Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

In deference to the moderator, I thought to myself, "Self, why don't you start a new thread so we can argue about #2 some more."

So I did.

Aaron Brooks is being carried by the talented offensive supporting cast around him. He is Kordell Stewart with more talent at the skill positions.

Bashers Unite!

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

LOL!! I AGREE!!

Actually, Kordel has taken his team to a championship game. When did Brooks ever do that?!?! LOL

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

I\'ll respond to this thread with something intelligent when someone posts something intelligent...good thing I have plenty of time to wait.

<--- :D

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Hopefully it does not take as much time as waiting for those Brooks leadership skills to surface on the playing field .

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Hey \"08\", I think the Carolina board misses you...better hurry back

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

John Elway
Year Team Comp Att Comp% Yds Yd/Att TD INT Sacked-Yds Rating
1983 Den 123 259 47.5 1663 6.4 7 14 28- 218 54.9
1984 Den 214 380 56.3 2598 6.8 18 15 24- 158 76.8
1985 Den 327 605 54.0 3891 6.4 22 23 38- 307 70.2
John Elway rating for first 3 years: 67.3

Donovan McNabb
1999 Philadelphia Eagles 12 6 216 106 49.1 948 4.39 63 8 7 60.1
2000 Philadelphia Eagles 16 16 569 330 58.0 3365 5.91 70 21 13 77.8
2001 Philadelphia Eagles 16 16 493 285 57.8 3233 6.56 64 25 12 84.3
Donovan McNabb rating for first 3 years: 74.0

Roger Staubach
1973 DAL 14 179 286 62.6 2,428 8.49 23 15 94.6 46 250 5.4 3 5 18
1974 DAL 14 190 360 52.8 2,552 7.09 11 15 68.4 47 320 6.8 3 7 18
1975 DAL 13 198 348 56.9 2,666 7.66 17 16 78.5 55 316 5.7 4 5 24
Roger Staubach rating for first 3 years: 80.5

Aaron Brooks
2000 New Orleans Saints 8 5 194 113 58.2 1514 7.80 53 9 6 85.7
2001 New Orleans Saints 16 16 558 312 55.9 3832 6.87 63 26 22 76.4
2002 New Orleans Saints 16 16 528 283 53.6 3572 6.77 64 27 15 80.1
Aaron Brooks rating for first 3 years: 80.7


Someone say QB stats? What can be a better way to judge Aaron Brooks than to look back at the first 3 years of some other great quarterbacks and see how Aaron Brooks measures up. Would everyone agree that is fair? I\'m going to assume you agree.

If we listen to WhoDat and judge Staubach, Elway, and McNabb the same way he is judging Brooks then WhoDat would have said these QB\'s didn\'t fit the system. He can deny it, but it\'s true none -the -less. After all, we are using quarteback effiency ratings. Not yardage, or TD\'s or any of that other stuff. Right WhoDat?

Luckily for Staubach, Elway, and Mcnabb, their coaches knew it took time for a QB to develop. They weren\'t quick to have knee jerk reactions like WhoDat and cut the guys because they weren\'t perfect in their first 3 years.

I can\'t understand WhoDats logic for wanting to get rid of Brooks. Can any of you understand it? If you can, please, I beg you to explain it to me !!


WhoDat -- Can you explain to the good people here why Staubach, Elway, and McNabb aren\'t right for their system? I\'m all ears..............







[Edited on 18/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Billy --

I gave up on the QB rating argument last year. At the time they had their collective head so far up jakes azz there was no reasoning with \'em...still isn\'t, but you\'re welcome to try.

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

saintsfan --

I know. WhoDat is quick to throw that QB effiency rating out there, but when it\'s proven that some great QB\'s had worse ratings than Brooks -- He doesn\'t want to hear that. You would think by listening to WhoDat that he has some quarterback training experience. I think that fantasy football has him screwed up.

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Comparing him to other QB\'s is unjustified and I have to call you out on this.


Especially McNabb. You can\'t compare them.

But if you say it\'s okay, then we\'ll start.

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Actually I\'m just messing around with WhoDat. There is no winning this arguement.

