I am in shock.
 

Truly. Is it really this easy for us to be sucked in? This easy? Can anyone tell me please how many 4 game winning streaks we have had under Haslett? 3 games? We had a two game winning streak earlier this year, can anyone tell me what happened after that? When we played winless Arizona and winless Tampa Bay?

I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm, but it seems like every post is about what we need to do to get in the playoffs. Seriously? Can anyone tell me what we needed to do the last two games last year to get in? Did we not miss an EXTRA POINT in Jacksonville and kill all that? Come on fellas. Appreciate the win, but let's not get carried away. Playoffs? For this team? Less we forget, we beat two teams with worse records than our own. We still did not get an offensive TD against Tampa until the 4th quarter. Had it not been for our D, whom I do wanna praise greatly for their play the last two weeks, we would have been blown out of the last two. Is everyone seriously hanging their playoff hopes on Venturi's side of the ball? Seriously? Grain of salt fellas. In the spirit of the holiday season, I will quote a famous figure from history, Bah humbug. And to quote a famous tv show title from an HBO series, curb your enthusiasm. There is still LOTS to be done. Even with that said, it is good to see some positive posts around here, I guess with the exception of me. I will do my best to curb my negativity until we are let down again.

I am in shock.
 

Saintswhodi,

You know it\'s easy to be sucked in because there\'s not a lot to be thankful for this year. Nothing has gone right but I have to say they have played with heart the last 2 games and even if they don\'t make it, any fan can appreciate that.

1) I\'d like to see us make it because I now hate ESPN and Chris Berman etc... bunch of New York know it alls.

2) Because I\'m tired of ignorant Louisiana citizen El Stupidoes (trying not to descriminate or call out) saying \"why should we give the Saints money when they NEVER win,\" and they\'re so stupid they don\'t realize that money isn\'t the State\'s to have because it\'s money the Saints generate from their very existance here IN NEW ORLEANS, and NONE of that money needs to go ANYWHERE BUT NEW ORLEANS in my opinion anyway.

3) How long has it been since we\'ve even won a game in December? I mean come on! I\'m always depressed and giving up on this team in December for the past 3 years. I feel good for once.

I think change will happen before next year one way or another. But I have to say Haslett and the Saints have shown a lot of \"testicles\" trying to win out and do what they are trying to do. Any other team and Coaching staff in the NFL would have completely rolled over and died, or the coach would have resigned by now.

I mean come on, at the last game I went to fans were selling and wearing \"Fire Haslett\" shirts all over the place.

I\'ll support any Saints Team, or any team for that matter, that plays with heart and determination no matter what their record is or their talent level. I\'m like most fans, I really (in the end) like to watch good, entertaining football. The past 2 games have been COMPLETELY REFRESHING.

If they fold the next few weeks then they\'ve show their true colors. But at least we have something to talk about during Christmas as opposed to watching other teams cake roll over us.

A wins a win. There is so much partity in the NFL, teams have a chance to win their divisions with losing records!!! There are only 2 gangbuster teams this year and both almost lost to teams with losing records this week,

[Edited on 12/20/2004 by Halo]

I am in shock.
 

Why did the Saints fan cross the road??





To finally get to the other side.

I am in shock.
 

While I admit rooting for this team to do something good in December seems a little silly,but why not root for them to win? It\'s all about makin the playoffs isn\'t it? Do you think the fans in Carolina are rooting against their team because they think it\'s pointless? Of course not.

I\'ll be pulling for this team until the season is over and I wish everyone else would too. I hope the Dome is filled with fans foaming at the mouth. I hope that inspires the team, and I hope we beat Atlanta Sunday, and I hope that carries over to a win on the final Sunday in Carolina, and I ultimately hope the team makes the playoffs. We\'re as good as any other team that might be there. Frankly, I can\'t see a reason NOT to wish and hope and pray and root for these things...unless you\'d rather see \'em lose so the coach gets fired.

I am in shock.
 

Good points Halo, and like I said, I will attempt to curb my negativity until the next letdown. If it never happens, then that only benefits all of us.

I am in shock.
 

Hey man, there\'s a LOT to be negative about, dont\' be shy about that. Don\'t get me wrong, if we fold our tent for the final 2 games and lose big to Atlanta or something or quit in that or any game, I will be in line to call for Haslett\'s head on a platter too. If we lose on a field goal I will applaud them but also say it was too little too late.

