Go Back   New Orleans Saints - blackandgold.com > Main > Saints
Shop Horizontal

Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; This has to do with \"why\" coaching can\'t always get the job done. And yet for some reason it always seems too....... When you follow the coaching chain down the line you will see what I mean . The past ...

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-03-2004, 08:51 PM   #11
1000 Posts +
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,020
Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????

This has to do with \"why\" coaching can\'t always get the job done.
And yet for some reason it always seems too.......

When you follow the coaching chain down the line you will see what I mean .

The past 10 SuperBowls have been won by the philosophy of 4 head coaches ...

The past 20 Super Bowls have been won by the philosophy of just 6 head coaches ....

These head coaches who have established a Super Bowl winning philosophy which affected other coaches are :

Parcels
Walsh
Vermeil
Johnson
Gibbs
Landry

In the last 20 years , the winning Super Bowl coach was linked to the winning philosophy of just these 6 coaches .....

If it aint coaching , then why do assistants from the same systems keep winning them ????.........

And just for fun :

60% of the Super Bowls won in the last 10 years , the head coach was previously in a system directly related to the Bill Walsh system in San Francisco ......

[Edited on 4/7/2004 by saintz08]

\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton
On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan
Brooks is a moron!! - Halo
saintz08 is offline  
Old 07-03-2004, 10:56 PM   #12
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,616
Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????

Every fan is always looking for that one “elusiveâ⠂¬? thing that will get their team to the super bowl. That one “keyâ⠬? ingredient that’s missing.

Over the years, there has been much speculation about what that “keyâ⠬? ingredient is. But, I contend there is no “keyâ⠬? ingredient for success in the NFL.

Not coaching, not players, and not defense!! None of these things will get your team to the Promised Land. Not individually anyway. And none of them are any more important than the others!!!!

Let’s look back and examine some of the “mythsââ ‚¬? of football.

1. A team must be able to run the ball in order to win!
Well, why are so many of the top rushing teams left out of the playoffs every year? Deuce McAllister is about as good it gets but it just wasn’t enough. And how were the Patriots able to win 2 of the last 3 super bowls with a sub-par running game?!?!?

2. A team must have a franchise quarterback!
Then why hasn’t Peyton Manning taken his team to a super bowl? Why did it take Peyton 6-years to win his first playoff game? Why is Trent Dilfer wearing a super bowl ring and Peyton is still searching for one?

3. Defense wins championships!
Really? Then why did 5 of the top 10 defenses miss the playoffs last year? As good as they were, it just wasn’t enough.

4. Coaching makes the difference!
Oh yeah?? Then why couldn’t Bill Parcells win a playoff game? Why did Jon Gruden miss the playoffs altogether? How are some of these no-name coaches able to come out of nowhere and upstage some of these coaching legends?

I love NFL football but you just never know! We might think we know, but we just don’t!

But, some fans claim to know the “recipeââ ‚¬? for success in the NFL. They are convinced they know all the secret ingredients to build a winner.

It’s always a different rage in the NFL. The big rage now is coaching. Just hire yourself a “Bill Parcells� of the world and you will be well on your way to having your super bowl ring designed. Never mind the fact that Parcells last super bowl ring came 10 years ago with Lawrence Taylor.

Now, don’t get me wrong. Coaching is very important. Coaching lays the “foundation⠢‚¬? for every football team. But games have and always will be decided by the players on the field.

All the motivation and trickery in the world can only do so much. In the end, it’s up to the players to win. So, while coaching lays the “foundation⠢‚¬?, it’s the players that get you to the “penthouse.⠢‚¬?

If you’re going to start somewhere it should be with your coach. Then he will have to determine what’s the best way for his football team to win. It doesn’t have to be with a “franchiseâà ¢Â‚¬? QB. He doesn’t have to have a top 10 defense to win it all. No secret ingredient is needed.

So, while “coachingÃ¢à ‚¬? is all the rage. Just realize that a team doesn’t need one of the best coaches to get to the super bowl. They just need to have a good combination of everything and a little bit of luck!!


[Edited on 5/7/2004 by GumboBC]
GumboBC is offline  
Old 07-05-2004, 02:17 PM   #13
1000 Posts +
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,417
Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????

Billy,

I agree that there is no single \"recipe\" for success in the NFL. This is very much like my point that there is not simply one way to have a great defense - it depends on who you have where - a great MLB can make up for a weaker DT, a great CB can make up for a weaker FS, and so on.

It is the same for teams: there is no team that is perfect everywhere, so it is up to the great players to play great and those around them to back them up. It is the coach\'s job to make sure that he identifies the great players, the back ups, and the space holders - then a team can be great!

It is also possible, as you point out, that sometimes great players can carry the load - but that is really asking too much of the players. Also, as BnB notes, it is pretty well the coach\'s job to make sure the players do what they need to do - they really won\'t do it on their own - so, perhaps, under certain conditions the players can keep doing what they do, but really we shoudn\'t expect that from a young team or one with lots of turnover (that is when the Coach is critical).

Thus, I agree that great coaching is not the \"key\" to success - as 08 notes, most good coaches just copy the greats and have good success. Though I\'d say you\'d have to add Shanahan to his list (he did as much in San Fran as he did in Denver!). However, as far as importance goes, a good coach is right up there with a great DE or a great QB.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks :cool:
JKool is offline  
Old 07-05-2004, 04:34 PM   #14
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,616
Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????

