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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; spkb...are you saying because a person(s) are poor they will be better off staying in a shelter? I was a volunteer Wed. & Thurs of this week and I for one can tell you those people will prefer to be ...

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Old 09-10-2005, 12:35 AM   #11
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RE: And That

spkb...are you saying because a person(s) are poor they will be better off staying in a shelter? I was a volunteer Wed. & Thurs of this week and I for one can tell you those people will prefer to be able go bathroom alone, sit on a couch or chair and watch what they want to watch on T.V., hell they will like to sleep on a bed instead of cots. They have absolutely no privacy. I can't see how they are better off. What kinda impression did you get out of her comments? I have been sitting around seeing how the Republicans or Bush's staff will downplay it but it seems like they are being mute about it or they figured the $2000 debit card will overplay it. Kanye West say Bush do not like BLACKS, but I think if he would've said POOR, I think he would've been right on the money?
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Old 09-10-2005, 02:10 AM   #12
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RE: And That

Bush did not create a hurricane, but did he create a war? Not by himself, mind you, but through advice of his party and the advisors he chooses to listen to. Did that war cause the country to be limited in it's ability to aid in national disasters such as Katrina? Was the reason for the war worth the price we are paying now?
Did anyone ever stop to think that maybe the only blame to be placed would be squarely on the shoulders of those families who decided not to leave.
First off:
Saint LB, you have struck a nerve with me. I am currently in Iraq and have seen more than enough reasons WHY we should be here. I can not go into details with you because of OPSEC. I am sick and tired of people bashing this war we are in. Everyone agrees that Saddam should have been taken out of power but NOBODY wanted to do it. I am sick and tired of people using Soldiers deaths as a reason to get out. I have watched friends of mine die here and don't you F*ckin make it seem like they died for nothing. Here is a clue, if you don't support the war, how can you say you support the guys fighting the war. Quit riding the fence! If your not with us, then sit down on your couch and watch it on TV quietly.

Cheramiell, Great point! when are people going to start taking responsibility for themselves. I am sick and tired of hearing "Oh they are poor or black or white or what ever"! I have been poor! To this day I DO NOT eat toast because that was all we had to eat. I busted my azz and bettered myself and now I own a home, and have a job in the military that pays pretty damn good. Americans have become the laziest people on the planet. I am sick and F'IN tired of this racial SH*T. Take some responsiblity for your, YOUR life! QUIT LETTING MOVIE STARS AND RAPPERS TELL YOU ABOUT REALITY!
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 09-10-2005, 07:40 AM   #13
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Re: RE: And That

Originally Posted by SapperSaint
Bush did not create a hurricane, but did he create a war? Not by himself, mind you, but through advice of his party and the advisors he chooses to listen to. Did that war cause the country to be limited in it's ability to aid in national disasters such as Katrina? Was the reason for the war worth the price we are paying now?
First off:
Saint LB, you have struck a nerve with me. I am currently in Iraq and have seen more than enough reasons WHY we should be here. I can not go into details with you because of OPSEC. I am sick and tired of people bashing this war we are in. Everyone agrees that Saddam should have been taken out of power but NOBODY wanted to do it. I am sick and tired of people using Soldiers deaths as a reason to get out. I have watched friends of mine die here and don't you F*ckin make it seem like they died for nothing. Here is a clue, if you don't support the war, how can you say you support the guys fighting the war. Quit riding the fence! If your not with us, then sit down on your couch and watch it on TV quietly.
Apparently you only read the part of my post that would allow you go go off on a rant...that's understandable. Being over there must be really difficult. Here is part of what I wrote:

My intentions here are to bring up questions for debate, and determine which way I fall based on the arguments I hear.
Going off on me for asking questions that need to be asked didn't change my opinion of anything. Where are the WMD's? We've already taken Sadaam out of power...why are we still there? There is probably a good answer to that question...I just don't know what it is. There are other countries that pose every bit the threat Iraq poses, if not much more. Why aren't we at war with them? These are legitimate questions...I am looking for legitimate answers.
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Old 09-10-2005, 08:21 AM   #14
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RE: And That

nola i have slpet on a space just big enough to fit my 5'10 body. with one rack underneath me and one right on top of me. i have had water restriction, or certain hours i could shower and been told what the length of those showers could be. have had ****ters backed up. had to go to someone elses berthing to ****. i was in boot camp man no privacy. do me a favor nola don't sing me the blues. i can't imagine what it is like to loose everything but you either get on living or you get on doing nothing. the world is moving on with or without you. like i said in another post we all have a sad story. some worse then others. there will always be people with better lives then you and people with lives worse then yours. if you don't like your situation, change it. IT IS NOONE ELSES RESPONSIBILITY. it is your own. for what the situation those people were in to sleeping on cots, well you figure it out. it is all your attitude. life throws all kinds of crap at you and the only thing you can control is your attitude. you can ***** and moan all you want but after you are done venting you better get a plan. you better do something. waiting for someone else to do it for you , well that leaves you on a cot in the astrodome. they have shelter and they have food nola. that is more then they had a little while ago. what would you like us as tax payers do buy them all new homes. at some point you have to get off of the cot and get out and find a job. get an apartment and start rebuilding your life the best you can.

