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TheOak 06-22-2012 06:55 AM

Had enough? (Participation Requested)
 
There are plenty enough threads discussing details and assumptions on the Bounty/Pay for Performance topic. The overall climate I believe is that nearly everyone wants this to be over with. Maybe one way or another.

I will ask the hard question that most will have to think about, as Saints fans we are very familiar with struggle, maybe even more so that most teams due to our history with ups and down, poor records, being brow beat and called 'aints".... Hell, even "Who Dat" has been challenged.

Some factors to mull before you vote. We all know that Bounties go back at least 30 years as admitted by some retired players. We all know that other teams have done it, as admitted by multiple players on multiple teams. That being said do you honestly think we are 100% innocent or do you believe we have some culpability? Don't say "yes, but"... we all know the NFL has handled this poorly, we all know the NFLPA played its part in creating the power vacuum, all parties are guilty of going public with slanderous statements that they have yet to use face to face with each other....

How badly do you want this to go away? What are you willing to accept to make it go away?

Dam.. cant edit the Poll now. Difference between 3 and 4 is that 3 includes coaches. 4 is just players.

WhoDat!656 06-22-2012 07:22 AM

IMO, the worst offense the Saints are guilty of is aggravated stupidity for keeping records of whatever it is the league is saying the Saints did.

TheOak 06-22-2012 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 (Post 413794)
IMO, the worst offense the Saints are guilty of is aggravated stupidity for keeping records of whatever it is the league is saying the Saints did.


Well... can we agree that a kept record, is a kept record of "something".. No?

In my honest opinion, saying the Saints are 100% innocent... knowing this is a League systemic issue is a little too far for me to reach. Sh1t happened, the NFLPA gave Goodell his power and we are paying the price for 30 years of ignored culture. We do not deserve the punishment that we have received but nothing can be done about that. Goodell has legal power granted by the CBA with no checks in place.

The coaches are cooked, they already admitted that they were warned in 2009 and Greg Williams admitted the warning was ignored. What do we gain from a victory? A line backer near the end of his career who's productivity has fallen for two years, and a Defensive End for four games that has averaged 6 sacks for the last two seasons? If we could get coaching back then i would say it is worth it.. but we cant.

pherein 06-22-2012 07:48 AM

Sorry guys, Im as sick as anyone of hearing about this, but I have to pick for us to fight to the bitter end, even if we lose.

My reasoning is this.
1. Someone has to stand up to the NFL, and Goodell, and show them that you can't just make stuff up. Win or lose they need a solid punch in the nose for the good of the NFL. You have to fight the bully at some point or he never learns. Who better than the Saints to teach the NFL this historic lesson.
I would be proud of the Saints if they can make future commissioners and the NFL think twice before trying to pull of this kind of BS again.

2. I think the possibility of a ego driven, corporate moron, and mindless CEO like Goodell ever capitulating, admitting he's wrong, reducing fines, is Zero. Ive work with to many of them.

3. The more we fight, the more unity I see on the team. They are pissed, and the more unity I see with the fans. Goodell picked the wrong city to start a fight with. The NFL and Goodell are the weakest things we have had to face in our history.

4. I really don't care much how other teams fans see us in the end. But we are a great family fan base, sportsman, and worked very hard for our reputation. IT might mean nothing to Philly, but it means a lot to me. The more we fight the better we look. backing down is for wimps. At least we can always say we fought the best we could, and didn't wimp out, like other teams.

5. The tiny impossibility that the Saints would be responsible for getting Goodell fired ROCKS !!! It would make us a legion around the NFL,lol .
and set the tone for the future..Dont Mess with NO!

6. No matter how painful, its the right thing to do. Seeking the truth and fighting injustice is never bad. It isn't fun, but someone has to do it.

jcp026 06-22-2012 07:54 AM

We can fight to the bitter end but it won't do any good.

SloMotion 06-22-2012 08:03 AM

I voted #3 because the Saints do have some culpability here in pay-for-performance, but no more then any other NFL team ... I think suspending coaches/players 2-4 games would have been enough for Goodell to get his message across ... for crissake, send a warning shot over the bow to the league before you try sinking the whole fricken' ship, Rog.

The injustice to me is the length of the suspensions, not the actual suspensions ... I don't see why Goodell couldn't modify the punishments (with the exception of Greg Williams) and still come off looking as a 'no-nonsense' commissioner.

pumpkindriver 06-22-2012 08:32 AM

I agree with SloMo, and I also voted 3. A 4 game suspension with a hefty fine for Sean and 4 games for the other coaches, besides GW, would have been enough, aong with 4 games for Vilma and the other players. And this would've been laid to rest. No court challenges etc. but no, Roger had to be heavy handed and now hes reaping what he has sown.

TheOak 06-22-2012 10:01 AM

I have never been one to subscribe to cutting off my nose to spite my face. Fight it yes... but to what cost? And inevitably what gain? Our Saints are football players and do not need any distractions during the season added onto the normal stress and strain.

Halo 06-22-2012 11:20 AM

You forgot 1 other addition to the poll:

"Fight until we as fans lose our collective minds"

I mean, this is killing us as fans because we're just football fans for cris-sakes, not Nazi activists or conspiracy theorists.

I know so many here are tired of the issue but we have an obligation as fans to push back to an extent otherwise Goodell would simply ROLL over us.

pinch 06-22-2012 12:27 PM

As a team, move on
 
As a team, I think it is time to move on. Goodell will not be reversing his decision and he will not be reducing penalties. He has to preserve a zero-tolerance policy in preparation of the legal disputes to come regarding head trauma.

For the individuals who were penalized, their integrity was challenged and I encourage them to continue the fight. Plus, they may be able to prolong the process long enough to play for this season.

All in all, this isn't something we should dwell on as the season approaches. The punishments have been handed down, they're probably final, so let's start focusing on football and what we can do to win a Superbowl.


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