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New Dolphin Jones unfazed by potshot

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; I agree with you...I just didn't understand haz puttin sucky on blast like that........I don't recall him rippin Ricky or Turley to the media like that... I also am hopeful for this season...moreso than the last 2........

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Old 06-12-2005, 08:34 AM   #21
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I agree with you...I just didn't understand haz puttin sucky on blast like that........I don't recall him rippin Ricky or Turley to the media like that...
I also am hopeful for this season...moreso than the last 2.....
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Old 06-12-2005, 09:55 AM   #22
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..first, I wouldn't say Tebucky ripped the organization...
When he left. he left... it was Haslett who drew first blood by making the comments he made about Jones... why Haslett continues to bad-mouth players, well... Tebucky responded to Haslett's comments...

..second, if he was always out of position or couldn't catch, I would like to ask Haslett if it really took him 2 FULL YEARS OF TEBUCKY STARTING AT SAFETY to figure this out, and if he figured it out on his own or did someone pointed it out to him... and if he figured it out sooner (or someone told him sooner) why did Tebucky continued to start?
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Old 06-12-2005, 11:26 AM   #23
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Now those are the important questions TR. Good call.

I have another question though. Do people on here seriously believe players drafted in college have the responsibility solely on themselves to get better? The head coach and position coach have no responsibility on developing them as players? Seriously? Then why are there position coaches and such if a player has the responsibility all on himself to grow? Seems like a bunch of salaries being paid for nothing. Seems to me all you would need is the HC, OC, and DC. Position coaches are really serving no purpose if that is the case cause players have to get it themselves, right? Seriously?
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Old 06-12-2005, 12:09 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by saintswhodi
? The head coach and position coach have no responsibility on developing them as players? Seriously? Then why are there position coaches and such if a player has the responsibility all on himself to grow? Seems like a bunch of salaries being paid for nothing. Seems to me all you would need is the HC, OC, and DC. Position coaches are really serving no purpose if that is the case cause players have to get it themselves, right? Seriously?
... funny you mention this..

..on another board I got into a similar discussion, but regarding the head coach only.
..here are few things I found out

It is not Haslett's responsibility to motivate players
It is not Haslett's responsibility to teach players
The offense is not Haslett's responsibility
The defense is not Haslett's responsibility
Haslett has no saying on who gets drafted
Haslett has no saying on FA signings

..exactly what does Haslett do?
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Old 06-12-2005, 12:43 PM   #25
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So why do we need coaches TR? Hell, why do we need veterans? Rookies are cheaper and should know everything they need to know already or whatever they need to learn they should simply teach themselves. The way the coach's role in player development is being dismissed, I wonder why they have them anyway? Couldn't a player be smart enough to make plays for the offense and defense? We are wasting a lot of money here.
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Old 06-12-2005, 01:34 PM   #26
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Haslett gets a bad rap on player development. Deuce McAllister has developed nicely. Unless you guys think players develop themselves. And I think saintswhodi will stand up for me here?

Charles Grant has developed nicely. Unless you think he developed into a great DE by himself.

Le Charles Bentley has developed into a probowl player. Did he do that by himself?

Joe Horn developed into a pro bowl recevier under Haslett. And the best receiver in Saints' history.

Should I keep going?
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Old 06-12-2005, 03:06 PM   #27
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saintswhodi you mad ean excellewnt point. i think i understated the importance of coaching to some extent. i also think though that players get better as they are in the league because of experience. somethings can't be taught. you have to experience them. but your point was excellent and you mad me rethink what i said. i was wrong.
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Old 06-12-2005, 08:51 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by nawlins
Haslett gets a bad rap on player development. Deuce McAllister has developed nicely. Unless you guys think players develop themselves. And I think saintswhodi will stand up for me here?

Charles Grant has developed nicely. Unless you think he developed into a great DE by himself.

Le Charles Bentley has developed into a probowl player. Did he do that by himself?