nola if you make the people there completely comfortable to where they have no wants or desires where is their motivation to take back their life. they will just live off a system that will do for them. so them being uncomfortable porvides reason for them to rebuild their life. haven't we seen enough of our tax dollars going to programs that make people lazy and give them a sense of entitlement. our system of help is so flawed. you are given just enough and then if you go to work they take that away. maybe you still need a portion of it even though you are working. we should reward the ones that go to work and help them even more for a certain period of time. we should also decrease benfits for those that don't go to work every year that passes. i also do not donate any school supplies for children who for one reason or another their parents can't get it for them. i feel it feeds more into that mindset and you are now teaching the next generation, well you don't have to do for yourself other people will. i would donate to them however as much as one or two children needed for an entire year if they had a car wash for the supplies. where the kids on a saturday or sunday actually went out and learned a little bit about earning something. or if they raked my yard even if they didnt do a good job. or they helped me wash my car. anything to teach them that you can earn something if you are willing to work for it. i will not allow myself to help those children learn what could turn out to be a very costly lesson. if their parents can't show them the way then we should. you don't do that by giving and asking nothing in return.

in conclusion you can not teach anyone by giving to them and they had to do nothing for it. some people will do for themselves regardless. a lot will find themselves stuck in the same situation as the prior generation.

sappersaint i thought your post was excellent and it is exactly my point. noone will do for you except yourself. if we all just looked at one color, green, we would all be better off. thank you so much for fighting for me in iraq. please be careful, godspeed. to you and you family i respect so much your contribution to my freedom and safety. i can not say thank you enough or ever tell you how grateful i am to you. to all you guys over there please know we all love you guys and want you all back as soon as you are ready. we know you will complete your mission.

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Old 09-10-2005, 10:38 AM   #15
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Re: RE: And That

Going off on me for asking questions that need to be asked didn't change my opinion of anything. Where are the WMD's? We've already taken Sadaam out of power...why are we still there? There is probably a good answer to that question...I just don't know what it is. There are other countries that pose every bit the threat Iraq poses, if not much more. Why aren't we at war with them? These are legitimate questions...I am looking for legitimate answers.
The question you should be asking are this: Why do they pose a threat to USA?
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Old 09-10-2005, 10:59 AM   #16
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First of all, SapperSaint, Thank you for serving, you have my deepest gratitude, Thats no ****.
Many whgo pointed fingers about not enough national guard in our country to help, only 18% of them are over seas. If 18% can make that large of an impact, we are in bigger trouble than we think. Lets see why maybe the Feds were so slow to help.


Politics over duty

This is a post from a fellow over in Merritt Is, FL, a reporter who's been researching what went on before the storm hit

I think all of Nagin's pomp and posturing is going to bite him hard in the near future as the lies and distortions of his interviews are coming to light.

On Friday night before the storm hit Max Mayfield of the National Hurricane Center took the unprecedented action of calling Nagin and Blanco personally to plead with them to begin MANDATORY evacuation of New Orleans and they said they'd take it under consideration. This was after the NOAA buoy 240 miles south had recorded 68' waves before it was destroyed.

President Bush spent Friday afternoon and evening in meetings with his advisors and administrators drafting all of the paperwork required for a state to request federal assistance (and not be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act or having to enact the Insurgency Act).

Just before midnight Friday evening the President called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sign the request papers so the federal government and the military could legally begin mobilization and call up.

He was told that they didn't think it necessary for the federal government to be involved yet. After the President's final call to the governor she held meetings with her staff to discuss the political ramifications of bringing federal forces. It was decided that if they allowed federal assistance it would make it look as if they had failed so it was agreed upon that the feds would not be invited in.

Saturday before the storm hit the President again called Blanco and Nagin requesting they please sign the papers requesting federal assistance, that they declare the state an emergency area, and begin mandatory evacuation.

After a personal plea from the President, Mayor Nagin agreed to order an evacuation, but it would not be a full mandatory evacuation, and the governor still refused to sign the papers requesting and authorizing federal action.