But show me what you got LummOX --

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Hang on....at work right now and can\'t spend enough time. I\'ll be back.


P.S. I like Aaron....said that before. Just up for arguing to these last couple days.

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

I\'ll ask this one time. Billy, do you really want me to dive head first into comparing quarterbacks by efficienct rating? Really? Now think about this for a second, b/c I\'ll go through hundreds of numbers, and trust me, Brooks will not be higher than average. You found three guys. I can find three hundred.

Additionally, how is it possible that you and Saintfan whine and moan about how it\'s not fair to compare a QB playing TODAY to another one b/c the systems are different but it\'s OK to compare Brooks to guys who played 20 and 30 years ago when the enitre game and talent level were very different? Oh, right, b/c you found a few guys and used them to make your point. That\'s why.

One more thing - a low efficiency rating does not mean a QB is wrong for his system. Playing style does. McNabb, for example, is a playmaker. He makes a lot happen on his own, and for that he gives up efficiency. Gannon, on the other hand, cannot do much on his own, and as a result, he is very efficient. Teams with lots of weapons should have an efficient QB - they already have playmakers. Teams with few weapons should have playmakers at QB. Get it? That\'s why Atlanta, Philly, and Minnesota have athletic, inefficient playmakers, and teams like Oakland, Pittsburgh, and St. Louis have immobile efficient quarterbacks. Is that really that hard to understand? B/c I\'ve explained it to you about a thousand times and you still don\'t seem to get it.

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

WhoDat --

So now it\'s playing style eh? Not completion percentage or QB effiency rating that you\'ve been driving in the ground for the better part of 4 months. Unbelieveable!! That\'s all I have to say is Unbelieveable.

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

McNabb hasn\'t been much of a playmaker so far this year Whodat...wanna bench his azz?

You rekon Aikman was a playmaker? You rekon he had some weapons? How \'bout \'ol Elway up there in Denver? You rekon HE was a playmaker? You rekon HE has some weapons?

This thing with McNabb was brought up after week one for ONE reason Whodat, and it wasn\'t to compare anything other than YOUR reaction to poor play...deisgned to prove that for ANY OTHER QB IN THE FREAKIN LEAGUE you\'re willing to make an excuse.....A-N-Y-B-O-D-Y but BROOKS.

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

No Billy, QB efficiency and completion percentages are a good way to compare quarterbacks. However, I\'m not saying that any QB is wrong for a system b/c of efficiency rating. Style of play is a big part of how a QB fits into a system.

Now you two want to compare those stats? OK.

I looked at the CURRENT starting QBs in the league that have at least 2+ years of starting experience (since Brooks does not himself have 3 full years yet). About a third of the current starters in the league were ruled out due to too little time as a starer, and I don\'t want Billy crying when guys like Pennington and Bulger have 100+ efficiency ratings in far fewer games than Brooks (yeah - less games, less time to mature, still better ratings - and you know Billy would moan). I also did not compare their first three years, as Billy did not, but rather the first three season from the time that they became the starter (as Billy did with Brooks). Here are the results:

Garcia - 90.1
Hassleback - 87.7
Johnson - 87.6
Gannon - 86.3
Brunell - 85.9
Culpepper - 85.5
Manning - 85.5
Green - 84.9
Brady - 84.5
Favre - 82.7
McNabb - 82.7
Fiedler - 81.1
Brooks - 80.7

Of the CURRENT starting QBs in the league, with at least 2+ years of starting experience (23 total players I think), Aaron Brooks ranks 13th. He\'s not even in the top ten against CURRENT starters. Throw in guys like Bulger, Pennington, and Holcomb and he\'s even lower. Now, do you two want me to go back another 30 years!?! Really? I\'ll bet he\'s not in the top 50 or maybe even 100.

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Look to me like he\'s right where he needs to be. What number should he be at?

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Who Dat ,

Here is the solution for the rating system , and a truley great way to judge Brooks . It leads to little interpretation and can point out rather effectively where Brooks is .....

Was gonna save it for Saintsfan but work recently is a real nag ....