Joe Horn developed into a pro bowl recevier under Haslett. And the best receiver in Saints' history.

Should I keep going?
.


players like Grant, Bentley, Deuce, these players weren't "developed" by the Saints... no one is surprised these guys are good players.. they have been good since college...
Charles Grant is a very good DE, not a great one... he's very good at going to the QB, but he still lacks in run support... and honestly, you can't say he's being coached very well... he makes the same mistakes while playing the run every game...

.. you cannot say that LeCharles Bentley "has developed" into a good player. He was a good player when he got here...matter of fact I believe that LeCharles' college coach has more to do with LeCharles success as a player in the NFL than anyone in the Saints organization...

... and Deuce, well, Dulymus is Dulymus... what he does when healthy cannot be taught...

... Horn was already "developed" when he came here.. he just haven't been given a chance to show it..
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Old 06-12-2005, 09:14 PM   #29
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I agree with you to an extent TR, but I think "development" needs to be broken down into two areas. Development into a sound football player and development from a college football player to an NFL football player.

Those players mentioned were already sound football players, but don't you think the Saints had some role in their development into NFL players or did we just get lucky that they picked up on everything?

A-mac will need both types of development.

Tebucky Jones probably at some point got both but just can't tighten up his basic football skills.

It's hard to say with some players where the deficit lies. Is Grant's lack of run support poor developmental coaching (both types) or maybe he just isn't good at that. We have to remember that no matter how good coaching is, many players will find themselves at the end with deficits. I feel like in a lot of our players, there attitudes (or intellect for that matter) are hindering there dev more than the coaching....Boo may be a prime example here.

All in all, I think are major problems have come from poor attitudes surrounded by a lack of leadership in the past to correct that, poor intellect, and as far as the coaches more in the lines of poor game plan specifically it's inflexibility (not molding to game situations, our players' abilities).
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Old 06-13-2005, 09:23 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by saintfan
Because if you're trashing the coach(s) regularly these guys fall right in line with your tactics. Nevermind the circumstances. Filter out what fits and use it. Been going on here for years!

I subscribe to the "you're in the NFL and should have a clue about catching the ball, making tackles, keeping your personal life in order, and keeping your temper in check" theory, but some appear to think these things are the job(s) of the head coach.

You guys never cease to amaze me. I will not argue for a second that Tebucky Jones didn't have good reason to blast the organization. Of course he did. But does having good reason to snap back mean that what he is saying should be totally discounted? I mean, he's mad so he must be lying through his teeth, right? He is completely making things up that are totally untrue, huh? In my experience, people are most honest when they're mad...

I just don't get why having reason to say negative things translates into lying. In the past, when players complained openly about the coaches and staff while on the team, people on this board blasted them. Kyle Turley and Joe Horn are both good examples. Of course, people are quick to categorize Kyle Turley as an enraged lunatic... nevermind the fact that he complained AS PLAYER REP on behalf of the players on the team about the conditions of the training camp facilities... and nevermind the fact that two years later the team built a new training facility and moved camps there. His complaints were just the ramblings of a crazy person, right? He also said that AB was pampered by the coaching staff. Must be lying there too. And that Joe Horn, he's completely clueless right. He also outwardly complained about coaching staff decisions and AB... but that's not relevant.


You see, you can suggest that players have a reason to bad-mouth a team after they leave, and you'd have a valid point. But isn't it also valid to suggest that players on this team have good reason not to publicly air concerns and criticisms about the staff while on the team? Maybe players voice disapproval after they leave b/c it is the first time that they are able to - it becomes professionally accepatable at that point, and no longer jeopardizes their career or threatens their job security. You can look at the fact that a dozen or so players over the last 5 years have left and all said basically the same things about certain coaches and players and either a) realize that they have reason to be disgruntled but at least take note of the commonality of all the continuous complaints, or b) simply write them all off as disgruntled players who are lying apparently to further the "agenda" of a few fans and analysts. I'll take A, but then I guess I'm the agenda-mongerer, right SF?

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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