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Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
Somebody needs to paint targets on the receivers' hands...maybe then he could throw a pass to somewhere other than their feet.
At this point he oughtta try tossin' it left-handed...or underhand...or maybe (here's a novel thought) Haslett oughtta bench him and get some money's worth outta Bouman. |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
BEHOLD! Aaron Brooks has remembered what legs are for. Now, how \'bout that arm?
All kidding aside, his inconsistency is killing this team. |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
I just listened to an after-the-game interview on the radio with Brooks. He was asked by Kenny Wilkerson how he felt winning this game after struggling in the first half. His answer was astonishing. He said he didn\'t think he struggled at all and, in fact, \"they\'re a good football team\".
So...he didn\'t think he struggled at all. I tell ya, the guy is simply oblivious to reality. What first half was he in? I\'m glad they won, I\'m glad he started running but until he wakes up I don\'t see him as the longterm solution. |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
I was also surprised at his nonchalance about the first half. Man-ning! Man-ning!
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Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
I\'m not sure I want to get hauled into the animosity here, but I\'ll take a crack at why Brooks has a somewhat nonchallant attitude.
First, everyone deals with stress differently. People who have commented on his similing et cetera , obviously have a different method. What difference does it make if he scowls, or frowns, or smiles for that matter as long as he goes back on the field and gives it his all. Some people just lead by doing. I don\'t think I\'ve seen Brooks \"just give up\" - even if he has looked stupid on the sideline. Second, what do you want your leader to say, \"Yeah, I sucked it up out there. If I had played better, we\'d be winning.\" Boy, I bet that would make him a player favorite in the locker room? Perhaps in the same way every good Corner has to have a short memory, so too does a Quarterback? That is, it is the coaches\' job to get the QB to see what he is not seeing, but if a QB gets all down on himself he will only second guess himself over and over again. Of course, this is just a suggestion, and I wouldn\'t want Brooks beating me with his eyes (ha ha). At any rate, that is just some food for thought. I\'ve always felt that is the guy who leads by example AND leads with his voice who is the best leader. Thus, Brooks is, at best, half a leader. However, it seems to me that what he says in interviews is being blown a bit out of proportion - he has trouble handling himself in front of the media (and on the sideline), but really the QB is only one of many possible leaders on a team. Why is it ok for Duece, or Fontenot, or Horn (ha ha) to be the strong silent type? Those are just some thoughts. Please don\'t take it as though I\'m defending Brooks as a leader. However, I do think this focus on Brooks\' oddities of demeanor is nothing more than a red-herring for actual problems... and I\'m sure that most won\'t disagree that the real problem must be more than his mere inability to impress the fans by grimacing appropriately, rather than flashing the pearlies, on the sidelines. [Edited on 1/12/2003 by JKool] |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
FINALLY, someone willing to see the WHOLE picture. There is intelligent life on this planet afterall, there just ain\'t much of it on this board.
Saints lose and this entire board (with very few exceptions) blames Brooks Saints win and this entire board (with very few exceptions) seldom gives credit where it\'s due People on this board speak of continuity from one side of their mouth and scream \"cut \'em all\" from the other. The logic, if there is any, is weak Monday morning arm chair QB\'ing at it\'s finest. I actaully read a post in another thread where several of our \"esteemed\" members are trying to prove pentalties don\'t kill drives! :o You\'re right on the money with your \"red-herring\" theory JKool, but don\'t expect it to fly on this board. This board is for the sarcastic anti-Brooks folks who really wanted Jake Delhomme as their QB. [Edited on 1/12/2003 by saintfan] |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
Second, what do you want your leader to say, \"Yeah, I sucked it up out there.
Yes..... In the post game interview before the media , Matt Hasselbeck made it a clear point that there were some plays he wishes he had done better on and that those around him had played well . A man playing frisbee on a beach 2 weeks ago , had the courage to stand up and say the buck starts and stops with this position and I will get better . Haslett when asked about Brooks first half performance , said Brooks was a little shy about throwing with the knee and we had to tell him just to go out and throw it in the second half . Brooks is a second half player that needs a lot of reminding ..... |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
Saintfan said: You\'re right on the money with your \"red-herring\" theory JKool, but don\'t expect it to fly on this board. This board is for the sarcastic anti-Brooks folks who really wanted Jake Delhomme as their QB.
