brooks? is he good?
 

makes bone head plays noone can argue that. then you look at his stats over the last few years ( um minus the fumbles the one year )since 2002 72 TD'S 39 INT'S. mcnabb 64 TD'S 25 INT'S. bulger 57 TD'S 42 INT'S. favre 89 TD'S 54 INT'S. vick 34TD'S 23 INT'S (HE WAS HURT THE ONE YEAR). hasslebeck 63 TD'S 40 INT'S. brady 79 TD'S 40 INT'S.
SOME OF THE OTHER GUYS LIKE VICK DIDN'T PLAY FULL SEASONS (I PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE PUT HIM IN HERE EITHER, LITTLE UNFAIR) AND I DIDN'T INCLUDE THEM. JAKE AND MCNAIR FOR INSTANCE. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT HIS NUMBERS GOD DAMN IF ARRON ISNT RIGHT THERE WITH SOME OF THE BEST IN OUR LEAGUE. I DIDN'T INCLUDE CULPEPPER OR MANNING BECAUSE THAT IS JUST OBVIOUS OR SHOULD BE.

MAN OUTSIDE OF HIS DUMB ASS MISTAKES AND INCONSISTENCY THE GUY HAS DOWN RIGHT GOOD NUMBERS. ARGUE BECAUSE I WOULDN'T MIND HEARING IT. MIND YOU THIS IS FROM A NON BROOKS SUPPORTER.

RE: brooks? is he good?
 

This says it all when you consider the timing of said mistakes and drive killing inconsintency.
I would rather have a QB who doesn't choke or rather doesn't put our team in an often insurmountable hole early in the game. Many QBs can have good stats if the team is forced into throwing the ball almost exclusively for 3 quarters. Opposing defenses have the luxury at that time of being "bend but don't break" players. Looks good on the stat sheet but doesen't win many football games.
I am not letting the D or Haz off of the hook here but this seems to be (yet another) AB thread. I am keeping the topic on AB as this is how the thread started.

I am sure that will change soon enough though.

Deja Vu all over again.

Unless this thread is ignored for the other two on Brooks, there is no way ANYONE argues about Brooks that supports him without bringing up the D and about 100 other excuses. Just remember, just like every other year, this is Brooks' year, or his last chance. :roll:

Man, I am sorry I started the Brooks crap this year. I drafted him on my fantasy football team this year and I really think he will be fine.

No worry Cher, he's a good QB. There's simply a contingent here that think he's the worst QB to put on a helmet no matter what happens. I'm starting to wonder what the real reason is that so many hate him.

Yes, he is a good QB.

If by the words "good QB" what is actually meant is inconsistent, dim-witted, hasn't stepped up in 4 years as a starter and is an ego-maniac, then I think we are all in agreement. Good luck with your fantasy league Cher. Hopefully they only take off points for lost fumbles and not simply putting the ball on the ground like a couple leagues I am in that take off for both, cause then you are in trouble. Unless, dare I say, THIS is the year he puts it all together. :roll:

Are you this pissy all the time? Or just when you post on football forums?
Take a valium.

Dude, if you have any more pot/kettle moments, you will start to rust.

Does the punchline of that joke start with the offense not scoring in 12 straight first quarters? And barely scoring in the first half of any game? Despite getting a top 10 number of turnovers from the D? But squandering it in three and outs?

Huh? Our defense was top 10 in takeaways. Check NFL.com. It's been posted here numerous times. And do you have a Brooks complex? I said the OFFENSE, not Brooks. Don't even get me started on his ineptitude.

And are you saying New England did not score an offensive point in the playoffs? Seriously? Well, they did. Or am I misreading and you are saying their defense did not allow an offensive point in the playoffs? Cause that isn't true either. Pittsburgh had 388 yards of total offense aginst NE's D in the AFC champ game with 3 TDs and 27 total points. Okay, i'll leave this one alone. Welcome to the site, and enjoy.

