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New Rules???????????????

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; People complain that almost every discussion turns into an AB thread. It's funny to me that most times when that happens, someone is trying to be crafty on a "don't look at Brooks blame someone else" kinda way. How that ...

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Old 02-08-2005, 12:02 PM   #1
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New Rules???????????????

People complain that almost every discussion turns into an AB thread. It's funny to me that most times when that happens, someone is trying to be crafty on a "don't look at Brooks blame someone else" kinda way. How that is supposed to NOT turn into a discussion with Brooks included is beyond me. If you are discussing O-line, who are they blocking for, the Pope? If you are discussing dropped passes, who is throwing the ball, President Bush? We need some semblance of reality here. But here's the thing, if we are gonna say "If the discussion does not include AB, don't bring him into it, " fine. Let's do that. But if there is an AB thread, don't bring in the dropped passes and o-line, and defense or ANYTHING ELSE BUT AB. Seem fair to everyone? Or not? Can this be done? I doubt it. Cause there are those who want AB blamed for NOTHING, and there are those who after 4 years are tired of the excuses and want something different. Seems like Repubs and Dems to me, thay aren't ever gonna merge into one party. So what say the BNG faithful? Ab discussions with no mention of any other part of the team, and discussions of other parts of the team and no AB? Seem Fair? Possible? Holla.
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Old 02-08-2005, 12:15 PM   #2
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i think that\'s fair-brooks has enough to work on without bringing anyone else into it..as does the defense, the running back, and the o-line.

each of part of the team has areas they can work on..me-as a non-brooks supporter, not a brooks basher, I just think that he\'s hasn\'t progressed since he got here and is just becoming more erratic and un-accountable/un-coachable and it\'s time to look elsewhere.

the o-line has problems--most of which have nothing to do with the qb, some of which would be minimized if our qb/rb play was better.

the rb was out of shape and injured--we didn\'t have anyone to back him up..stecker stepped up, but is that something we can count on consistently..i don\'t think so. The line didn\'t help..but still, the line can\'t keep him in shape and he was oft-injured in college as well.

the wideouts dropped balls-was that all brooks\' fault..probably not..they\'ve still got to run their routes and the better wideouts make their qb\'s look better. I\'m not so sure that horn wouldn\'t be best traded to be honest-he\'s older and wants to get paid..

the defense: our linebacking core is weak..I think if we improve on that it woul d drastically upgrade our defense..letting everyone else stop compensating for their poor play...though brockwoldt and watson did impress me.

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Old 02-08-2005, 12:16 PM   #3
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I was wondering when this was going to come up.

I used to wonder how the \"old\" guys on the board used to get into these \"agenda\" disputes or the whole \"optimist/pessimist\" stuff. Having had several good, though intense, discussions over the last few weeks, I\'ve started to get an inkling.

There are those who seem to have a lot of trouble seeing each other\'s point. This of course demands diagnosis (usually it is something childish like \"the other guy is dumb, he isn\'t a real fan, or he has never watched football\"). However, a more reasonable explanation is that he is an optimist or pessimist. I have often argued that it doesn\'t matter which side you are on.

I just wanted you guys who\'ve been around longer than I to know that I finally understand why that stuff was of interest to you.

On another note though, this rule you propose Whodi, is not an acceptable rule. If a guy is being \"crafty\", by all means call him out - it was really an AB thread in the first place then. If he really just wants to talk about the OLine, then there is only a small way in which AB is important. It is possible to steer conversations back on track.

However, since football is a team game, and other aspects of the game effect each unit, each player, and the outcome, I don\'t know what you mean by discussing AB in the abscence of a discussion of the OLine etc? I don\'t think I can even make sense of that.

If the discussion is about AB the person, fine. If the discussion is about AB and his on field performance, I think there is no way you can get around discussing the things around them.

In a way, your idea of dropping the other stuff is the opposite kind of thing you dislike. You don\'t want people to talk about the WR, the defense, or the OLine when you are impugning AB. However, those things did affect how we are thinking of him, viewing him, his performance, and his stats.

What would you want to talk about then? How bad he is? Well, how bad he is is in part on him and in part on the coaches and in part on the rest of the players around him.

