Passing Improvements...
 

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WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK???????

RE: Passing Improvements...
 

I'll agree that Pathon was overpaid. However, bringing in Hakim as a replacement just doesn't seem like much of an improvement to me. Isn't the article above saying that sure hands are the requirement for a slot receiver?

The only thing I'm 'sure' about with Hakim is that his hands are NOT 'sure'.

RE: Passing Improvements...
 

I think the Saints offense is going to be more productive but I don't know if that means the numbers will improve in the passing game. The o-line improvement will help the running game considerable and with that even more runs. More play action and quicker check offs. I don't know if our slot needs to get 80 passes a season, if he does than something went wrong... terribley wrong.

RE: Passing Improvements...
 

Basically, all this article does is bash Pathon. I agree on his being overpaid but not on what he brought to the team. I think he did the job they asked him to do and that he was actually pretty clutch. We had to let him go due to money, but don't take away from what he gave to us. I think at that spot, unless Henderson really steps up, we should be content with equal production.

RE: Passing Improvements...
 

This makes me wonder if he has ever seen a Saints game ...

Quarterbacks are taught to lead receivers into the open area with the ball . Brooks would be better suited with a circus staff for the receiving core . Midgets to catch those shoe lace passes and the tall guys to catch the air balls .

I wonder if those questioning Pathon , take into consideration how many times Brooks fixates on one receiver on any certain play .

RE: Passing Improvements...
 

In Junior High or High School they are taught to lead... but in Pros you have to throw where the only peron can possible catch the ball is your WR. You are taught to throw the ball to a spot on the field where the WR is suppose to end up there if he runs the right route.

RE: Passing Improvements...
 

Not all passes are timing route passes . Standard R-11 and L-1 routes are really not fixed position routes . Quarterbacks have to adjust all the time based upon bump coverage .The first option is to put the ball in a position to advance or lead the receiver in his route .Option two is to just get the player the ball in a position to make a catch and the third option is to put the ball in a position in which he might be able to make a play .

Only the DB coach teaches the quarterback to throw into the defense . :wink:

RE: Passing Improvements...
 

If you ever watch any of the many shows on TV that claim to be "analytical," then you've heard by now the things that the analysts claim really differentiates QBs is often manifested in where they "place the ball." Think about what the talking heads said about Warner when he was with the Rams, or what they say about Peyton now.

Great QBs understand the game such that on any given play against any given defense, they know which WR is most likely to be open, and even the point when he is most likely to come open. They often anticipate and "throw to a spot" b/c the WR hasn't broken yet, but they know when he does he will be open. The next issue is more physical than mental - and that's putting the ball in a place where the WR can not only catch it, but do something with it. Warner excelled in St. Louis at putting the ball 6 inches to a foot in front of his WR's leading shoulder - allowing his wideouts to catch balls in-stride and often leading them away from hits than into them.


If you believe what I just said, and there's no reason you shouldn't b/c if you've watched ESPN, FOX, CBS, HBO, etc you've probably heard the same thing, then two major concerns about AB should now be present.

The first is his ability to fully comprehend what the offensive coordinator is trying to do with a play. From there he must be able to read the defense and recognize which part of the play, or which variation of it, is most likely to work. Third, he has to read the defense as the play progresses without telegraphing his intentions, and then anticipate the WR's break. These are all cerebral issues, and I don't feel AB excels at any of them. I wonder about his ability to understand what the offensive strategy is. I've seen him lock on to WRs so I know he doesn't disguise plays well. Finally, he often has to see the the WR is open before he throws the ball. He doesn't seem to be able to anticipate a break very well.

The other issue is the physical part of it. We all know AB is athletic and has a cannon arm, but he lacks touch. What good does that cannon do for yo in squeezing balls into tight places, if they are uncatchable or require your WR to sellout and get creamed to catch them? Brooks rarely, IMO, delivers the ball on-target and in-stride. Most commonly his WRs are stopping, sliding, ducking-and-covering, skying, or diving to catch his passes - and often times they are stationary even before he throws the ball. This leads me to believe that even if AB had the mental components necessary, he would still lack the touch needed to execute accordingly. The guy has enough raw athleticism to be moderately successful in this league, but I don't see him having a QB Rating in the 90's all that often, and rarely, if ever, over 95. Most of the good to great QBs these days have ratings in the upper 90s to low 100s.