You're not the only one Danno.

Agreed.

SFIAH

BonB,

Thanks for pointing out the obvious to us rational Saints fans. The team has problems at multiple levels. We should be extremely happy what their level of dysfunction that they can pull out a 500 record.

Last year there were problems at QB. And the rushing game. And on the offensive line. And with the Tight Ends. And with receivers dropping balls. The Defensive Tackles and Linebackers in particular seemed overmatched. An old man and a camp casualty (Smith and Handbrick) handed he defense their collective behinds rushing the ball for Arizona. The coaching was been sometimes haphazard, sometimes predictable, and most times unsettling. There are problems everywhere on this team.

And yet they finished 8-8 with a 4 game winning streak and a chance to make the playoffs. And put those pesky Panthers out of the playoffs last year.

The offense needs to be more consistent. Brooks needs to make less mistakes. Receivers need to more consistently catch the ball. Deuce and the new right side of the offensive line needs to bring it. The defense needs a "Three and out!" mentality this year. 3rd down needs to be the winning down for the defense this season.

Brooks isn't the most pressing problem on this team. I'd be interested in seeing the stats of the QB who should have been brought in to replace him.

SFIAH

Or the Rams with Kurt Warner, or the Pats with Brady every other year. And the Rams made it back to the Superbowl but lost to the Pats. Ravens was an anomoly, as it hasn't happened since. And theBucs Superbowl year, Brad Johnson threw for over 3000 yards with 22 Tds and only 6 INTs, completing over 60% of his passes and a 92.9 passer rating, these last two stats higher than Brooks ever. And that was in only 13 games cause Rob Johnson was attempting to be the starter. Seems like he was a pretty good QB.

OK, I can no longer stay silent on this one. It is obvious what you are trying to say. Someone always tries to blame it on the race card.

You've got it the wrong way, however. AB does not have the type of personality that makes him a likeable person. He is egotistical and he has a knack for saying stupid things that tend to rile up the fans and probably his teammates, as well. His type of personality does not go well with mediocrity. It is more suited for someone that has won at least one superbowl. So, the question becomes not "Why do the bashers dislike him?", because, in my eyes the reasons are very apparent and have been discussed over and over on this board. The more appropriate question, IMHO, (and I'm being very sincere when I ask this) is WHY DO THE SUPPORTERS CONTINUE TO SUPPORT HIM EVEN THOUGH HE HAS DONE EVERYTHING IN HIS POWER TO ALIENATE EVERYONE?

You supporters answer that question and you will see the light more clearly.

Just one question. Why does a question like, "is Brooks a good QB" always have to immediately turn issues of blame? To me that signals either a lack of understanding or the inability to make a good argument. No one asked who is at fault for the Saints short-comings the last few years. If a person had asked that question, the answer would have to start with Loomis, Haslett, and Venturi, before you got to the entire defense, and then, maybe you could look at smaller units (e.g. the LBs or DTs), and then individual players. But that wasn't the question that was asked. The question that was asked is: Is Aaron Brooks a good QB?

This question has been posed on this board about a billion times, and to date, the answer hasn't changed. NO. Aaron Brooks is a talented but inconsistent QB who has not lived up to his potential yet. I don't see how you can argue otherwise.

AB is not the great or even particularly good QB some make him out to be. Nor is he the "reason" that the Saints miss the playoffs. He puts up good stats in meaningless categories. He shows flashes of brilliance and flashes of the 1979 Tampa Bay Bucs Blooper tape. He throws a turf rocket and follows it up with a perfect strike. All in all it averages out. The guy is average. Look at ALL of his numbers and how they rank as compared to other QBs in the league, and you'll see that if you take the average, Brooks ends up the in the 15th or 16th spot pretty much all the time.