But my hopes of playing a game in January are just very high seeing we haven\'t played one since 2000. I know a lot of people feel the same.

If 8-8 makes the playoffs and we can have a chance... even a slim margin of a chance to march to a Superbowl, I\'m cool with it.

All Saints fans ask for is a consistant march to get to the BIG SHOW and some respect from the NFL. Right now we have no respect, but if we won out or at least played with heart we will at least NOT BE LAUGHED AT.

Like you, I\'m tired of all the debates and BS, just WIN!

I am in shock.
 

I saw this in today\'s Psycho\'s View on the front page and thought it fit:

I agree in that winning these last two games means diddly squat if we don\'t win out, and what are the chances of that happening? Has Haslett ever had a 4 game winning streak? Just thoughts to ponder while we are racing our team into the playoffs. The worst possible scenario for this team is happening right now UNLESS we win out. What will prob happen is we will beat Atlanta, get even higher on the team, then lay the enormous Carolina egg, ushering them into the playoffs. People are saying we have heart, but that is a team with heart. 1-7 to go on a 5 game winning streak? If we have any heart we are still learning what it\'s all about. Hopefully it will carry into next year.

I am in shock.
 

Why can\'t we be the Panthers for once? What can\'t we be the team that comes from no where? In the playoffs the season starts over. It doesn\'t matter what happened the past 16 games it only matters what happens now. We win we are in. Let\'s root for our team and watch them get into the playoffs.

I am in shock.
 

We aren\'t the Panthers eran. And til they show me they are, my jaded heart will continue to doubt. Sorry. A 4 game surge into the playoffs would definitely put me in a better mood about the team though. We just haven\'t done it yet, and I have been set up, as we all have, for this same scenario too many times before under this regime.

I am in shock.
 

well to me its like this we have won the last two games. have a chance to play an atlanta team i think we can beat and probally play them at a half because they have notrhing left to play for. they cant beat out philly for home field and they cant be beat out for the other first round bye. so we have a chance this week. if we win that then damn wouldnt it be nice watching the last game of the season as a win it and were in. at least the team is playing with more passion. im a fan again. and i want them to win we have a chance at the playoffs and thats all that is on my mind right now

I am in shock.
 

It\'s time for the Saints to put up or shut up. Coach Haz will
get a hell of alot better send off if he takes the Saints to the playoffs. :shock: Does everyone see the teams that will make it for the NFC Packers, Vikings, Falcons, Eagles, Seahawks and hoepfully the Saints. Lets face it anyone of these teams could make it to the superbowl and why not us.

I am in shock.
 

Shoot, I\'m game for anything if they go 2-0 these last two games and get in great. If not we shouldn\'t be dissappointed it\'s what we expected of em in the first place. If all we expect is nagative we will get negative. However, eventhough the D has played well the last two weeks, I\'m still first in line to hand VENTURI his doggone pink slip. Get him out of here please. Also i would love to 1 the first round and then knock phily or atl out the second round. Until then win out fellas..

I am in shock.
 

Fans of this team are so disheartened by years of defeat that they happily accept mediocrity. It infuriates me too Whoodi, but that\'s the way it is. It will always be this way in NO. Doesn\'t matter that Haslett has never had a season where he didn\'t start or end 3-5 or worse. Doesn\'t matter that only Arizona, Cleveland, and Cincinnati (up until recently) are the only franchises willing to accept .500 and no playoffs for 4 straight years b/c the team wins 2 or 3 games in December. Everywhere else that\'s an outrage. Arizona, Cincy, Cleveland, Seattle, and NO, maybe add Detroit or Chicago... that\'s the company we\'re in. Pathetic, but there are always excuses, every year there\'s excuses, excuses, excuses. It\'s not the coach it\'s the players... who picked the players? Nevermind that, nobody could have predicted all these players would be busts... actually, the scouting reports suggested it... well the coach is just unlucky, that\'s it, blame it on lady luck. Whatever. Don\'t be surprised when the Saints \"rebuild\" the entire defense this offseason with second and third tier players, preach that this is the best team ever in training camp, stumble and bumble to 8-8, and then you hear the same people next year suggesting that it\'s still not time for change - that Haslett really isn\'t the one to blame.