Everyone agrees that AB is inconsistent to some extent, that he makes a lot of turnovers (at bad times no less), that he says dumb things to the media, that he smiles after interceptions, he is not a vocal leader, and so on.

That isn\'t interesting. What is interesting is what we should do with those facts, how we should think about those things, how bad are they in relation to our team. I don\'t see how you can answer those questions without talking about the rest of the team.

So, I say, it is NOT possible.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks :cool:
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Old 02-08-2005, 12:19 PM   #4
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Kool, you made my point. That\'s why I love you guy. I DO NOT think it is possible either. Go read the offensive line thread and you will see where I am coming from, then get back to me.
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Old 02-08-2005, 12:25 PM   #5
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Look folks........

We can complicate this issue all ya want.

But, the simple fact is there\'s way to much talk about Aaron Brooks on this board. And that\'s the bottom line.

And most of it comes from the same people. Myself included.

There\'s better things to talk about.

The same people don\'t need to point out the same things about Brooks over and over and over. Myself included.

Is there anyone on here who does\'t know where I stand on every Brooks\' issue? I highly doubt it!! I\'m done defending Brooks in EVERY thread.

Is there anyone who doesn\'t know where saintwhodi stands on EVERY Brooks issue? I highly doubt it. Why keep saying it in every thread?

If someone talks about Brooks over 50% of the time they spend on this board, that person has an agenda.



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Old 02-08-2005, 12:27 PM   #6
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good post kool. one thing i ask though of this statement-
Everyone agrees that AB is inconsistent to some extent, that he makes a lot of turnovers (at bad times no less), that he says dumb things to the media, that he smiles after interceptions, he is not a vocal leader, and so on.
- does everyone agree? if there could be a consensus attained on these essential elements, especially the so on part, i think there could be some bridging of the gaps on views of ab. can everyone give a heart \"YEA\" to this? i say yea.
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Old 02-08-2005, 12:34 PM   #7
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Whodi, check.

LK, yea! I certainly think those things are true. I\'m certainly interested in hearing about the \"and so on\". I also think that these problems are relative to (1) a solution to them, and (2) their relative impact on our team. AND I think some people are just decided on this issue.

Furthermore, I really do understand everyone\'s frustration with it. I too am tired of having to rehash the same old things. However, sometimes there are some new things - new ways at looking at old things, and so on. I\'ve learned a lot in the last few weeks. Sure, I probably didn\'t change anyone\'s mind, but I didn\'t think that was the point.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks :cool:
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Old 02-08-2005, 12:38 PM   #8
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I think it just upsets me that certain posters will not hold brooks accountable for what he has done wrong and it\'s impact on our team.

the same-in my mind-holds true if it were any other player regardless of position.
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Old 02-08-2005, 12:44 PM   #9
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baron,

I understand your frustration.

However, I can\'t think of anyone who doesn\'t hold Brooks accountable here at B&G. Sure there is some dispute as to the level of accountability (and I\'m just going to assume you mean with respect to W-L, sorry if that isn\'t what you meant), but that makes sense to me.

There are some people who think that Brooks accountability for the team problems is VERY high. I\'ve got to say that I don\'t understand that (but I can see that some people seem to feel very strongly about it and say things that aren\'t stupid). There are others who think it is VERY low (I suppose I\'m CLOSER to that camp, since there are AT LEAST 21 other guys who contribute to how well our team performs). I\'m sure there are a bunch of guys in the middle.

That said, this perception that there are some people who think Brooks accountability for our team\'s performance is 0, is probably a mis-perception. Just as I\'m sure my occasional perception that there are some guys who think it is 100% is probably a mis-perception.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks :cool:
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Old 02-08-2005, 12:52 PM   #10
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well- i do think that the qg is the most important position on the feild offensively. and if your qb struggles so goes your offense.

I think-at least this year that duece\'s injury has contributed to alot of our offensive woe as well.

I also feel like-in regards to brooks-he would be bet served in a new atmosphere and us with a new qb--kinda a mutual breakup.. so that the team can be rejuvenated and a message can be sent to the rest of the guys that-hey, shape up to our offense or go somewhere else.
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