But turning the argument to one that debates whether AB caused the Saints not to make the playoffs is misguided. Sure, you could argue that AB is about as inconsistent as they come and that inconsistency from a "team leader" contributes to the enterprise-wide problem with playing up to potential.... but that's minor. The Saints can get to the playoffs and win with AB. But unless his play changes for the better and he becomes more consistent, the Saints will get to the playoffs despite AB, and not because of him. That said, he could very well have a Drew Brees year... it's just that we've all expected that for a while now. I guess we'll see.

Seems to me a lot of people want to blame Brooks for everything but the same people won't give him credit for anything good that happens to the team.

I read so much about Brooks and the debate that swirls around him -- and I will say what I always say -- he is not the biggest problem the saints have right now -- that said -- he is not the QB he thinks he is -- he is as inconsistent as almost any 4 year starter in the league --

But in answer to your statement -- one of the biggest reasons you see this is because he never takes the blame himself -- he is never personally responsible -- he never has a bad game -- in his mind its always someone elses fault -- you look at other QBs and they always say -- I let the team down today -- I played horribly -- ever hear AB say that -- know you hear him say I am a great QB on an average team -=- Maybe if he took a little more personal responsibility he would catch a little slack here and there

I think Brooks catches a lot of crap for a variety of reasons. One big one though, IMO, is that he epitomizes everything wrong with the TEAM. Great physical talent, boneheaded and mind boggling play, underacheiving with flashes of brilliance, inconsistent, self-proclaimed greatness but never more than average, and generally a lackadasical attitude towards winning (see smiling discussion). Brooks is the poster boy for the Same Old Saints.

That said, I don't think the arguments in his favor are particularly convincing.

1. He's maybe the best Saints QB ever! Wow. Name a Pro Bowl Saints QB. That's not saying much. Further, the statement isn't even true. Hebert and Everett both have nearly identical numbers at their peaks (Everett's tend to actually be a little bit better), and the Archie comparison is really not even worth discussing.

2. It's the defense's fault! Maybe. I happen to think it's as much, if not more, the coaches' fault than the defense... but what does that have to do with Brooks? His inconsistent play didn't cause the Saints to miss the playoffs, but it was undoubtedly a contributing factor. Moreover, the question isn't whether Brooks is the ONLY thing holding the Saints back, but rather whether the Saints could upgrade the position. I think that they clearly could.

3. He throws for all these yards and stuff! But it takes him 540 attempts to do what it takes Culpepper 400 attempts to do. That's called efficiency, and AB doesn't have any. Stats mean nothing unless taken in context. Compare the important stats that tell you if a QB is doing the little things right and you'll see AB is not.

4. Some people just want to blame AB no matter what. Translation: I have no other arguments. AB hasn't proven it on the field, so what can I say?

Archie was a pro bowl QB. Twince as a matter of fact -- once the starter -- that was when we sent 5 players to the Hawaii -- Archie, Chuck "Cocaine Muncie", Wes Chandler, the tight end and a defensive player --

As for comparing Brooks to him -- different era -- would you try to compare Peyton and Unitas -- Favre and Bart Starr -- not apples and oranges -- switch Brooks and Mannings years and see what happens -- but that is not my point here --

My point is that the only thing that really matters is whether you make the playoffs -- To date our TEAM has not been consistent enough to do so -- I personally do not like AB because of his ego and lack of passion/heart but that is totally my opinion -- If he plays with passion and takes responsibility of his own play as well as teh team's I will embrace him with no hard feelings -- If he plays like he has the last 3 years I will say bye bye you don't deserve the money you are going to cost us next year

He does have the merit of being a known commodity, whether or not he's any good.

a good mesuring stick is to compare Manning to his peers then and Brooks to his peers now to see how they rank.

-Stat wise (finishing in the top ten) I rank Brooks and Manning tied for first.
-reg. season wins... Bobby Hebert
-Playoff victories... Brooks.

