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Saints: marching out??? Whodat's view on relocation rumors.

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by ScottyRo I don't think you'd have to worry. I'm sure they'll change the name and the logo. The Fluer De Lis being on the helmet of a team in L.A. makes absolutely no sense - even acknowledging ...

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Old 05-17-2005, 11:43 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by ScottyRo
I don't think you'd have to worry. I'm sure they'll change the name and the logo. The Fluer De Lis being on the helmet of a team in L.A. makes absolutely no sense - even acknowledging the move.
Whereas the Utah Jazz makes a ton of sense.

Gotcha!
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Old 05-17-2005, 12:09 PM   #22
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Let's not forget the Arizona Cardinals, St. Louis Rams, Los Angeles Lakers, and LA Dodgers. Raiders kept the name both moves. Maybe we can pull a Cleveland and but the rights to the name so noone else can have it. But why?
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Old 05-17-2005, 12:58 PM   #23
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Too much assumption and not enough facts. The opinion article written doesn't add up to everything I've read. And it seems to be slanted in favor of the State of Louiaiana. ( who mysteriously found 360 million dollars. They lose all credibility with me)

WhoDat seems to have a bias when it comes to Mr. Tom Benson.

Gov. Blanco is the one who proposed the negotiations in the first place. Benson wanted a new stadium and the only offer he received was to take less money than he was promised by the State of Louisiana in the first place.

It's not hard to show Mr. Tom Benson in a negative light. When that's what it appear WhoDat's intentions were to begin with.

There's way more to this issue than WhoDat has discussed. And in my opinion he is way off base.
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Old 05-17-2005, 01:37 PM   #24
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I'm a big fan of honoring contracts that you signed. This goes for players who hold out and it goes for a state that doesn't like a deal anymore that - after looking at the numbers again - is too expensive to honor.
So obviously the state wants to renegotiate. In my opinion the 2001 contract should only be ripped apart if both parties agree on a new one. The state isn't offering a sweeter deal for Benson so he doesn't want to void the old one.
There are a few things that won't happen:
a) The Saints (or rather Benson) won't pay a 81 million dollar fine so they can get out of the contract. That's crazy talk and shouldn't even be brought up. All the move talk is simply a precaution in case the state simply declares it won't pay the Saints anymore, thus making it possible for them to move.
b) A move to Albuquerque or L.A. I just don't see it.
c) Somebody paying 1.2 billion dollars. I mean, come on! The only thing I can think of how they came up with that number is if it wasn't a cash offer but something thrown in that is vastly overpriced, such as a piece of land for a billion when it's actually worth 200 million.

Is there one good guy and one bad guy? The gloves came off and both sides aren't picky when trying to impress the public.
It all comes down to this:
Blanco wants a new deal, but still "We're not going to give them a single legal leg to stand on that would allow the team to leave without paying a penalty" - meaning they (the State) would have to pay for 2 more years.
Benson likes the deal. Why should he accept anything less?

There's lots of reason for Saints fans not to like Tom Benson - his apparently missing passion for the franchise, the "culture of mediocricy" he supports etc. - but this is a business matter. I can't fault either of the protagonists in this ... negotiation? fight? battle?
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Old 05-17-2005, 02:00 PM   #25
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no cloning, in principal I agree with you. Here's the flip side to your player sshould honer their contract argument, shouldn't NFL teams do the same? Shouldn't Troy Brown still be a Patriot, and if he was cut, shouldn;t he gets paid what he was gonna anyway? If you feel all contracts should be honored, then NFL teams should not be allowed to cut players without paying them every cent they agreed to in their contract. They don't, and cut any player when it fits the team, so as per the CBA, a player has the right to hold out.

