The 5 most important players in '05.

JKool · 03-27-2005, 12:47 PM

How long do they have to stop people until the offense gets in gear?

Once.

The offense should get a score at least every other drive. There are usually two or three drives in the first quarter. So, if they don\'t score once, and they had two chances (roughly), that is the offenses fault.

However, the first quarter is a bit different from the rest of the game, since it is where teams are \"feeling each other out\". If a team doesn\'t score on its opening drive, that can largely be attributed to poor game planning. On the second and third drives of the game, it is harder to pin the blame, but by the fourth drive, it has to be on the players (since by then the coaches should have made the adjustments). While these are sweeping generalizations, it has been my experience that they hold pretty well.

This means that the defense\'s real job is to stop the first drive - they must react and play better than the game plan set up to beat them. If they do this, they have done something impressive. If they don\'t, it is their fault. After the openning drive, it is on both the coaches and the players as far as the defense goes.

This stuff about feild position and defensive blame has recently become interesting to me. It is obviously the defense\'s job to stop the opposing team from scoring. Some times feild position is so bad that there is no hope of stopping a FG - in that case, the FG is not the defenses fault. As a rule, the defense should be given roughly 15-20 yards of leeway to stop a opposing offense, so if the O gives the ball away in the redzone, that score can\'t really be the defenses fault. HOWEVER, if the opposing team gets the ball on their own 40 or deeper, the score, whether a FG or TD is the defenses fault, IMO. Just some thoughts.

GumboBC · 03-27-2005, 05:10 PM

saintwhodi --

It\'s not fair to the defense? Excuse me, but I have a very hard time feeling sorry for the defense.

Is it asking to much for them to finish 15th in the NFL regardless of how our offense plays?

[Edited on 27/3/2005 by GumboBC]

FireVenturi · 03-27-2005, 11:26 PM

five most impt. on offense might be the whole O-Line!!!!!!!!!

JKool · 03-28-2005, 01:20 AM

FV,

That is a good point. Our team would improve dramatically with the improvement of our OLine!

I think though, that as big a problem as our OLine was, our Defense could really use some serious help.

shadowdrinker · 03-28-2005, 02:13 AM

\'\'The offense should get a score at least every other drive. \'\'

If only ...

That would make us the Greatest Offense EVER ...and is a bit of a stretch at this point..haha

If we could get..minimum..2 first downs on average every possesion..it would be stellar for our production..and give the D plenty of time to rest...of course even that is a stretch...

The main thing is..this Offense has got to learn to play harder when the stakes get higher...Red Zone...making points on turnovers...Big Plays...If we can just take advantage of our opportunities better..the Production will follow..And we will be a contender to make the Playoffs again...I truley believe that...

GoldenTomb · 03-28-2005, 03:03 AM

See what I think happened in this post was using the Defense as a scapegoat to avoid blaming the offense, namely Aaron Brooks.

Gumbo figures if he opens enough topics based on the defense, people will forget how futile the offense was. To be sure, the Defense was HORRIBLE, but they had a lot of help from the countless 3 and outs that our offense produced. You think that maybe if the offense was able to sustain those drives, the inferior D might not be so tired, and might actually feel inspired that the offense is trying to keep them off the field as long as possible???

Funny how people talk about bad D....Indianapolis\'s D is definitely worse than New Orleans, but they were able to play better due to their offense being efficient. How does an efficient D help an offense play better??? Hmmmmmmmm????

I think certain people are just trying to protect their certain favorite players from criticism.

JKool · 03-28-2005, 09:47 AM

Shadow, I meant that to be a general point. I agree our offense isn\'t meeting that standard. You\'re probably right though, it is probably more like 1 out of 3 drives - it is probably between 33% and 50% for a well functioning offense, in my experience. At any rate, when I coached that was our goal - a score on every other drive. Granted we never got it, but we came close in games where everything was working reasonably well.

I also agree that our red-zone production is completely unacceptable.