That's a bad idea if you're a Brooks fan, unless all you want to look at are yards and TDs. Everett's numbers as a Saint were better straight up than Brooks' and that was 10 years ago. Hebert's best years were pretty close to Brooks' numbers now and that's 15 years ago. Archie is the only Saints Pro Bowler at QB so you know his are better.

no your wrong... look at the top 10 finishes in all those categoires and you'll see Brooks and Manning are tied with top ten finishes against there peers while wearing a Saints uniform.

So you're seriously arguing that Aaron Brooks is as good a QB as Archie Manning was. Seriously?

Archie Manning played with a minor league team surrounding him and finished in the top 10 ever?!?! That's amazing. AB has had one of the most talented offenses in the game for years. Whatever, I'm not even having this conversation. You go ahead and believe AB is a better QB than Archie was if you want. I think Joey Harrington is better than Joe Montana... ooh, maybe Jeff George is better now than Unitas was too!

No I am saying statisically they are tied amoungst there peers as of now over the long haul. I love Manning and he is my childhood hero growing up, that aside. I am saying Manning and Brooks are the two best QB's this team has ever had while wearing a Saints uniform. Brooks may very well be the best with another top 10 finish edging out Manning. For those who say winning then its Brooks for a play off win or Hebert for better winning percentage during reg. season.

That playoff team was already rolling when Brooks took over and u know it. Brooks was a benefactor of Blake's work.

Enough of this stats stuff. It's about pure honest opinion. If something thinks AB is in the same class as Manning than your evaluation skills are questionable to say the least. He may very well be the second best Saints QB ever, but again what kind of honor is that? Like WhoDat said, he has been average. He's somewhere in the middle of where all of the supporters and bashers are putting him.

I just think people give too much credit and too much blame for QB's....no QB in the NFL throws perfect passes except Peyton Manning....most QB's benefit from great receivers...I am tired of people using Brett Farves name...he throws more interceptions than most QB's...what makes him great...please 2 TD's per 4 INTs...what makes Big Ben so great....100 yards passing...1 TD 2 ints....come on some QB's put big stats on weak teams and weak stats on strong teams....the QB is like a kicker....don't blow it....Our game plan makes AB look bad....Run on 1st, run on second, weak screen 1 receiver route.....or throw 1st, throw 2nd, draw on third..no imagination...no game plans.....oh the saints D is bad....well you have corners who specialize in Man, but you run zone....your DLINE is a pass rushing line, but you cover gaps on the line....your linebackers are young and fast..oooohhh don't blitz...have them do pass coverage.....its the team not being driven properly...stop trying to turn brooks into Peyton and let him be Culpepper....let horn be moss and let them have structured fun...

AB has Horn -- most people put him in a great receiver category -- but I have a slight disagreement with the too much credit and blame to the QBS. The quarterback has his hands on the ball every play (except for a trick play here or there). He is responsible for reading the defensive alignment and making changes at the line -- for reading defenses and selecting the open receiver -- he has the most opportunity to change a game either positively or negatively -- All in all he should shoulder a large part of the blame as well as receive the most credit


[quote = "trimolo"] stop trying to turn brooks into Peyton and let him be Culpepper....let horn be moss and let them have structured fun...[/quote]

Not sure I would put AB in Culpepper's category either -- how about let Brooks be someone else

I don't know....it's just frustrating to lose...being a saints fan is harder than finding good employment in new orleans....I want a winner....noone should be above scrutiny...QB, Coach, Owner, Fans, Vendors..someone should be accountable.......noone is above reproach.....my favorite Saint is Joe Horn....he produces....and could produce more....everyone can do more....more points scores by us, less on us.....more victories.....I agree with everyone...but I just don't like QB's getting so much credit...for victories.... :oops:

Boy they have a lot of Brooks haters here!!!

8)

I'm not sure who put brook's in culpepper or manning's category. if you are saying this because of my original post i think i said in there that i didn't include culpepper or manning's stats because it was obvious. it was obvious their numbers would be much higher. so i would hope that those two statements would not at all be directed to me.