You need to go back and reread JKool\'s entire post. If you had comprehended what he said you wouldn\'t have been so quick to wave your \"somebody agrees with me\" flag. BTW...in case you haven\'t seen the standings lately, the Panthers are in first place...and Delhomme is their starter. Does he have the raw talent Brooks has? No. Is he a leader? Yes. Case closed. Perhaps your blind faith of Brooks will actually reach fruition but, for the most part, this offense has gotten worse the longer he sets up behind center. You can argue forever but facts is facts... All the injuries in the world (on offense or defense) cannot explain why Aaron Brooks continues to throw 8 yard passes at the receiver\'s feet when he\'s not under pressure. Perhaps you can... |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
Ok, let me clarify slightly.
Missed passes: of course, the QB is to blame for that. Leadership: how exactly do you evaluate that? It is clear to me, as I noted before, that Brooks is AT BEST half a leader, since clearly he isn\'t the guy everyone rallies around on the sideline, who gives the emotional speech, or even utters the battle cry. However, it is not clear to me that he doesn\'t lead by example. He plays hurt (unlike Vick), he plays to the last wistle, he runs with the ball, and he never gives up, even when we (the fans) have. Does he lead by example? These things tell me that he might. This indicates that he might be HALF A LEADER; until someone offers something otherwise, I think that Brooks \"non-leadership\" is an open question - that is, it has NOT been shown that he is NO LEADER AT ALL. Red-Herrings: what I meant was that it is not clear to me that Brooks leadership, or lack thereof, has much to do with anything. Missed passes, those have something to do with something. Saintz08: good point. What about my theory that a QB should have a short memory? This isn\'t a challenge, but a real question to which I\'m interested in the answer. Do you think that Hasselbeckwill last long or be a good leader if he reapeats those comments week after week? At some point, he will have to put the focus on other guys needing to get the job done or they\'ll just scapegoat him, and no one will play better as a result of his speeches. If the coaches can get Brooks fired up (as they seem to have in the second half), then they need to get on him sooner and quit praying that he\'ll develop that skill on his own. At least that\'s what I think I was saying... but don\'t hold that against me. P.S. When the defense stops the run, then, and maybe then, I\'ll consider Brooks beating people with his eyes and smiling like a dumb-a-- to be a first rate problem for our boys in the black and gold. |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
So what you\'re saying about Brooks is? If he\'s not fast and he\'s not slow, he\'s half -fast? :P
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Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
JKool
Leadership: how exactly do you evaluate that? It is clear to me, as I noted before, that Brooks is AT BEST half a leader, since clearly he isn\'t the guy everyone rallies around on the sideline, who gives the emotional speech, or even utters the battle cry. Here are 2 undisputable Saints notes : 1. At the end of last year the New Orleans Saints invested team money to send Brooks to a Leadership class . 2. One of the outstanding points to discredit Turley was his tendency to call Brooks out on his play and challenge him . How much leadership ability do you think Brooks has if the Saints have to send him to school for it and trade player who call him on it ????? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you think that Hasselbeckwill last long or be a good leader if he reapeats those comments week after week? How good of a leader or how long will he last if he chooses to blame others ?? Here is a cut from Sporting News report : QB Aaron Brooks has improved in several areas this season, including completion percentage and decision making. But he needs to raise his level of play down the stretch and become a more dynamic force on and off the field. His easy-going personality can be a liability for an offense that often lacks direction and focus. Brooks also must overcome his troubling tendency to make mistakes, especially early in games, which have put the Saints in early holes in recent weeks. [Edited on 2/12/2003 by saintz08] |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
Half fast, yes. :D
I was not aware that Brooks was blaming others for the losses. I thought he was simply not taking responsibility - in the case of the Redskins, he credited them (as laughable as that is), but, AS FAR AS I KNOW, he was not blaming other Saints for the loss. At any rate, I don\'t think Hasselbeck would last long blaming others either - but the point remains that simply taking the blame isn\'t obviously the best strategy. Given my current \"short memory\" theory of Quaterbacking, I see no reason that Brooks should accept the blame for our boys\' troubles. It is the coaching staff\'s job to smarten him up in that area before, during, and after games. Point taken that Brooks, if he is to be Half fast :D he needs to produce more dynamically on the field. I concede that point. While I still maintain that the \"Brooks leadership question is a red-herring\", I am now willing to grant that he has not displayed any leadership of the vocal-focused kind, and that he has not done enough to display his lead-by-example leadership (in terms of creating big plays and \"dyanmics\" of any kind). Though I do think that is a helpful distinction in our discussion of Brooks\' leadership qualities (or lack thereof). Cheers. |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
After a few positve performances from Brooks this season and the Saints were 5-5 on the season. A pre-game comintator asked former Saints\' fullback Hokie Gajan (46) \"Do you still think Aaron Brooks is NOT the QB to take the Saints to he next level?\". Hokie replied \"Yes, I still don`t believe Brooks can take this team to the next level\".