I am in shock.
 

BNB gave me the whipped dog scenario a week or so ago, and it fits well. I hope everyone enjoys these moments of euphoria they are enjoying right now and hope I can join in come January. But I am not holding my breath as the track record is not good.

I am in shock.
 

I\'m not sure any of us are holdin\' our breath whodi. We all wanna be undefeated right now. None of us really know what\'s wrong with the team...some think they do, but none of us really know.

That being said, personally, I could never pull against this team, even if I thought Haz was the worst coach in the history of the NFL (and I don\'t) I\'d still want to see him succeed. I \"hope\" the team figures it out and goes on a little run, and I\'ll be ticked (again) if they don\'t, but I\'m happy after EVERY Saints win...even the ugly ones.

I am in shock.
 

There\'s no point in me pulling against them now Saintsfan cause the things I wanted are gone. High draft pick, new coach. Right now, I am muddling in shock that A) Haslett will keep his job B) we screwed ourselves out of a chance at a top flight defensive player and C) history tells me it will be all for nothing. If the last two wins had put us in the playoffs, my head would be in the clouds too. But I have to count on this team to win two IMPORTANT games, when 2 years ago they couldn\'t win one in 3 to get in? Like I said, we will prob beat Atlanta, then drop an egg aginst Carolina. That\'s our M.O. It will be impressive enough that they won 3 in a row, but the big letdown is on the horizon so I am guarding myself form getting my hopes up. More power to you guys who can rise above the pain of recent history going against us.

I am in shock.
 

well i agree that more then likely we will come out in one of theese games and just play horrible and get destroyed and we will all be hurt again. i cant blame you for guarding against it. but bro if we can make the playoffs and they somehow win 4 in a row, well man can you imagine finally watching a game in january. that will be so nice

I am in shock.
 

And that\'s exactly why Benson is willing to keep Haslett - b/c his fanbase is happy just having a shot, no matter how wild the scenario, at the playoffs - they don\'t actually have to get there.

I am in shock.
 

:shrug:

Might as well pull for \'em folks, doesn\'t look like all the wasted breath on here is gonna change anything in the long run.

Haslett\'s gonna stay, probably Brooks and Loomis too, maybe even McCarthy and Venturi (shudder). The hopes of losing out to get that one magical draft pick that would surely rattle the foundations and save our team are dashed. Looks like we\'ll have to watch Derrick Johnson single-handedly turn someone else\'s team around next season... ;)

Hey, are we fans or not? Sure we\'ve all been crushed in similar scenerios for years and years ... but we pulled for \'em then too, huh? I don\'t think they\'ll make it, but if they do they\'ll be just as deserving as any of the other flunkies from the NFC who may slime their way in. Look at the NFC West, for chrissake!

I don\'t necessarily think the fanbase is happy with mediocrity, just used to it. If we were, we wouldn\'t spend inordinate amounts of time on message boards debating, theorizing, etc. on how we could be better. Fact is, mediocrity is what we\'ve had since the beginning of the organization, it\'s what we have now, and it\'s unfortunately what we\'re likely to continue to have. Under this premise, we might as well start attacking Benson, too (I couldn\'t argue).

Oh well. It\'s painful in so many ways to see this again and again, but at the same time it\'s like that bum knee that hurts for so long you eventually get used to it. Call it defensive pessimism: if they make it - we\'re pleasantly surprised. If they don\'t - hey, we didn\'t really expect them to, anyway.

I am in shock.
 

Just so you know, we won 6 games straight under Haslett in his first season with Jeff Blake so that whining about not winning is illogical. Look at it this way. Carolina lost. St. Louis lost. Tampa Bay lost. The Saints have won 2 straight. Of the 3 6-8 teams going for the final wild card spot, we have the momentum.

We beat St. Louis already and play Carolina in 2 weeks. If we can score early, run, and make Vick throw, we will beat Atlanta because our team has comradarie again. St. Louis is probably going to lose the next 2 games even if Philly doesn\'t have T.O.

The Saints have the best receiver in the league this season and Stallworth is on fire. The defense is coming together too. If the Saints can beat Atlanta, who has no reason to win the game since they clinched with home field, we are going to make it to the playoffs.