Rate Brooks in comparison to only West Coast offense quarterbacks , it eliminates the how do you judge them question .

They are judged by their efficiency in the West coast offense .

Elway was always throwing garbage balls , because he was looking for the deep routes open and trying to hit them .

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

I am dizzy with saintfan and 08. I can\'t remember who is pro brooks and anti brooks. they tend to change so often.

On second thought I am confused on this whole board as far as who is Pro AB and Anti AB! HELP!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I need to just stop coming here after a few totties.

[Edited on 19/9/2003 by FWtex]

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

FW, just a quick refresher, I am a Brooks basher

:o

Who knew?

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Saintsfan - has that positive twist on Brooks

Saintz08 - Has the negative twist on Brooks

Gator - just chews them all to pieces , when they have been naughty ....

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Hey think of Aaron brooks as you do our president. People can disagree on our president all they want during peace times (aka. the offseason) but in times of war we have to put our differences aside and all support the president and our troops. So since the Saints are at War now we should focus on supporting them and worry about a change of office during the off season!


Brooks in 2004!

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Wouldn\'t you think of Brooks as more the field general ??

Leader in the trenches with the men ??

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

By WhoDat:


WhoDat -- Just for you ------ ;)



[Edited on 19/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Billy ,

Would you call Brooks a good touch passer ????

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Define touch

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Let me just say this about Aaron Brooks and the West Coast Offense. I\'ve already showed where Bill Walsh said a mobile QB was key to running a West Coast Offense, which y\'all have so wrongly been saying it was wrong for.

Second -- Aaron is more than capiable of making any throw on the field as far as I\'m concerned. What y\'all fail to realize is that this offense doen\'t throw a lot of those 5 to 10 yard high completion percentage passes. If we did then his QB completion percentage would be WAY up there.

As far as touch passes. I thought before Aaron got hurt last year that he was extremely accurate. I think he puts as much touch on his passes as Brett Favre.

He\'s not perfect though.

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Touch pass: a soft throw from the quarterback that a receiver can easily and gently catch

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Oh, you mean like the one he threw to Donte for a touch down last week? All day long !!

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Ok, mobility is a plus in a west coast scheme, but it isn\'t mandatory. Montana moved around, but wasn\'t really a big running QB. Steve Young ran a lot. Both of them had success in the system, but Brooks isn\'t a west coast QB by any stretch of the imagination.

But let\'s think about what defines a \"west coast\" offense and how our man Brooks fits into it.

1. An offense predicated on traps, slants, crossing patterns, and outs--Well Duece certainly fits this system well (I even happen to think Duece would be a better power back than many people give him credit for though), but Brooks is a complete mystery to me here. I don\'t think Brooks is sharp enough to keep track of where everyone is supposed to be.

2. An offense predicated on a QB being able to read the defense and deliver the ball quickly--Brooks has never shown that he can do either of these things. I disagree with Detiller here. I don\'t think Brooks holds the ball too long because he\'s looking for the big play. I think Brooks holds the ball for the length of a Bible because he honestly doesn\'t know what to do with it; other than, \"wait for Joe to get open\"

3. An offense that emphasizes the horizontal field rather than the downfield passing game--Brooks is always waiting for separation from the receivers. He doesn\'t throw the trademarks of that offense. He\'s always looking for the hail mary or the dump it off to Duece.

4. An offense that empahsizes the QB\'s footwork and mechanics -- Now the space cadet isn\'t a poster child for either of these things, let\'s be honest here.

5. An offense that emphasizes timing patterns and touch passes -- Brooks can\'t throw either of these. Every pass is a line drive. The Saints don\'t throw the touch pass with Brooks. As for timing patterns, forget it. Brooks is always backing out of his protection and waiting for the receivers to shake their coverage.

Whatever sort of offense we\'re running, I guarantee you it isn\'t west coast.

I am convinced that we have the hardest working and most underpaid receiving corps in the league. Joe Horn is constantly shaking his coverage and going to find a passing lane so that Brooks can throw a fastball. Its like the receiver has to go find the lane and then basically stand in it so that Brooks can throw it to him.