I sure wish Hokie would have went further in explaining why he felt that way, because I feel the same way. If someone asked me to explain why I felt that way about Brooks I could go on a rampage about leadership, poor decisions, not picking up the blitz..bla bla bla.....but HONESTLY, what it really boils down to for me is... I just think he`s DUMB. The lowest common denominator of why Brooks is consistently inconsistent is simply ... he`s just not very bright.period. I praise Brooks when he does well...I pull for him every snap....I stand and scream for him in the Dome every home game, but in the back of my mind I know any moment he can blow-it with flying colors.... because he lacks the mental ability to play consistent SMART football that the QB position requires in this league to win championships.... Thats my opinion. sorry. |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
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I comprehended Jkool\'s posts just fine sir. I\'ll gladly debate any topic with you at the very moment you give me some indication that you\'re watching the whole game and the whole team ok? Fair is fair. Guess I won\'t have to worry about responding to your posts for a while then eh? ;) |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
That\'s right, I forgot. Billy and Saintfan are the ONLY two guys on this ENTIRE board watching the WHOLE game. Good thing we\'ve got those two to show us the light.
Let me ask you two a question - will you admit that you\'re wrong and give up on this argument if Haslett is fired and Brooks is no longer the starter within the next 18 months? That basically means by the end of next season. Will that be enough, or will you keep talking about how great Brooks is even after he\'s lost the starting spot? |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
Who Dat
Does that include the scenario , where Haslett opts out of his contract and gets to become the Head Coach in Buffalo ??? |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
We may be the only two guys left on this site that are willing to place blame honestly Whodat. It is not me wearing the blinders my man, it\'s you and the rest of you who singularly place the blame for every loss on the shoulders of Aaron Brooks.
By having a difference of opinion with you here JOESAM will likely intervene and put and end to the debate but I\'ll post anyway. You are as guilty as anyone of trying to use statistics to prove your point of view when it\'s common knowledge that statistics can be use to prove just about anything. The Saints are loosing games for a variety of reasons and none solely the fault of Aaron Brooks. As I\'ve said numerous times before, I have NEVER indicated that Brooks would end up in the Hall of Fame, but by supporting him the rest of you ASSUME I take that angle and you make that assumption regarding ANYONE who doesn\'t think Brooks is the SOLE reason for the Saints problems. Listen to 08 and there\'s a conspiracy theroy. Listen to Gator and the problems with our defense are the sole responsibility of the offense. Others think Brooks is just not smart. You and others here pass your opinions off as fact, and when challenged ultimately the Moderator steps in...see the trend? YOU PEOPLE, the \"TANG CLAN\" or whatever it\'s called are the ones with a singular view, and you\'ve managed to make it the general consensus of this board with only a few exceptions. I\'ll submit to you here what I submitted on another thread before JOESAM got nervous. How can it be that 5 or 6 guys on this little web site know more about the NFL and judging talent and what REALLY goes on throughout the course of a game than the Saints management? You guys quite obviously have a very different opinion of the Saints team than that of Haz or anyone currently on the Saints payroll. Ask yourself, on which side of the debate is the experience? See my point? I\'m sure you don\'t. [Edited on 2/12/2003 by saintfan] |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
How can it be that 5 or 6 guys on this little web site know more about the NFL and judging talent and what REALLY goes on throughout the course of a game than the Saints management?