Fight for our team dammint! We need to support them and give them all of the energy we can.

I am in shock.
 

Ahh, yes ... and then Aaron Brooks came along...

I am in shock.
 

.. The saints are my team.. I will always root for them no matter what.. if they make it to the playoffs this year, great... I\'ll cheer for them until their season is over.. then I\'ll come back next year and do the same...

...that said...

..what is really getting to me this year, is that the only reason the Saints even have a chance to make the playoffs this year is because the conference as a whole blows. Not only that, the Saints don\'t have an excuse for an 8-8 season in a division that\'s so bad! How bad is this conference? The Cardinals have a shot at winning their division at 7-9!!

.. I am not going to use this thread to blame anyone for anything... but I am tired of mediocrity... how many more 8-8 7-9 seasons can we take? This year it just happens that 8-8 gets you in, if not 7-9, but more often than not that gets you what we have gotten the past 3 seasons...


... that said, I\'m sucked in :)

I am in shock.
 

Ever read a post on here that just gets your blood boiling?

There\'s a couple of post in this thread that has steam coming out of my ears. :mad:

But, getting mad never solved anything. So, let me try this:

It seems some fans have a desire for the Saints to lose so certain changes will take place.

My response?

Hmm... As mad as itmakes me to read stuff like that, I can respect that. However, I strongly disagree with it. In this NFL, where ANYTHING can happen (and usually does) how can anyone in their right mind hope we don\'t make the playoffs?

I, for one, am not interested in what changes some fans want to make when it involves LOSING to get it done. I think it\'s human nature to hope. I mean, come on, this is the Saints we\'re talking about here. Haven\'t you guys seen enough losing in your lifetime? I know I have.

NO SIR !! I\'ve seen too many teams that had seemingly no business making it to the super bowl. Why not us? There is no reason it shouldn\'t be us.

I really don\'t care who some folks think the coach or the starting QB should be. I\'m not even saying you guys are wrong.

But.... What I am saying is that wishing us to lose will make the majority of Saints fans mad as hell. ;)

I am in shock.
 

Actually, it\'d be more accurate to say that they\'ve been so disheartened by years of defeat that they EMBRACE mediocrity, and preferably worse...they CRAVE it as their reassurance that \"all is right with the world, things are as they\'ve always been\". A hefty portion of \"Saints Nation\" (sorry...I\'m a life-long Red Sox fan, and I\'m still a little giddy) are actually more comfortable with a loser to be the butt of their jokes than they are investing the same amount of hope into their team that fans of other teams seem to. They WANT their team to lose...their whole relationship with sports is based on their constant b!tching over, complaining about, and ridiculing of their \"favorite\" team. How else do you think a semi-literate with a mouthful of marbles like Buddy DiLiberto can be established as \"The Big Daddy of Sports\" as far as the Saints are concerned ON THE SAINTS FLAGSHIP STATION??? These \"fans\" we\'re speaking of LOVE the fact that you can hear the utter joy in his voice (even if you can\'t make out the actual words) when a season is going sour.

The prevailing opinion has always seemed to be that, because of how long New Orleans had waited for an ultimate winner, and because of the large percentage of that time in which the city was treated to really bad football, that should the Saints ever actually win an NFL Championship you would see the party to end all parties...the biggest, baddest, most raucous celebration you\'ve ever seen. I disagree. I think a much larger percentage of New Orleanians than you might think would be more disturbed than joyous...because in their minds, whoever the coach, quarterback, offensive coordinator, what have you, happens to be at that particular time, there will still be a fair sized group who think at least one of them is a bum, and that the championship means nothing more than a few more years of someone they can\'t stand. Celebration day for malcontents is never after a accomplishment of ultimate success--it\'s after admission of ultimate defeat.

I am in shock.
 

The bottom line is, I can\'t root against the Saints, whether it is a means to an end or not. You can be objective/negative and still root hard for the team. This year has been littered with bad football, but I have watched all of it. If we finish 8-8 and make the playoffs in a watered down NFC, that doesn\'t mean we\'re any batter than the 9-7 team that missed the playoffs....it\'s a different year.