As another general point (and I do mean it generally, not directed at anyone person), regardless of Gumbo\'s psychological motivations for starting this thread (which I\'m not going to guess at), isn\'t it an interesting question? I guess, speaking losely, I\'m not sure why everyone is so concerned about why Gumbo has started a post - even if it were for some horrible reason, couldn\'t the topic still be worth discussing?

GT, a good defense can help the offense by getting the ball back in a timely manner (and, yes, ours did that many times) and with good field position. This is only one of the ways a defense can help the offense. Certainly, you\'ll agree with that, right?

baronm · 03-28-2005, 09:52 AM

five most impt. on offense might be the whole O-Line!!!!!!!!!

that\'s a start..honestly if the line holds up..our offense should..and I repeat..should be more effecient in the redzone.

GoldenTomb · 03-28-2005, 11:19 AM

GT, a good defense can help the offense by getting the ball back in a timely manner (and, yes, ours did that many times) and with good field position. This is only one of the ways a defense can help the offense. Certainly, you\'ll agree with that, right?

Absolutely. What I don\'t agree with is when the D is made to appear more at fault than any other part of the team. Why can\'t it be agreed that the TEAM did not play well and everyone should share in the blame??? What I got from this post is that the D is horrendous and they need to step it up until the O gets it into gear. People(no names) condemn the D and make excuses for the offense.

baronm · 03-28-2005, 11:23 AM

GT, a good defense can help the offense by getting the ball back in a timely manner (and, yes, ours did that many times) and with good field position. This is only one of the ways a defense can help the offense. Certainly, you\'ll agree with that, right?

Absolutely. What I don\'t agree with is when the D is made to appear more at fault than any other part of the team. Why can\'t it be agreed that the TEAM did not play well and everyone should share in the blame??? What I got from this post is that the D is horrendous and they need to step it up until the O gets it into gear. People(no names) condemn the D and make excuses for the offense.

no only one poster faults the defense for the offenses struggles.

our d isn\'t great..but I don\'t think it was the main cause of our 8-8 record.

03-27-2005, 12:47 PM	#11
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	The 5 most important players in '05. How long do they have to stop people until the offense gets in gear? Once. The offense should get a score at least every other drive. There are usually two or three drives in the first quarter. So, if they don\'t score once, and they had two chances (roughly), that is the offenses fault. However, the first quarter is a bit different from the rest of the game, since it is where teams are \"feeling each other out\". If a team doesn\'t score on its opening drive, that can largely be attributed to poor game planning. On the second and third drives of the game, it is harder to pin the blame, but by the fourth drive, it has to be on the players (since by then the coaches should have made the adjustments). While these are sweeping generalizations, it has been my experience that they hold pretty well. This means that the defense\'s real job is to stop the first drive - they must react and play better than the game plan set up to beat them. If they do this, they have done something impressive. If they don\'t, it is their fault. After the openning drive, it is on both the coaches and the players as far as the defense goes. This stuff about feild position and defensive blame has recently become interesting to me. It is obviously the defense\'s job to stop the opposing team from scoring. Some times feild position is so bad that there is no hope of stopping a FG - in that case, the FG is not the defenses fault. As a rule, the defense should be given roughly 15-20 yards of leeway to stop a opposing offense, so if the O gives the ball away in the redzone, that score can\'t really be the defenses fault. HOWEVER, if the opposing team gets the ball on their own 40 or deeper, the score, whether a FG or TD is the defenses fault, IMO. Just some thoughts.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

03-27-2005, 05:10 PM	#12
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	The 5 most important players in '05. saintwhodi -- It\'s not fair to the defense? Excuse me, but I have a very hard time feeling sorry for the defense. Is it asking to much for them to finish 15th in the NFL regardless of how our offense plays? [Edited on 27/3/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-27-2005, 11:26 PM	#13
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	The 5 most important players in '05. five most impt. on offense might be the whole O-Line!!!!!!!!!

03-28-2005, 01:20 AM	#14
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	The 5 most important players in '05. FV, That is a good point. Our team would improve dramatically with the improvement of our OLine! I think though, that as big a problem as our OLine was, our Defense could really use some serious help.

