Why the Colts QB?
 

Let's see, If your former backup QB is currently headed for the Super Bowl with another team and is having more play off success than your current QB, then bring up the name of the Colts QB who just lost in the AFC championship game. It doesn't make sense to me , Bill. But why stop with Manning , how about that other Conference Championship loser, McNabb? After all he was inept against the Panthers. The receivers got the blame but He threw 3 picks. Talk about choking, how about 3 straight NFC Championship games.

Why the Colts QB?
 

jm --

It doesn\'t make sense to me to compare Delhomme to Brooks. What does Carolina going to the Super Bowl have to do with Delhomme being better than Brooks. I know everyone is smarter than to think because Delhomme is going to the super bowl that he\'s Joe Montana. We know the truth.

Why the Colts QB?
 

takes more than a QB to get to the super bowl...

Why the Colts QB?
 

Uhh, not according to the Delhommite Klan.

All you need is Jake
All you need is Jake
All you need is Jake, Jake
Jake is all you need.

The anti-BEATles!

Why the Colts QB?
 

I have been typing that here for TWO years! :casstet:

I\'d also like to submit this year\'s version of the Carolina Panthers as proof of the accuracy of that statement.

[Edited on 21/1/2004 by saintfan]

Why the Colts QB?
 

You know what, you guys are absolutely right. Stephen Davis, Mussin Muhammod, Steve Smith, etc. are more responsible for Carolina\'s success than Delhomme. In fact, when you have a great supporting cast like that, all you have to do is insert a careful, efficient, smart QB who knows how to lead and you can find a way to get over the hump.

hhhmmm.... sounds familiar. Where have I heard that before? Oh, now I remember, that was EXACTLY the reason why I said the Saints should have been playing Delhomme for the last two and a half seasons. Brooks hurts the team and players don\'t rally behind him. Delhomme simply distributes the ball to his playmakers and rallies the troops. Thank you, you\'ve just proven the point I\'ve been making for a very long time.

Why the Colts QB?
 

And throws off his back foot constantly...lobbing the ball carelessly in the air. Brooks throws a STRIKE off his back foot and all you guys do it beetch about throwing off his back foot. Jake also tossed 16 Int\'s this year did he not? How many freakin\' times did Jake\'s Defense bail him out? One of those come-from-behind wins he gets credit for was a blocked kick...and HE didn\'t block it. :casstet:

I better say here than I\'m not crakin\' on \'ol Jake. I like the guy (seems I always have to remind people of that) but he\'s NOT all that and a bag of chips like some folks would have us think...Parcells didn\'t make him much of an offer in Dallas for a REASON...he didn\'t make him much of an offer when he was with the J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS either! Wonder why?

It\'s all in how you spin it whodat, and you definately spin it brother.

[Edited on 21/1/2004 by saintfan]

Why the Colts QB?
 

WhoDat -- Do you think the Panthers\' offense or defense is more responsible for them going to the SB? If you say offense, which individual player has had the biggest impact of the Panthers offense? I say Stephen Davis and the offensive line is the heart and soul of that offense. If you say their defense is more responsilble, then how many plays has Jake made on defense?

Wining games hides a lot of problems and Jake has a whole bunch of \'em. Folks want to talk about leadership and make Jake out to be a great one which is fine, but let Jake have to carry that team(and he will at some point) and you\'ll see the media turn on him like there\'s no tomorrow.

Why the Colts QB?
 

The player on the field that keeps the spark alive .

Panthers are currently playing Smash mouth football , the in your face kind of football that requires a lions heart and the size to pull it off .

Why the Colts QB?
 

I see you didn\'t answer the questions 08. If you want to believe that Jake\'s heart put them in the super bowl, then that\'s fine. This subject is getting old. We all know the truth.

Why the Colts QB?
 

There are two problems with your logic guys.

First, let\'s compare Jake\'s numbers this year to Brooks\' numbers in 01, his first year as a starter. You\'ll see that Jake threw fewer INTs, had more yards per attempt, a better completion percentage, and a higher QB rating... and more wins. I\'ve posted these numbers before, if you want me to go dig them up again to provide proof for these statements, just ask and I will.