A playoff berth will not change the fact that both coordinators simply have to go. I can stomach one more year of Haslett/Loomis if Benson wants to save his 6 mil. Good coordinators will make a coach look better every time. Belichick has been surrounded by top notch assistants for a few years now. He\'s a good coach, but his assistants really help him run the show. Haz may be able to do a little better with some help. Gruden had lots of good things to say about Jim this weekend and he may be looking for a job. I\'d take him as an assistant. Mike Singletary as a DC? I would love to see that. His stock is on the rise and he may be a possibility.

Hey, the NFC is bad, but what if we won all 4 December games...We go into the playoffs against teams that aren\'t playing good football right as we are starting to play real defense. It could be fun to watch. We\'ve underachived all year.....maybe we can\'t turn it on. I\'m not saying I won\'t be in shock if I sit in front of my TV for a Saints playoff game, but I\'ll root like crazy for the next 2 weeks.

I am in shock.
 

Once again it appears some may be mis-reading. Just to make it clear, I have given up hoping for the Saints to lose precisely because of the last two wins. There is no reason for me to continue to hope for them to lose when the two things I wanted, a new coach and a high draft pick, are both fluttering away in the breeze. What I will not do though is allow myself to be sucker punched by this team again. Some of you may love your older cousin who is cool to hang out with but punches you out of nowhere and bloodies your nose every now and then, but I tend to avoid this guy. Now if he overgoes a major overhaul and gets some help, I am willing to give him a shot. But if he is the same guy I have always known, I am gonna be waiting for that succer punch and not believe he has changed his stripes. That\'s our Saints.

Gumbo, just as it may make your blood boil to see some not jump back on the bandwagon, it baffles me how a team that was the joke of the league for the majority of the season with the VAST majority of the fans calling for the coaches and some players heads is now being showered with love for beating two sub-par teams the likes of which they should have been whipping on all year. And they have two teams better than them on the schedule to beat to make it to the playoffs. I will repeat my question, when has this team EVER won an important game, a game that matters? Ever? Definitely not under Haslett\'s watch. THIS IS THE SAME TEAM WITH THE SAME COACHES AND SAME QB. We didn\'t suddenly import a winning attitude and some heart. As I have repeatedly said, I am glad for you guys who have found some joy in these last two wins, your resolve is much stronger than mine. Until the playoffs are sealed, this year is no different than the last 4 mediocre disappointing seasons. But anything can happen in the playoffs as was said, we just have to wait and see if we are the team anything can happen for. We still have to make it.

[Edited on 21/12/2004 by saintswhodi]

I am in shock.
 

saintswhodi --

I respect your opinion. Really, I do.

But, as things happen during the course of the year, I try and keep an open mind.

You seem to have given up on this current administration? Well, what if we do make the playoffs? What if we make it to the NFC championship game? Don\'t laugh!! Did you pick the Panthers to make it last year? I doubt it.....

Now, if we miss out on the playoffs, then there\'s a very strong case for Haslett to go.

The point is this .. I\'m not worried about last year, or the year before, or even any of the games this year. Haslett\'s job is to get this team to the playoffs. It\'s really simple. Bill Parcells ain\'t going this year and I bet he\'d be happy to be sitting with Haslett\'s record right now.

Let\'s see what happens and ONLY then can we judge.

I am in shock.
 

Dude....no disrespect intended, but 382 posts? You \"tend to avoid this guy\"??? LOL

I am in shock.
 

Puddin, maybe I should say I tend to avoid letting this guy sucking me in to believing he has changed, but I sure as hell don\'t mind talking about him. lol

Gumbo, respect all around. As I have been saying, I am envious of all who can so easily forget that this is the same team we have had for 4 years letting us down. They have not changed. Haslett has done a great job of leading us to the playoffs the last 4 years. We needed a win at Jax last year, what happened? We nned to beat 1 of 3 losing teams the year before, what happened? I strongly believe that even if we beat Atlanta, Carolina has more heart and toughness than our team cause this is the same team. Same as Carolina, Same team minus a few injuries that had the heart and toughness to make it last year. After a certain point last year, you knew Carolina had a chance. We have never gotten to a point where anyone has said anything good about us until now, and national sportswriters still won\'t touch us cause they are waiting for the letdown as well. If we make the playoffs like I said, I will be doing a jig along with you guys, but as logn as there is doubt that we will make it this team usually finds a way to screw it up.