In frustration the President declared the area a national disaster area before the state of Louisiana did so he could legally begin some advanced preparations. Rumor has it that the President's legal advisers were looking into the ramifications of using the insurgency act to bypass the Constitutional requirement that a state request federal aid before the federal government can move into state with troops - but that had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality of it was called into question to use before the disaster.

Throw in that over half the federal aid of the past decade to New Orleans for levee construction, maintenance, and repair was diverted to fund a marina and support the gambling ships.

Toss in the investigation that will look into why the emergency preparedness plan submitted to the federal government for funding and published on the city's website was never implemented and in fact may have been bogus for the purpose of gaining additional federal funding as we now learn that the organizations identified in the plan were never contacted or coordinating into any planning - though the document implies that they were.

The suffering people of New Orleans need to be asking some hard questions as do we all, but they better start with why Blanco refused to even sign the multi-state mutual aid pack activation documents until Wednesday which further delayed the legal deployment of National Guard from adjoining states.

Or maybe ask why Nagin keeps harping that the President should have commandeered 500 Greyhound busses to help him when according to his own emergency plan and documents he claimed to have over 500 busses at his disposal to use between the local school busses and the city transportation busses - but he never raised a finger to prepare them or activate them.

This is a sad time for all of us to see that a major city has all but been destroyed and thousands of people have died with hundreds of thousands more suffering, but it's certainly not a time for people to be pointing fingers and trying to find a bigger dog to blame for local corruption and incompetence. Pray to God for the survivors that they can start their lives anew as fast as possible and we learn from all the mistakes to avoid them in the future.
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Old 09-10-2005, 11:03 AM   #17
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RE: Re: RE: And That

crusader you have to look on a broader scale. the entire area poses the threat. you hope by getting a more friendly goivernemnt in iraq and one not ruled by a dictatorship that it will be a beacon TO THE PEOPLE of that area. if you look at where iraq is located amongst the other nations there it makes a lot of sense. it isn't just about iraq in the long run. all i know is that we were told if we went into iraq and afghanistan that we would see the level of attacks in this country go up. um hasn't happened. when someone rapes your mother you don't ask them why they did and what you can do to make them not want to do it again. you kill them. anyway i don't want to get into this argument because it should be in a different forum.

If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?
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Old 09-10-2005, 11:11 AM   #18
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I agree, I have heard all the above. Except for the Mayor did call for a mandatory evacuation but did not back it up... he didn't follow up to insure that people were leaving and since he didn't have support of the state nor the state allowing feds in there was no busses, trucks or guard to get people out of there homes. When there is a call for a mandatory evacuation, troops need to go in and get people out. IF they refuse... short of actually forceable pulling them out they are suppose to sign a waiver letting them know that in case something does happen they are not intittled to emergency relief and help. They will be on there on for everything. So in some reguard the mayor gets a pass on this one... but he needs to better organize and better prepare in case situation as this... they had a WORSE CASE SENIREO plan where the hell was it.

E U P H O R I A
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Old 09-10-2005, 07:41 PM   #19
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RE: Re: RE: And That

spk.. I agree that other people have some kinda hardship in their lives, but I don't think it is appropiate for Barbara Bush to claim they better off. I don't get what you saying cause I never implied it was our responsibilty. It seems that you need to read my post again. The subject is the people of NO is BETTER OFF IN SHELTER.

Once you finish bootcamp (9-10 weeks) you go to AIT (8- 10 weeks depend on MOS) after that you recieve a since of a little independence. Think bout the living situation if you had to endure 6mths with the guys of bootcamp. If you say you can endure it I show you a liar. In AIT it will be a great chance you were bunk with a couple roommates 4 at the most (50 at the most if you were living in bay quarters) try 10,000. I agree that the people in the shelter should try to find jobs and regain their own independence, but be real it is going to take some evacuee more than a year to get some comfort back.

Once again, I ask you do you think they better off living in a shelter?
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Old 09-11-2005, 02:07 AM   #20
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RE: Re: RE: And That

Look guys I can not and will not go into details. Iraq is not a threat now. Believe me I am all for leaving this place, but, if we do and the Iraqi Gov. is not in place.....we'll be right back over here fighting again. I do feel that once this is over we take care of ourselves. Then if anyone messes with us we spank them and who ever has anything to say about it. LB I think you may have me wrong. I we need to make our country strong again and no I don't know how to start it. I do think a great first step would be for people to admit "Hey, you know what I F**Ked all this up, not this gyu or this guy over here but ME".
I will never tell an American he can not voice his opinon, if I did I don't deserve to wear my uniform.

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