Second, Brooks is an athlete. He is supposed to have all this potential that will one day materialize. No one says that about Jake. So basically, Jake is being asked to not screw up. In fact, he is being a leader and playing better than most expected. He is OVERachieving in his FIRST season. Brooks, on the other hand, is being asked and paid to be a top five QB. He supposedly is much more gifted than Delhomme, yet his numbers aren\'t really that much better after three and a half years as a starter. Plus, he\'s not a top five QB. He is not performing up to expectations. He is not progressing as quickly as expected. He is not a good leader. He is UNDERachieving. So really, we\'re paying A LOT more for a guy who isn\'t doing much more and isn\'t living up to expectations. Give me a cheap overachieving leader over that any day.

Why the Colts QB?
 

You want to talk about flawed logic? Try this out!!

Should we compare Jake\'s and Aaron\'s first year numbers to John Elway and Terry Bradshaw and say that Jake and Aaron are better than 2 hall of fame QB\'s? That would be kind of dumb wouldn\'t it? Now, what does that say about your comparison?

As who expected? WHO WHO WHO?? He\'s progressed nicely if you ask me. I can back that up. But, not in wins and losses, because that\'s not the way you evaluate progression for a QB. Just ask Archie Manning about that!! Oh, I forgot, you can\'t hold a Manning to the same standards!!

Ok. Should we sign the cheapest QB on the market and somehow if he posts better numbers than someone who makes more money then you should be happy.

Why the Colts QB?
 

Wrong. You\'re talking about a differnce of two years compared to a difference of 20 or 30. Think the game has changed as much in the last two years as it has in the last 30 Billy? If your answer is yes, then by all mean, compare them.

Really? So he\'s gone up in the overall QB rankings? Oops. Nope, not since he was given the $36 million contract he hasn\'t.

I\'ll tell you what Billy. Go ask Belicheck or John Fox iif he would rather have lots of better than average to good players or a few super stars and tell me what their answer is. Then I\'ll address that last ridiculous statement.

Why the Colts QB?
 

Whodat, do the Saints have, in your opinion, \"lots of better than average players\"?

Why the Colts QB?
 

WhoDat, does calling my statement ridiculous make this board a better place? Personally it doesn\'t bother me, but you\'ve been very hard on certain member(s) about making this board a bad place and if you are going to preach that stuff on here, the least you can do is back it up by setting the example yourself. If you are going to degrade someone\'s post, then IMO you should stop with the holier than thou attitude you\'ve had on here. Hey, man, it\'s the truth

[Edited on 22/1/2004 by BillyC]

Why the Colts QB?
 

I addressed the statement as ridiculous Billy, not the person.

\"Should we sign the cheapest QB on the market and somehow if he posts better numbers than someone who makes more money then you should be happy.\"

I know you\'re smart enough to know that this isn\'t what I was saying. That statement is CLEARLY polarized and either sarcastic, antagonistic, or both. C\'mon Billy, your feelings aren\'t hurt and you\'re smarter than that. You were trying to rile me up or make me walk into a trap and I didn\'t. If your feelings are hurt, then I apologize. However, if you think I am dumb enough to make that statement then I\'m shocked and offended at your blantant disregard for my intelligence. ;) (two can play that game BC).

On offense, unquestionably. On defense, no. Which is why I prefer an average QB and four defensive players over one hot shot QB.

Why the Colts QB?
 

I\'m curious to know...

(a) which players you consider to be better than average

and

(b) if you think Brooks\' contract has prevented the Saints from signing quality defensive players

Sometimes we post vague statements (don\'t read that sarcastically). We\'re all guilty of doing that (yes, even you :P ) so I\'m curious to know if you really think Brooks\' contract (the numbers) has been otherwise detrimental to the Saints signing quality players.

Why the Colts QB?
 

LMAO!! Well, my feelings are hurt, WhoDat. I\'m a sensetive guy. However, I did not mean to insult your intelligence. You\'re just hard to prove wrong and I have to use any means necessary!!

Now I must take a break. All this Delhomme talk is going to get me in trouble!!

Why the Colts QB?
 

Saintfan, on the roster right now today I would have to say that Deuce, Horn, and Bentley are Pro Bowl caliber (either in their ability now or potential or both). AB is close, but I would classify him as good. Conwell is also a good TE, despite his off year. Boo Williams looks to be capable of being a very good player. Gandy is above average. Stallworth has potential to be great, although I won\'t suggest for a minute that it has materialized yet. Fontenot is above average to me - his physical ability is ailing, but he is very smart and experienced and that makes up for a lot.