The second part is that the state should honor the deal. Again, in principal, I agree. But if the deal was made in haste by a DIFFERENT administration, why isn't it in the new administration's right to attempt to make a deal that is more reasonable? Foster threw the house at Benson cause he knew he was getting out, and left the problem for someone else. That would be like Gates selling Microsoft and giving everyone ridiculous raises a couple of days before he turned over the company. Wouldn't it be within thenew owner's rights to take back those raises? That's why I agree with negotiating in this instance. If Blanco had made the deal, then I would be with you. But she didn't, and got left with someone else's terrible deal. It is within her right to attempt to amend that mistake.
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Old 05-17-2005, 02:42 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by saintswhodi
The second part is that the state should honor the deal. Again, in principal, I agree. But if the deal was made in haste by a DIFFERENT administration, why isn't it in the new administration's right to attempt to make a deal that is more reasonable? Foster threw the house at Benson cause he knew he was getting out, and left the problem for someone else. That would be like Gates selling Microsoft and giving everyone ridiculous raises a couple of days before he turned over the company. Wouldn't it be within thenew owner's rights to take back those raises? That's why I agree with negotiating in this instance. If Blanco had made the deal, then I would be with you. But she didn't, and got left with someone else's terrible deal. It is within her right to attempt to amend that mistake.
Foster didn't approve the deal, he brought it forward. I agree it is within her right to renegotiate, I don't think anybody is knocking it. She wants a better deal, Benson doesn't want a worse deal, it's business and should be treated that way. Let's look at Microsoft since you mentioned them, If Gates was negotiating with the state on getting a large factory built somewhere in the state, do you think Blanco would be speaking to/of him like she does Benson? This is why we have our financial problems, we lose Fortune 500 companies because of the way we do business.

Whodat wrote
Blanco didn't leak the story. The Times Picayunne did.
That's funny!! So, the T/P had the story the whole time? You have to know the story before you "leak" it. The story was leaked by the Gov's office and you know it, everybody knows it. Dirty politics and propaganda. She is just mad because Tom didn't offer her hubby a ride on his yacht!
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Old 05-17-2005, 04:40 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by VooDoo
It's not hard to show Mr. Tom Benson in a negative light. When that's what it appear WhoDat's intentions were to begin with.

There's way more to this issue than WhoDat has discussed. And in my opinion he is way off base.
It's easy to make a statement like that when you provide absolutely no support at all.

I'm wrong? OK, wouldn't be the first time. Try proving that. You didn't provide any facts that tend to contradict mine. You didn't offer any analysis of the facts that I presented that suggest a different view. So, I say "prove it!"
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Old 05-17-2005, 04:50 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by WhoDat
Originally Posted by VooDoo
It's not hard to show Mr. Tom Benson in a negative light. When that's what it appear WhoDat's intentions were to begin with.

There's way more to this issue than WhoDat has discussed. And in my opinion he is way off base.
It's easy to make a statement like that when you provide absolutely no support at all.

I'm wrong? OK, wouldn't be the first time. Try proving that. You didn't provide any facts that tend to contradict mine. You didn't offer any analysis of the facts that I presented that suggest a different view. So, I say "prove it!"
Prove it? What .... that you're way off base. Okay, I'll accept that challenge.

I'll tell you what .... I'll do one better. Let me gather the "real" facts and I'll post them along with their sources. And I will not slant my opinion one way or the other.

There really is no right or wrong on this issue. It's all about which side of the fence you come down on, WhoDat. Obviously you have taken the side of Blanco. Which is pretty evident from your orginal post.

No one is on trial here, WhoDat. There are no clear-cut victims or villians here.