Are these the same guys that bring in 20+ new players per year , to replace the ones that did not work out from the previous year ??? |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
Yup. They are the same guys 08. To think that you (what do you do for a living?) know more about what\'s really going on during the games (I\'m guessing you don\'t have a space reserved in the press box) or have a better formula for evaluating talent (you do know you don\'t right?) than people who actually make their living in the NFL either playing or coaching is nothing short of silly. By your statement (not an answer by the way) to my question I\'ll guess you\'re of the opinion they should have KEPT those players that weren\'t working? But WAIT, some of those players are on teams having some success right? Ahhhh, I forgot that little nugget. Hmmmm, are you the very person who\'s tried to make us beleive that ONE player doesn\'t make that much difference? Thought so. Tell that to the Jets, or the Flacons. Spin it baby, cause that\'s all you got!
But, then, I\'m wasting my time here. It is pointless to get you people to concede when you\'re just not gonna. I\'ve seen the most of you crawfish more than an actual crawfish. Ya\'ll are funny really, and as long as I view you that way I\'ll stay sane. I may ultimately get booted because I don\'t agree, but I\'ll leave with my sanity firmly intact knowing I didn\'t give in. The ignorance is spreading here. That much I can be sure about. This must be where armchair QB\'s go to die. |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
Quote:
BTW, I\'m not concerned about debating you because, clearly, you possess no skills in that regard. Your automatic response to any criticism of Brooks is well-documented but, sadly, not based in fact. You make wild claims of what I (and others) have said and then go on to respond to those claims as if they were actually put forward. Obviously, you\'re not going to let the facts get in the way of your defense of a talented yet still lacking quarterback. I\'ve never said, nor implied, that AB is the root of all the Saints\' problems and your claim that I have is either oversight or purposely disingenous. What I have said is benching him is a step toward pointing this team in the right direction. You have admitted in the past that AB has certain flaws but believe the other inadaquacies that exist on the Saints are more pressing, or at least more responsible for their abysmal play. Fair enough...we both agree Brooks has some certain flaws. You and I can disagree to our heart\'s content about Aaron Brooks but one thing\'s for sure: At a million five a year, we ain\'t gettin\' our money\'s worth, OK?! |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
There are no absolutes? :o Looks like the wizzard gave him a brain afterall!
What, by the way, is my \"automatic\" response, where is it \"documented\", and what, precisely, isn\'t based on fact? I readily admit I don\'t claim to have all the answers which quite frankly is what separates me from the likes of you! ;) Lets debate factual things, blake, rather than stuff you just , cause there are enough people on here doing that already. If you never said \"nor implied, that AB is the root of all the Saints\' problems\" then what, may I ask, have you said to the contrary? Just a curious question... I do beleive Brooks has flaws. I think Bradshaw had some too. Aikman and Montana and Marino etc all had flaws. I have pointed out poor blocking at times (fact) and dropped passes at key moments (fact) as pressing issues. I have also indicated that Brooks\' errors are on \"on him\"...\"all on him\"...and you can look that up, or I can do it for you. Either way you\'re dead wrong in your assessment of me and again I\'d ask that we discuss FACTS rather than your own personal fiction if we\'re to carry this any further. Next time perhaps you should test the water before you dive right in. How\'d that be? [Edited on 2/12/2003 by JOESAM2002] |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
Let\'s just say I would do alot better then the zombie that spent the Big bucks on Jerimiah Trotter with the Deadskins now and then schemed him wrong ....
The press box is usually a mess , I prefer the suites . Blake 6900 Gotta disagree with you here : You and I can disagree to our heart\'s content about Aaron Brooks but one thing\'s for sure: At a million five a year, we ain\'t gettin\' our money\'s worth, OK?! At a million five for Brooks , sold . He could back up Eli ....... ;) |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
I\'m not sure how this got so heated, but I do think a few things are clearer.