Has Brooks\' contract prevented us from signing quality defensive players? Yes and no. The Saints have had the money and opportunity to sign many good players and passed. That\'s a Loomis and Haslett issue. Of course, Brooks is the highest payed player on our team, I believe, and yes, that definitely effects who you can or can\'t sign. Considering that he isn\'t playing to the level that his salary demands and the fact that I feel that he is one of the more easily replacable players on the offensive side of the ball, yes, he can be looked at a hinderance. That money signs us two serious defensive studs. That brings us closer to a Super Bowl to me than AB does.

Why the Colts QB?
 

Either you think Brooks\' contract caused the Saints to not be able to sign these defensive studs or you don\'t. I\'m not trying to be argumentative necessarilly ( :P ) but either you do or you don\'t. If you\'re saying that theoretically it could have then that\'s fine, but it is my opinion that Brooks\' contract hasn\'t prevented the Saints from signing the players they wanted to sign. That they didn\'t sign some other players that some of us wanted them to sign could be the fault of Loomis or Haz for not pickin\' the right guys, but I don\'t think Brooks\' contract had anything to do with it. The Saints cap looks pretty good even with Brooks\' money...that\'s what I\'m sayin\'.

Why the Colts QB?
 

I am saying two things here.

1. Haslett and Loomis have had the money and opportunity to sign good defensive players and they haven\'t. That\'s their bad and has nothing to do with Brooks.

2. Even with that being said, value is important in football. I don\'t think anyone on this board is dumb enough to say that you should pay a guy more than he is worth. Aaron Brooks is not worth $36 million. Period. The other players we could get for that money, whether that\'s one Woodson or four Chris Claibornes, or even a couple of OTs, are more valuable to me than Brooks is.

Why the Colts QB?
 

You\'re right WhoDat. Players do need to earn their money. But, should they have to play up to their salary right away or is there a window there for them to justify their salary? If players are to earn their money right away then I can go around the league and show you players that aren\'t achieving that!!

[Edited on 23/1/2004 by BillyC]

Why the Colts QB?
 

Whodat\'s angle, if I may, is that he didn\'t want 2 things...

(a) to sign Brooks at all

and

(b) that he Definately didn\'t want to sign Brooks for that amount of Money.

I\'m not trying to be antagonistic I swear, but to me I think that\'s where he\'s coming from. If that\'s true then he\'s going to continue to agrue for what he thinks...and I don\'t blame him for that...even if he\'s incorrect. See, if Brooks had an off year then according to Whodat he\'s \"all of a sudden\" not worth what we\'re payin him, when, next year he may very well light it up. Heaven knows he\'s lit it up before. The Money issue is yet another attempt to validate an opinion. And I\'m not tryin\' to jump on ya hear Whodat, I just think that with those of you that don\'t want Brooks on this team it\'s always gonna be SOMEthing.

Why the Colts QB?
 

Peace offering??? You\'re an obnoxious JERK and where to you get off telling someone what to post? JERK!!

Yeah, I\'ll get banned but so what!! I call it like I see it and I don\'t care to see it no MORE. Gator is the biggest trouble maker this board has ever seen and this board would be SO MUCH better without him........See ya folks.

Why the Colts QB?
 

Uncalled for Billy. Besides, we all know that Saintfan is the worst! ;)

Saintfan, you have a point, BUT... in my opinion, this was Brooks\' best year. I\'ll substitute a few TDs and yards for higher completion percentage and efficiency rating. Brooks\' 19 turnovers were less than his 22 INTs in \'02. \'03 was his best year ever and he still wasn\'t top five. So it\'s not a matter of me being myopic and saying that b/c the guy had an \"off-year\" that he is now overpaid all of a sudden. He\'s been overpaid since he got the contract and I think this was his best year yet.

That being said, I also don\'t limit my concerns about Brooks to money. I continue to think that he is wrong for our system, not a leader, not overly intelligent (in fact I might say underly intelligent), and I have a hard time believing that he will ever be successful or accepted in NO. It\'s better for the Saints and better for Brooks to part... the same is true of Haslett from where I\'m sitting.

Why the Colts QB?
 

You never know how Brooks would respond if the fans in New Orleans ever embraced him. They never really have.