I'll be back soon with the real rundown on Benson vs. Blanco.
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:01 PM   #29
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WhoDat, first I must take my hat off to you for such a well written post. I do disagree with some of its content though. I am a DIEHARD New Orleans Saints fan living in Los Angeles. As a grammar school kid from Saint Frances Cabrini, and then a Brother Martin Crusader, I worked at Tulane Stadium and saw every Saints home game while selling soda, popcorn, peanuts, and eventually Programs. Here is what I think of the current scenario. Benson has a sweetheart of a deal already, courtesy of Gov. Foster, and the truth is, he does not have to do a DAMN thing ... just collect what he has already bargained for and won. While I do realize that making New Orleans pay according to the current deal would pis off some politicians because they would have less money to pad their pockets, the bottom line is that if Benson does nothing except stay, and continue collecting, he has time to complete the 2005 season and possibly see Bianco out of office and see what her succesor is willing to do, (remember, the deadline for getting the deal went out the window when the deal wasn't worked out in time to get N.O. a future Superbowl).

I do think the 1.2 Billion is total BS aimed at posturing for a better deal, but I do have a problem with the perception that L.A. cannot keep a team. First we have to agree WHO exactly you mean by L.A. If you mean the politicians and the lawyers, Maybe I agree, but the Politicians and the lawyers today are different than they were when the Rams and Raiders were in town, so all comparisons are off. Then comes the point of the L.A. Fans, and the people of L.A. The fans in L.A. are as powerless to keep a team there as are the New Orleans fans. The truth of the matter is, the fan in L.A. had little power in what happened to the Rams & Raiders. You can thank Georgia Frontiere and the ever effervescent Al Davis for being flighty, money hungry, and greedy. In case you forget history, the small incorporated city of Irwindale, 20 miles east of Los Angeles, learned an expensive lesson about dealing with Davis. The city gave the Raiders $10 million to show its good faith in 1988, but Davis took the money and left anyway. It turns out the deposit was non-refundable, and Irwindale never got a penny back. Politician's and lawyer's heads rolled back then, and I can guarantee you that the bad taste left in their mouths will not be soon forgotten.

The L.A. Rams fans were fanatical and as devoted as any I have seen in the NFL. I attended many Saints/Rams games and got to see the fanbase first hand for many years. If the Saints don't make it to the Los Angeles area, it will be because New Orleans politicians stepped up to the plate and realized what a gem they have in that Saints franchise. It really is all about money and timing, and the fans do not control that. Even though I live in L.A., I would hate to see the Saints leave New Orleans because I just think it would not be the same. There is a chemistry that is the Black and Gold and the Crescent City, and no one should ever try to change that, otherwise the curse will follow the Saints wherever they move to, and it will triple in severity.

So, as a fan, all I am going to do is enjoy what promises to be a great 2005 season, and see what transpires afterwards. I predict that the 2005 Saints WILL make the playoffs. I think the Defense you will see this year will be more like the last 4 games of last season than the beginning, barring injuries of course. Brown on the "O" line should improve the size of the holes Deuce has to run through, and we know how hard it is to bring Deuce down once he gets a full head of steam. A blossoming Zach Hilton, and an speedy Devery Henderson should make for some exciting targets for Brooks, or McPherson, (who I predict will see some playing time this year). McPherson will become another crowd favorite with his electric dazzling play making, very much like Doug Flutie was when he first came back into the NFL.

So you guys hold the fort down for me and keep the Crawfish boils and soft-shelled crab Po Boys (which I miss tremendously) flowing. I will see you this season.
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:13 PM   #30
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Welcome aboard NOSaints, nice post. I agree with some of it, disagree with some, but nice post.

One of my best friends is a Brother Martin Crusader. Matter of fact, I lived in Gentilly a couple blocks past the cemetary cross the street from Brother Martin, Warrington Dr. Right next to Dillard. I was a De La Salle Cavalier myself for 8th grade, made some bad decisions about which parent to live with, and finished at public school. Grammar School I went to Mater Dolorosa on Carrolton and Oak(it's closed now and has been for years) and St. Stephen's on Napoleon and Camp. I was just out in Diamond Bar, Cali a few months back for business. You familiar at all with Diamond Bar? Went to Medieval Times and on a tour of LA while I was there. Saw the Forum, Tar Pits, went to Rodeo Dr. It was fun. Glad to have you aboard.
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