RE: Passing Improvements...
 

Does anyone miss the Bold feature but me ????

Who Dat you never told me you were watching the beer drinkers football anaysis , I love the Sean Salisbury analysis , he is rather repetitive and redundant I think he will be the future John Madden .

Consider the following WhoDat , " The Catch " 49ers game . Montana threw the ball to a position or a spot ??? " The Spot " being a single fixed location with the ending origin known , would have been called like this :

Yo Joe hit the fat dude 8 rows up and 15 seats over from the center isle , right between the eyes and hope Dwight Clark can catch it or at least the clock will stop .

OR

Joe throw the ball high and outside to Clark in the back of the end zone and if he misses it the clock will stop .

When the quarterback scrambles out of the pocket on a busted play and is signaling the receiver is he

a. Sending a new set of highly sophisticated coordinates to a fixed position spot .

b. Sending a delivery signal to ball position , like finger straight , get ready here comes the laser or finger down , hope you have a shovel cause here comes a turfie .

By the way , most quarterbacks have a pretty good idea of where the ball is going when they hit the line and read the defense . I know that is confusing when you are a Saints fan because Brooks cannot read defenses ( Direct quote Safety Cleveland Browns ).

RE: Passing Improvements...
 

What are you trying to say with that post 08? I'm not sure what your point is.

RE: Passing Improvements...
 

You did not answer the question WhoDat ......

RE: Passing Improvements...
 

I thought I was playing to much madden 2005

RE: Passing Improvements...
 

I'm confused 08. You're now trying to differentiate between a "spot" versus a "position?" Ultimately, they have essentially the same meaning to me, but I'll humor you because I can't wait to see where this is going...

By your definition, I take a "spot" to be some exactly point or coordinates in space and time. A "position" is a set of coordinates relative to the player - is that correct?

Given those definitions, Montana threw to a "position," which I take to be illustrated in your second example. Now what?

RE: Passing Improvements...
 

You say potato... I say tomato

RE: Passing Improvements...
 

Rough guess is that in a typical power west coast offense of today , 25 % of the passes are spot passes . The quarterback throws to a spot where the receiver is going to be and the route is timed based upon a clean break .

Thought on the Rams comment from earlier , have you taken into consideration the routes the receivers are running in St. Louis . The Rams offense dictates that receivers are never out of the play , they run longer routes and continue to hold the routes until the whistle .

RE: Passing Improvements...
 

Dude, 08, I'm missing your point here. Why not lay it out for me real simple-like?

I said I thought AB lacked ability in two key areas in which great QBs normally excel. The first is mental, and deals with reading a defense, anticipating a break, knowing which route will work best, etc. The second being totally physical and relating to his inability to throw a touch pass or put a ball in a spot where his WRs can do something with it. I've always thought that you agreed with that. So what are you trying to say here?

RE: Passing Improvements...
 

I am more anxious to see how Brooks reacts to a new system. I see at sometimes during the past couple of seasons it could have been the system...

When I watch Brooks play, what I see is someone "frantic" and I don't expect that to change.

He never appears comfortable on any play that is not a hand-off to DM. On almost every passing play, he appears pinicked even before the pressure becomes a problem. It appears to me that he fires most passes with much greater force than is necessary to make the play, and usually with almost no effort to "set" before he throws. It almost looks like he doesn't know what to expect from a play, even when he is the one calling it to the others, and has to try and "react" rather than "act". He looks jerky in his execution, which probably accounts for this reported accuracy in camp and his seeming inaccuracy in games.

At the speed of the NFL game, "reacting" almost always carries that 50-50 success/fail rate. I think Brooks' natural athleticism, coupled with the talent of his receiving corps and their foreknowlege of how the play is "supposed" to go - account for Brooks, in my opinion, inflated statistics. There are other factors (such as playing from behind, etc).

Most of the above is the mental part of the game, in my opinion. From what I see, it leads me to these possible conclusions:

1 - Brooks never understood the offense, or the offensive game plan.
2 - Brooks is not a quick thinker, who can predict on-field outcomes - even after all these years as the starter.

Nothing has convinced me our Saints will be any different as long as Brooks is our QB. Our coaching staff can attempt to compensate for this by simplifying the playbook and adopting a more power running game, but I don't think we will ever transition to a championship team with Brooks at the helm.

This is, of course, just my opinion based on what I see when I watch Brooks practice and play.