If Brooks had his best year in 03 then he surely must be improving right? Aren\'t so many people screaming about his lack of improvement? I have always been less about defending Brooks (I know, your jaw just dropped) and more about attempting to point out that there are other things that have to happen for a team to be successful. Maybe I come across differently, but that has always been my intention. Brooks play is as good as it needs to be to take this team all the way, and I for one (or is it three) think he\'s only going to get better.

If you think Brooks is wrong for the Saints system then so be it. I think the \"system\" scored enough points to win last year and certainly the year before. The system with the problem is the defense, so why people want to continue to focus on Brooks, to me, is amazingly short-sighted and narrow.

Gator, I probalby should just say nothing and let it go but there\'s nothing evil about my saying that Brooks, as a starter, was surely underpaid by any NFL standard before he signed his contract. To say that nobody thinks he earned his coins this year is, well, your opinion. I don\'t share it. I think there are probably more that just 3 of us that are guilty of nothing more than having an opinion that\'s different from yours. I may be in the majority and I may not be, but I am doing my best not to play hometown favorites and not to make wild assumptions or dream up silly conspiracy theories that I shove down people\'s throats. I don\'t think it\'s time to give up on Haz and I certainly don\'t think it\'s time to give up on Brooks. I\'m also trying to say all this in the nicest way possible...

Why the Colts QB?
 

Now I feel like lighting a candle and singing. Who\'s with me?

Why the Colts QB?
 

I\'ve attacked people (whodat and 08 come to mind instantly) vigorously. Billy has done the same. I\'m trying to keep it civil. I know whodat doesn\'t like me. Ok. I also know that you don\'t like Billy and he doesn\'t care much for you. Ok. It is my opinion that none of us have done any worse to any of the group that any of the others have done. If Whodat doesn\'t want me here he can get over it. Same for anybody else cept for JOESAM and HALO. That goes for Billy, and YOU, and 08, and anybody else. We\'re all smartazzez when it gets right down to it. To tell the truth I like makin\' Whodat angry, and I\'ll never hear the word CLEARLY (thanks Troy Aikman) the same again!
LMAO

:P

Why the Colts QB?
 

Glad to know I left a lasting impression. And hey Saintfan, I\'ll say this. I do LOVE to hate you!! ;)

Naw, you\'re growing on me. Just so long as the word \"agenda\" stays out of your posts, I\'m happy. Looks like you and Billy are laying off the Who-Tang recently. Good, it\'s time for you two to sober up, wipe those beer goggles off your faces, and admit that I\'m right. LMAO. :P

Why the Colts QB?
 

Thanks Whodat. I hate you too...

:P

Why the Colts QB?
 

CLEARLY!!!

we need a little smiley face guy who pukes.

Why the Colts QB?
 

Not sure he was telling anyone how to post, but he has just as much right to post how he feels about a certain subject as you do to respond thousands of times to the same subject, or am I wrong?

Why the Colts QB?
 

BnB, you\'re so smart. ;)

Why the Colts QB?
 

How did the subject get so far removed from why the Colts QB was drawn into the Brooks/ Delhomme debate?

Why the Colts QB?
 

Easily, jm. It\'s the natural cycle of this board. A topic will be beaten so seriously that the \"dead horse\" is turned to glue and then the insults start flying. It will continue to escalate until a moderator gets po\'d and quits over it and some member gets banned. Then everyone will calm down and apologize and swear that it will NEVER happen again [never being a period of time not to exceed 60 days]. And it wont...for a while. :casstet:

I\'ve been a somewhat faithful member of this board for over a year now and it has happened no less that 3 times in that span. I\'m not complaining, however. From time to time, threads like these contain some of the most interesting things being said here as well as some of the most entertaining!

Why the Colts QB?
 

It took more that a QB to win a playoff game in 2000 too... and yet...

Why the Colts QB?
 

Hey Scotty, there\'s gotta be one of these every few years. It gets rid of the bad blood. You know it\'s been ten years since the last war? That\'s OK. You\'ll be off in Italy and we\'ll take the hell for it.

(That\'s the Godfather - Clemenza to Michael - for all of you poor souls who don\'t know that movie well enough to identify that quote).

Why the Colts QB?
 

This thread has been LOCKED because of violations to the following forum rules:

- No Cursing in the Forum: The forum is read by young and old alike.

- No Personal attacks on other members: Arguments about the Saints are welcome, but when name calling and attacks are a part of your post, it will be deleted.

Members be warned this is not allowed, and bannings may be in order.