Jkool –

Good points. There have been several good points brought up. Such as:

lummOx brings up a very interesting point in that the coach is the single most important person on the team because: “he is the only person that has global impact on the game. He has individual impact on every single player, impact on the play call, scheme, and personnel. That\'s why if the team fails, the coach changes.�

While lummOx is correct that the coach is held responsible for every single facet of his team, that doesn’t make it the right thing to do. It depends on the circumstances.

I think some fans get caught up in the instant success that some other teams have. Fans look at the instant success other teams have and they develop a “fire ‘em all� attitude if their team doesn’t achieve success in a certain time frame.

As I’ve already proved, great coaching doesn’t always translate into wins. As a matter of fact, great coaching is sometimes rewarded with the coach getting fired. Just ask Jim Fassel, Dan Reeves, Bill Belichick, ect, ect..

And just like I believe the coach takes too much blame, I believe he also gets too much credit.

The favorite person that fans always love to blame is the QB and the coach. Bench the QB and fire the coach. If I only had a dime for every time I’ve heard that…
GumboBC is offline  
Old 07-06-2004, 01:51 AM   #15
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,616
Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????

Gator --

That was one hell of a post, buddy. :thumbup:

My point really had nothing to do with Haslett. Ya\'ll have changed my mind on Haslett. I think Haslett has made his own bed and he\'s going to have to prove he can get the job done. I\'m giving Haslett the benefit of the doubt. I know Haslett can\'t do everything, but I\'ve got to see a good solid coaching job done this year or I\'m through with Haslett.

It\'s kinda hard to find much to talk about this time of year, I just threw this topic out there.....
GumboBC is offline  
Old 07-06-2004, 02:06 AM   #16
1000 Posts +
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,020
Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????

Some fans are too quick to call for the coaching and qb changes.
Does this include when they change to the wrong coach or wrong quarterback ?? Cause in that case , can we start screaming earlier ???
saintz08 is offline  
Old 07-06-2004, 09:28 AM   #17
5000 POSTS! +
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,631
Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????

While lummOx is correct that the coach is held responsible for every single facet of his team, that doesn’t make it the right thing to do. It depends on the circumstances.
It absolutely is the right thing to do. In the corporate world, if a mid-level manager fails he gets fired. If the organization fails to meet expectations (earning - their own or the street\'s) the CEO is fired. Not the mid-level personnel. Not the linemen, the executives. Was it the executives that actually did the work? No, and often times they have FAR LESS say on who their employees are then do football coaches. They are judged solely on their ability to execute a strategy, regardless of who is actually doing the work.

I think football coaches hve far more wiggle room. What has Haslett asked for that he has not received? His players? His coaches? New training facility? New Dome surface? Consultation for experts, other coaches, former greats for him and his players?

In essence, it\'s like a new CEO being named at IBM, and then that guy coming in, replacing every employee from the COO to the janitor, getting consultants, new state-of-the-art facilities, and then still failing. That guy wouldn\'t just be fired, he\'d probably be sued and maybe even brought up on charges.

That\'s the real world. Don\'t forget for a minute that this is a business, and while winning doesn\'t necessarily translate into better returns, it certainly helps. This is it - time for Haslett, Brooks, and the entire team to put up - or else every single person in the football operations side of the house should be worried about his job.

[Edited on 6/7/2004 by WhoDat]

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
WhoDat is offline  
Old 07-06-2004, 09:38 AM   #18
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,616
Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????

WhoDat --

I agree that the coach has to be the one who is ulitimately held responsible for the failure of a team to win. No matter whose fault it is.

My point, however, is that it\'s not always the coaches fault. Not that the coach shouldn\'t be held responsible.

And I don\'t like comparing the corperate world to the NFL. A pulled hamstring doesn\'t keep a CEO from picking up the phone....
GumboBC is offline  
Old 07-06-2004, 12:07 PM   #19
5000 POSTS! +
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,631
Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????

... a pulled hamstring might not, but skilled labor may.

My point is - you may not be able to fault a coach for a play, or a series, or a game, or een a bad season. But you CAN and SHOULD hold him responsible for THREE or FOUR seasons with similar results. At that point, it is his FAULT - IMO. Just like I give Bellicheck credit for putting together a team to win the SB two of the last three years, I credit Haslett with the lion\'s share of responsibility for the Saints poor play.

Billy - one last thing, don\'t forget - the NFL IS the corporate world. Nobody is in that league for fun - they\'re in it to make money (except maybe Leisle who will apparently play for a dollar a day)

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
WhoDat is offline  
Old 07-06-2004, 12:25 PM   #20
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,616
Coaching is the key!!!!! Or is it????

WhoDat --

I agree that 3 years of mediocrity is not a good sign for Haslett. One year, ok. Two years, maybe. 3 years and no matter what the problems are, Haslett has to get them corrected. This year is the year for Haslett in my mind. I hope we remain virutally injury free so we can see what this team is all about.

But, whatever happens Haslett has to bear the responsibility.

Like Gator said. Sometimes change is necessary whether that be for the better or worse.
GumboBC is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:13 PM.


Copyright 1997 - 2013 - BlackandGold.com
no new posts