03-28-2005, 02:13 AM	#15
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	The 5 most important players in '05. \'\'The offense should get a score at least every other drive. \'\' If only ... That would make us the Greatest Offense EVER ...and is a bit of a stretch at this point..haha If we could get..minimum..2 first downs on average every possesion..it would be stellar for our production..and give the D plenty of time to rest...of course even that is a stretch... The main thing is..this Offense has got to learn to play harder when the stakes get higher...Red Zone...making points on turnovers...Big Plays...If we can just take advantage of our opportunities better..the Production will follow..And we will be a contender to make the Playoffs again...I truley believe that...
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

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03-28-2005, 03:03 AM	#16
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	The 5 most important players in '05. See what I think happened in this post was using the Defense as a scapegoat to avoid blaming the offense, namely Aaron Brooks. Gumbo figures if he opens enough topics based on the defense, people will forget how futile the offense was. To be sure, the Defense was HORRIBLE, but they had a lot of help from the countless 3 and outs that our offense produced. You think that maybe if the offense was able to sustain those drives, the inferior D might not be so tired, and might actually feel inspired that the offense is trying to keep them off the field as long as possible??? Funny how people talk about bad D....Indianapolis\'s D is definitely worse than New Orleans, but they were able to play better due to their offense being efficient. How does an efficient D help an offense play better??? Hmmmmmmmm???? I think certain people are just trying to protect their certain favorite players from criticism.
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

03-28-2005, 09:47 AM	#17
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	The 5 most important players in '05. Shadow, I meant that to be a general point. I agree our offense isn\'t meeting that standard. You\'re probably right though, it is probably more like 1 out of 3 drives - it is probably between 33% and 50% for a well functioning offense, in my experience. At any rate, when I coached that was our goal - a score on every other drive. Granted we never got it, but we came close in games where everything was working reasonably well. I also agree that our red-zone production is completely unacceptable. As another general point (and I do mean it generally, not directed at anyone person), regardless of Gumbo\'s psychological motivations for starting this thread (which I\'m not going to guess at), isn\'t it an interesting question? I guess, speaking losely, I\'m not sure why everyone is so concerned about why Gumbo has started a post - even if it were for some horrible reason, couldn\'t the topic still be worth discussing? GT, a good defense can help the offense by getting the ball back in a timely manner (and, yes, ours did that many times) and with good field position. This is only one of the ways a defense can help the offense. Certainly, you\'ll agree with that, right?
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

03-28-2005, 09:52 AM	#18
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	The 5 most important players in '05. five most impt. on offense might be the whole O-Line!!!!!!!!! that\'s a start..honestly if the line holds up..our offense should..and I repeat..should be more effecient in the redzone.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

03-28-2005, 11:19 AM	#19
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	The 5 most important players in '05. GT, a good defense can help the offense by getting the ball back in a timely manner (and, yes, ours did that many times) and with good field position. This is only one of the ways a defense can help the offense. Certainly, you\'ll agree with that, right? Absolutely. What I don\'t agree with is when the D is made to appear more at fault than any other part of the team. Why can\'t it be agreed that the TEAM did not play well and everyone should share in the blame??? What I got from this post is that the D is horrendous and they need to step it up until the O gets it into gear. People(no names) condemn the D and make excuses for the offense.
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

03-28-2005, 11:23 AM	#20
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	The 5 most important players in '05. GT, a good defense can help the offense by getting the ball back in a timely manner (and, yes, ours did that many times) and with good field position. This is only one of the ways a defense can help the offense. Certainly, you\'ll agree with that, right? Absolutely. What I don\'t agree with is when the D is made to appear more at fault than any other part of the team. Why can\'t it be agreed that the TEAM did not play well and everyone should share in the blame??? What I got from this post is that the D is horrendous and they need to step it up until the O gets it into gear. People(no names) condemn the D and make excuses for the offense. no only one poster faults the defense for the offenses struggles. our d isn\'t great..but I don\'t think it was the main cause of our 8-8 record.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954