I think if I were to make a real comparison, I would call Aaron Brooks the black Jeff George. Lazy, bad habits, me-first attitude and always believing that his cannon arm can get him out of any jam he gets himself into. Jeff George is also notorious for crushing the careers of a lot of coaches who repeated the mantra, \"Jeff has incredible athletic ability, he just needs time to develop in our system, but I totally believe we have a potential hall of fame quarterback here.\"

You have to admit that a lot of Brooks yardage comes as junk yards that come late in games that the Saints don\'t end up winning. Who cares if you throw 150 yards in the fourth quarter and end up losing? So let\'s give the Brooks as west coast QB a rest, there\'s really no way.

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

One he threw , is the key to that sentenance .

Although I must admit , since he has taken over as the starter that was the nicest looking pass he has thrown .It looked like it even shocked Donte .

Blind squirrels do find a nut every now and then ......

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

BMG -- Don\'t argue with me -- Argue with Bill Walsh !! :P :P :P

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

BMG --

Just some food for thought for you here. How much credibility do you think you have since you are a sef-proclaimed \"Brooks Basher\"???

Another thing. You need to read up on the \"West Coast\" offense and find out what it\'s really about.

Why do you have to throw out the term \"Black man\'s Jeff Geroge\" ???

You sound like you have some coaching experience??? Bad coaching experience that is.

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

quarterback must be a poised leader who manages a team well. He should be accurate and be able to throw all the different types of passes. He needs to quickly read defenses and get rid of the ball quickly. Because of the deception involved in the WCO, a good ball handler is a big plus. Most importantly, a quarterback\'s teammates must believe in him. (Now the deal with mobility goes to Walsh using Virgil Carter, who was smart, could run but didn\'t have much arm. However, he was REALLY accurate; two big keyes that Brooks doesn\'t have)

wide receivers must be good (precise) route runners. They need to be able to read defenses and adjust their routes during the play based on the coverage as it develops. They should have good hands, be quick in and out of their cuts (to separate from defenders), and be good runners after the catch (the WCO depends on yards after the catch).

tight ends must be able to read defenses, get open, and make the clutch catch over the middle of the defense. Getting off the line of scrimmage quickly is critical.

running backs must be good receivers, have good hands and be able to pick up the blitz. Elusiveness is also a big plus since the running back will be able to pick up big yardage after the catch if he can make one or two defenders miss.

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Actually I said \"the black Jeff George\"

Which is kind of like saying James Bond is \"the white Shaft\". We call that an analogy

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Blah Blah Blah Blah....

How many times do I have to prove you guys wrong. It\'s really no fun anymore..

All I hear y\'all doing is changing your arguement. First it\'s completion percentage. Then passer rating. Then a mobile QB isn\'t suppose to be in a West Coast Offense.

Now it\'s touch passes. Whatever the case may be he led the league in TD passes last year and he\'s considered by the experts to be in the top 10 QB\'s in the league.

Keep whining though -- I like it !! I love it -- I want some more of it !!

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Actually my argument is always the same: Brooks is a me-first player who can\'t throw all the passes a modern QB needs to throw and he isn\'t very smart. There\'s no flavor of the week argumentation going on here.

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Not smart enough? Mike Holgren seemed to think he was smart enough. Mike McCarthy seemed to think he is smart enough. You act as if you know the guy personally and have given him an IQ test or something.

I\'ve seen Brooks make every throw in the book numerous times. The only question is can Brooks take his game to the next level. I fully expect him to do that this year.

Flavor of the week?? Get out of the man\'s azz !!

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

As soon as he stops sounds, acting and playing like an azz, I\'ll get off his azz.

Aaron Brooks = Jeff George

Quarterback Stats Revealed
 

Hey billy dont stress yourself out about BMG, I think he is just one of those Tampa Bay guys who were posting a lot the last few months, just trying to get all our fans worked up. They like to use those funny little smiley faces and his looks suspiciously like a tampa bay loser. Don\'t bother wasting your breath on his silly topics. Of course we could always get someone who would be a better quarterback, but there is no one out there who we could get that would be better than Brooks right now end of story.