1. Most people are not disagreeing that there are several problems for our beloved team this year. Mostly as follows, and in no particular order: 1. Defense can\'t stop the run, 2. Brooks is not a leader, 3. Receivers drop balls, 4. too many turnovers, 5. Coaching, 6. a less that stellar off-season. 2. People are disagreeing about which of these is most important with respect to our team\'s predicament, NOT that these are not all contributing factors. My argument was this: people who keep saying that Brooks is not a leader are barking up the wrong tree (I still believe that point) AND we need a clearer concept of leadership to move the debate forward. I argued that leadership has two parts: 1. Vocal and 2. Example. I thought it was clear that Brooks wasn\'t a Vocal leader, but no one had made an argument to the claim that he didn\'t lead by example. I became convinced that there wasn\'t much evidence that he lead by example in terms of making dynamic plays that could fire up the team (that is the point I conceded). However, I\'m open to counter-arguments here. Furthermore, it is unclear to me that Brooks leadership matters AT ALL, as long as he wins games with his physical talents. I would be interested in hearing some argument about coaching, which I think requires some distinctions too: 1. game preparation, 2. team moral, 3. personel decisions (in game), and 4. vision. So, before someone goes on a rant about how bad the coaching is, perhaps he/she should stop and think about WHAT elements of the coaching suck, since it is NOT all bad. I remain of the opinion that it is our run defense that is of primary concern (especially our lack of a big play, or even simply consistent play, linebacker). Next after that I think is receiving - we have been fairly awful in the handful of games I\'ve been able to see. However, that is just my opinion. |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
What\'s amazing to me is that after the Philly game, for example, I said that the defense played terribly, and this team on a whole made WAY too many mental mistakes. I also blasted Brooks - and while his play overall might have come out pretty good on the day, it was destroyed by a few collosal blunders that I think cost us the game. So, of course, Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dumber come running in here talking about an agenda against Brooks, short-sightedness, and whatnot.
While no one on the field played considerably well other than Deuce (as usual), the team DID play well enough to win the game. In fact, had it not been for two Brooks fumbles that led to 14 Eagles points and took 7 off of the Saints\' board (a 21 total point swing), the Saints would probably have walked out of Philly with a win. I don\'t think that is an unfair analysis of the game. However, if your name is Saintfan or BillyC, then I\'m a freakin\' loon. So I take it further and try to show how Brooks\' turnovers hurt more than the many penalties and dropped passes by asking, how many points did the Eagles score off of Saints penalties? Any? While they certainly hurt the team, they couldn\'t have hurt us all that much. Most of our penalties were on offense that game but we still managed to rack up nearly 500 yards in offense. So what was it? Again I point to turnovers and now apparently I don\'t understand football b/c I believe that penalties and dropped passes are easier to overcome than turnovers, and that only turnovers unquestionably end a drive. So fine. Label me a Brooks Hater. Say that I have a turnover agenda. That\'s fine with me. If saying what I said above translates to Brooks Basher and Turnover Agenda, then you\'re damn right I am those things. I\'d rather be labeled incorrectly then just be incorrect period. |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
WhoDat,
I have a question for you. Why do you avoid questions about some of the statements you make? Let me give you an example !! You stated that \"Deuce is the only player living up to expectations.\" Is Charles Grant not living up to expectations? How \'bout Jay Bellamy? How \'bout Wille Whitehead? Can you admit that at least one player other than Deuce is living up to expectations and that you are wrong, or are you going to double talk or ignore the question all together? There is no doubt that Deuce is the MVP but to say no other player is living up to expectations is way out there WhoDat and then you went on to say you were disappointed in every player but Deuce. I\'m sure you\'ll have the usual suspects run to your defense, and I\'m starting to wonder exactly what kind of relationship you have with some of those folks. Just remeber when you get drunk on the WhoTang I really should have deleted the whole thing but....... [Edited on 4/12/2003 by JOESAM2002] |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
OK, you can probably say Grant is as well, but Bellamy is not to me. He makes a great hit and then gets gashed on the next play. He\'s Brooksesque on his play. But I\'ll give you Grant.
But if you disagree, by all means, please Billy, list the other players on this team playing up to expectations. |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
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[Edited on 4/12/2003 by BlackandBlue] |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
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OFFENSE------------------- Gandy Jacox Fontenot Riley Boo (better than expected) Conwell (especially late) Rasby Brooks T. Smith McAllister (MVP type year) Horn Holland DEFENSE------------ Grant Howard Sullivan K. Smith Whitehead (better) Ruff D. Smith Bellamy (better) Thomas Rogers (better) M. Williams NOT playing as expected: Sedrick Hodge James Allen Dale Carter Tebucky Jones (but we had very high expectations) Ashley Ambrose Donte Stallworth Michael Lewis Jerome Pathon (almost met) Bentley (but we had very high expectations) |
Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,
We all expected Jay Bellamy to be riding pine.....so I\'m surprised he isn\'t as horrible as he was last year. Perhaps it\'s just that the SS position doesn\'t expose his lack of speed and puts him in more tackling opportunities....but I\'m happy with him.
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