Defense
 

BonB is right, this Haslett coached team has a way of making 3rd string QB's look like Joe Montana. It's been going on for years. Remember the Lions game a few years ago? Joey Harrington looked like Steve Young on crack.

I'm telling you it's the culture of this team, which comes with coaching.

.. and here I thought the mods finally got rid of the forum retard...

... oh, well...

.. and a good offense with a great QB would've converted that last 3rd down to seal the game too ...so what?

Do I really have to do this all over again???

Whats your point... he made a point our Defense sucked do you disagree with that?

Re: Defense
 

I think the point Tobias is making is the thread has meaning, but it's obviously pointed at a person. BonB, your point is welcome, but lets not point people out. You can do the same thing by saying it without jumping on TR or any other member.

I'm writing this out in the open so everyone will read it and know... say what you have to say but the personal vendettas and attacks are reall getting out of hand and everyone is tired of reading it. And that goes for everyone. If you want to have it out with another member, jump in the "Ultimate Smack" forum and have at it.

As for your point...
 

BonB is right, this Haslett coached team has a way of making 3rd string QB's look like Joe Montana. It's been going on for years. Remember the Lions game a few years ago? Joey Harrington looked like Steve Young on crack.

I'm telling you it's the culture of this team, which comes with coaching.

I'm confused....... :annoy:

What? I'm trying to do an accounting project which was already boggling my mind, and now I have to read this?!?!?! :messedup:

What I meant is "here we go again"... that's what I meant...

The original post I made (Saints defense has actually played well) that broke down each game was deleted because BoB went ballistic in it...

.. I thought it was a good post, and expected debate on the merits of the analysis, not just a "the defense sucks" and "they have given this many points a game" responses...

..it seems that is ok to put down the pass defense because of the run defense.. yet it's not ok to put down the offense for putting the defense in bad situations with their league leading 28 turnovers and dismal 3rd down conversion rate...

.. I say that no team is going to win a game if the y turn the ball 5-6 times, and I get in response Panthers' stats of games they turned the ball over 5 times during 2003 (nevermind the LOST that game, further validating my point) and that Jake sucks...

.. of course, God forbid I want to be positive about the defense... oh, no.. the true fans are the ones who praise and are positive about the offense only.. now I'm South Carolina fan because of that... it's only the offense that deserves support ftom the true fans.

Well, I tried... I tried to initiate an adult discussion on the merits of each individual game...

... what's the use... I'll stick to sarcasm that goes over most folks' heads...

TR, I appreciated your post dude, it was well thought out. It is unfair it got scrapped because of one consistent problem, but it doesn't seem like it's gonna change so my only suggestion is that those of us who wanna have an honest, above board convo, ignore the problem. Let him make his stupid comments, repeated spelling errors, insults, put downs, statements with no backing whatsoever, flat out lies to prove some point only he believes, etc. etc. etc. I noticed you have been more vocal on the board and moved away from simply making one liners, and it was good to see dude. Don't let one person change the way you wanna participate on the board. I guarantee right now if there was a vote of who people wanted to hear more from, you or the other guy, you'd win in a landslide. I also guarantee pretty much everyone here, with the exception of maybe two people, would vote this guy off the forum if we had a say, but we don't. So ignore it as best you can. I am guilty of falling for the BS too, so I am not trying to stand on a pulpit here. I just don't wanna see you change from the poster you had become because of one troublemaker.

Ditto.

As you could see in the thread, I was totally prepared to discuss the defense's "averageness" and the fact that they had given us a chance to win some of the games that we had lost.

There are some very bad stats out there....17 straight qtrs giving up points, the run D, etc.... But as soon as we started a dialogue about the D actually giving us a chance to win, it got drug back to elementary school.

I'll say this...think back to the year where we didn't get in when we could have by beating carolina in the last game (was that '02 ?). We scored 6 points and let the Falcons in. If I am not mistaken, that was the first game we held the other team below 20 all year. The D has consistently given up lower point totals than they did in the past. Now, I know that I can't say that without being accused of comparing the Saints to the 85 bears, but it's a fact. The D is less porous than it used to be from a scoring standpoint. They are still avergage to below average, but they are, in my opinion, not as bad as our offense.

Keep 'em coming TR...there are those of us who want to engage in informed sports opinion. Like...Jessica Alba....would you do her? Discuss. :P

Thanks, SW and Yasoon. I appreciate the words.

I too got a little caught up in the thing as well, even going as far as throwing a bad stat out there, the 2000 Ravens' points allowed, and I never ever throw averages/ stats as proof of anything. The one thing I can tell you that stat was an honest mistake, which I acknowledged after Wheelman pointed out my mistake..


Lemme go on a tangent, before I get the "you used stats on your original post"; I didn't. There is a huge difference between saying "they are giving 28.9 points per game" and saying "they went 0-11 on 3rd down conversions". The former is a stat, the latter is the actual result of a game. If anyone wants an explanation, I'll be glad to explain...

...but I digress :)

Again, thanks guys for the words. I love defense, and I've been down the past 3-4 years because of the play of the defense... as bad as the whole thing is, I am actually a little excited about signs of live by the D.

OK, I won't point fingers at a single individual...But everyone knows this teams defense bites the stinky dogs butt.

Every team we've played this year with the exception of the opening Carolina game, we've caught them severly at their worse, Giants and Vikings, Greenbay, Pat's now the Jets. I'm talking about playing these teams 3rd and 4th string offenses with our starting defense; and our defense can't stop a leaky faucet.

Talk about our offense year round 12 times on sunday, until you can stop a opponent(which we haven't been able to do since Haslett got here) you can't be a good football team...Everything is second priority to the defense, everything!

I also don't think the defense is as bad as most people think either. T-R makes some very good points. Sure it's easy to look at the overall defensive ranking and say we stink (even though we're in the middle of the pack), but you have to look at the other stat colums too.

We're last in turnover differential at -13 (28 total TO's) If you keep giving the ball to the opponents offense, they're probably gonna outscore you. We turned the ball over on the opening kickoff in weeks 2 and 3, giving the opponent a very short field, then followed that with a punt on the next posession in both games. Then against the Packers in week 4, AB threw an INT for a TD on the 3rd posession, followed by another INT in Saints territory on the 4th posession. The best defense is a good offense.

I disagree that the D is really any better than in the past couple of years. The difference now is that the offense is not putting up the kind of numbers that they had in the past. Thus, opposing teams aren't needing to score as much resulting in better D stats. The thing is...in close games against even moderately good offenses, the defense is not reliably capable of preventing a score. In most games I feel very confident that when the other team needs a score they can get it. Problem this year is our offense hasn't given opposing D's much need to score.