I am in shock.
 

saintswhodi -

Let\'s assume that this team is a bad as you think. At least let\'s give Haslett credit for giving us a very good shot at making the playoffs. We basically control our own destiny. You can\'t ask for much more than that.

Believe me, there are a bunch of very good coaches that wish they were in that position. I wouldn\'t get caught up in that doom and gloom stuff. It\'ll be plenty of time to be depressed if we don\'t make the playoffs. But, for right now, we have hope.

We\'re not doomed to repeat the past.

Don\'t worry be happy, man.... ;)

I am in shock.
 

Gumbo, I can\'t give Haslett credit for anything. But I will give the TEAM credit for showing up the last two games and getting wins. Both victories were good cause they happened because of strong play from the defense, which has been our downfall for too long. So I will give the TEAM credit for being in a position to make the playoffs. Haslett just needs to go.

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That\'s exactly the point Bill - it is human nature to hope. Those who are successful, IMO, are almost always the ones who hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. Unfortunately, in business, and that\'s what this is, sometimes you just have to face facts. Realism is an unparalleled identifier of success, in my experience.

Now, I don\'t want to get into the same old argument about who is more \"realistic\" on this board. Instead, I\'ll ask a simple question - what do you see in this coaching staff that makes you believe anything will change?

And with all due respect, please don\'t tell me about what OTHER teams have done - those rules don\'t really apply to the Saints. If you use the, well other teams have done it argument, why am I not free to use the \"history says them, not us\" argument?

I think if you address the question, really try to answer it, you\'ll peal back those layers of hope and see the reality of the situation. In any case, I leave you to answer this: what do you see in this coaching staff that makes you believe anything will change?


[Edited on 21/12/2004 by WhoDat]

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Question of the day WhoDat. Hell, question of the last 3 years.

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Or even: why should anything change?

Haslett has made a career here of going about .500. It seems apparent that he\'s going to keep his job, so why change the rest of the coaching staff? I\'m sure he\'ll fire the WR\'s coach or something to make a token gesture, but how does that change or improve anything?

I don\'t see any reason to believe that we won\'t be having this same discussion next year.

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Yes, Aaron did come along and won the only playoff game the Saints have ever won. There are always jealous people that attack people with a gift that they covet. Tom Brady played like monkey pooh last night. I guess you think he\'s horrible now too?

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wow. What has the world come to that Aaron Brooks can get compared to a two time Superbowl MVP having one bad game in as long a time as anyone can remember, against one of the top defenses in the league. I guess that playoff win gives him a Brady-esque pass to screw us forever. Come on DJ, surely youdon\'t think that huh?

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LOL! Yeah, Tom Brady sucks. You think the Pats will trade him straight up for Aaron Brooks? Surely they wanna get rid of him now, after losing two games out of his last 24 (or something like that)!

But seriously, if you read back on some other posts, you\'ll find that I offered an apology to AB for some of the relatively nasty things I\'ve been saying about him. In fact, I said if he could exhibit some legitimate leadership - as he did in the Tampa game - I\'d be more than happy to eat my harsh words. All I\'m asking of the guy is that he actually earn the ridiculous sum of money the team is paying him, and given how sorry the line played, he did Sunday.

As for being jealous of abilities you assume I covet, I\'m pretty sure I could fumble, throw backwards, and subsequently laugh about it with the best of \'em. Damn sure I could do it for $3 Million a year.

Sorry ... couldn\'t help myself.

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DGL! Oh my G-d! Did you just say that Tom Brady was an NFL QB who had a bad game and AB is an NFL QB who didn\'t!

NOOOOOOOO!!!

That\'s impossible! The world will surely come to an end now that you\'ve uttered this horrible, impossible, incomprehensible statement!

NOOOOOOOOO!!!

;)

Whodi, you know I couldn\'t resist. :)

[Edited on 22/12/2004 by JKool]

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JKool, not dissing you here, but do you really wanna discuss the NUMBER of bad games between the two? That might just turn out worse than the old Favre/Brooks comparison we loved so well! ;)

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I am gonna choose not to touch this one this time. As per your joke Kool, I am sure you already know where I stand on anyone comparing another NFL qb to that wanna be Brooks. :sulkoff: