further their own racist agenda does not make it so. This is the lie that you have been taught to believe. That's on you sir. Not me. What they taught you in 6th grade is as much propaganda as it is anything else. YOU are offended by it so nobody else should display it. That's the liberal take on the subject, but there's not substance to it. I never said it was offensive to me. I said Culture A chooses to embrace the symbol despite what Culture B feels about it. Culture A is INTOLERANT of Culture B. Intolerance is racism.

Never did I say that racism doesn't exist. I see it in San Francisco of all places, but not exclusively by white people. You want to see racism? Head to Oakland and you'll see plenty of it. You want racism, listen to Al Sharpton, or read Michelle Obama's thesis. There you will find all the racism you'll ever want to find to support your argument that racism still exists. I know it still exists. I am frustrated by it. Yes, we all know that racism exists, and no one thinks racism is just one single race acting on another, or exclusively in the south. No one has said otherwise. What is your point?

But you've yet to point to anything that tells me that racism is more prevalent in the South. Yes. I'm the one that brought up slavery, and I did so because that's where people like you end up in this argument. I headed you off as the pass on that argument - on purpose - and to defend your "the south is most racist" argument you went straight to...Rosa Parks? What Rosa Parks did could have been done in the North too sir. The conditions that she experienced on that bus ARE THE SAME conditions she would have experienced on any random bus in the north. Segregation was hardly a "Southern States Only" problem, but that's not what you learned in 6th grade, and that was on purpose. That's the bigger crime whether you are able to open up to it or not. Your own ignorance doesn't change things.
Are you f***ing kidding me? I didn't realize to qualify my statement you wanted hypotheticals.
Yes, the entire civil rights movement COULD have taken place in the north, but it didn't. Lynchings and cross-burnings COULD have taken place in the midwest, too. You plainly stated that there were NO examples of southern racism for 150 years:

I'm asking you to qualify that statement with something of substance that doesn't have to reach back 150 years in history to prove it. You cant. Not without playing the race card as so many of your ilk are prone to do.

So, yes, Rosa Parks being arrested in a southern state is 'something of substance'. Along with thousands of other incidents



Africans in America/Part 4/Narrative: Fugitive Slaves and Northern Racism

If you take the time to read that (and you probably won't), your eyes (maybe, but doubtful) will open a little. I'll save you a click:



But let's get back to today - because today is what really matters, and because I believe your view of history is not fully developed because maybe you believed everything you were told? I don't know. That's for you to figure out I guess...

Do you think racism doesn't exist beyond the borders of the South? Do you think there is no racism out west? And when you speak of racism, what exactly are you referring to? Are you speaking of white racism against blacks? Do you acknowledge there is also prevalent in our country severe racism against whites by blacks? Do you think this black against white racism is more prominent in the south? I bet you don't. Are you aware that an organization of blacks set out to intimidate whites at voting polls in 2008 because they wanted a black man in the oval office? Are you aware that the Obama administration dropped these cases, in Philadelphia and all across the country, on purpose? [b] not sure

Let me tell you something about you. You're hearing the talking points. You've been indoctrinated by 6th grade history books that didn't even begin to tell the whole story. You don't want to open up to the real problems about race in this country because you don't care, to be truthful, about them. You only care about what you think you know and you aren't willing to fully embrace the issue. More rhetoric and conspiracy bullsh**. Don't tell me how I think or what I know. I was raised in the north and have lived in DC, New England and then moved down south, first to Columbia, SC and then Atlanta. I saw within days the pervasive racism. I can't count the number of times I heard the N-word dropped in public like it was nothing.

You sir seem to be quite willing to promote overgeneralizations about not only white people but about an entire geographic area! You can point to isolated instances of racism in the southern United States and I can in turn single out, say, Oakland, where racism against white people is fostered, supported, and in so many ways encouraged. The most racial city: Oakland or Dallas? Now there's a question. I have lived in and around both. I know the answer...the REAL answer. The CORRECT answer. Do you?

are you really comparing a city of a half a million people to an 8 state region? That comparison right there proves my statement about the south.

Wow, after all the relevant information Sainfan posted that's what you counter with? Really?

You just got your ass stomped dude. Don't feel bad, Saintfan has stomped many a liberal ass with relevant facts. I truly admire his ability to slap liberals around without losing his temper. I wish I could stay as calm as he does. I get so frustrated with liberal ignorance and elitism that I end up making enemies with personal attacks instead of calmly exposing their flawed logic and elitist extremism.