Rashard Mendenhall is the stupidest SOB alive

saintfan · 05-03-2011, 02:20 PM

This guy is a supreme tool. He may find it hard to believe a topped off passenger jet can't bring down a building. Conversely, I find it difficult to believe he has the understanding of physics required to make such a statement either way.

hitta · 05-03-2011, 06:56 PM

I'm not typing this in an attempt to piss people off or whatever. I respect the troops for what they do.

The thing that most people don't realize is the sheer amount of people killed by our military incursion. I'm not trying to disrespect the people that died in 9/11, but in the whole scheme and picture of everything we've done 9/11 to other countries 100s of times over. In Iraq we've killed anywhere between a 120,000 civilians(the documented number estimated on the bodies found) all the way to 1 million civilians(it is probably somewhere inbetween). These people are just footnotes now. You never hear anything about them, you only hear about our causalities.

We've been in and out of the middle east for the last 30 years: Lebanon, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia.... constantly getting involved in things that did not concern us. The truth is, we were attacked because we are incapable of minding our own business. There is no way we can continue to have the foreign policy that we've had for the last half century and expect for everyone to just ignore us.

saintfan · 05-03-2011, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by hitta

I'm not typing this in an attempt to piss people off or whatever. I respect the troops for what they do.

The thing that most people don't realize is the sheer amount of people killed by our military incursion. I'm not trying to disrespect the people that died in 9/11, but in the whole scheme and picture of everything we've done 9/11 to other countries 100s of times over. In Iraq we've killed anywhere between a 120,000 civilians(the documented number estimated on the bodies found) all the way to 1 million civilians(it is probably somewhere inbetween). These people are just footnotes now. You never hear anything about them, you only hear about our causalities.

We've been in and out of the middle east for the last 30 years: Lebanon, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia.... constantly getting involved in things that did not concern us. The truth is, we were attacked because we are incapable of minding our own business. There is no way we can continue to have the foreign policy that we've had for the last half century and expect for everyone to just ignore us.

I apologize to the rest of the board, but I just can't help it. You may not 'want' to piss people off with that crap, but you just pissed me off. I have friends and relatives who served, and son you don't have the first idea about that crap spewing from your mouth...

North of 100k and likely south of 200k is the civilian body count you're looking for - where in the hell did you get 1 million? This is due, in no small part, to the enemy's use of civilian buildings such as schools and hospitals and neighborhoods as a place to wage war against us.

There has NEVER BEEN AN ARMY that has gone as far out of it's way as ours has over the last 10 years to avoid civilian casualties. YOU try fighting an enemy that refuses to wear a uniform and purposefully mixes himself with the general population as a method of defense.

These 'innocents' you speak of provide for the bastards that kill our men and women, and breed more of them every day. This is not hate-speak on my part, and I do not wish death on the truly innocent, but you don't know the innocent from the guilty any more than I do.

You may think we are there because we can't mind 'our own business', and I can assure you this statement is as telling as it can be with respect to your likely lack of a full understanding of their history as it relates to ours.

The reason we're involved is because it DOES concern us. Where do you get the 'most people don't realize' numbers? Anybody with have a heart 'realizes' that civilians are being killing. Those same people understand why. Perhaps you are the one who doesn't realize something?

War sucks. People die. I have no doubt we're rather kill the 'soldiers' than we would innocent civilians. Perhaps you have some great idea that you can educate the most compassionate army ever to exist on how to implement?

If all you've got is 'we should mind our own business', well, my friend, you should go back about a hundred years. That'd be a good place to start your learning on what we're doing in the middle east and why.

As for me, I think we're doing it all wrong. I would save AMERICAN lives by laying waste to the whole damn place. In the end, it is ONLY AMERICAN interests and AMERICAN lives that I worry about when I go to sleep at night. I don't have time to spend worrying about those, innocent as they may be, who fail to control themselves, their people, their sons and their daughters, and their leaders.

saintfan · 05-03-2011, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by strato

All the more reason SF..for us to get the hell out of there...take care of our own...

I want us home Strato - more now than ever, because I believe we're not there to outright win it. We're far too worried about the the opinion that we should be compassionate. Screw compassion. Kill them all if you have to, but DO IT and come home.

Any compassion for an enemy who hides and is hidden by its civilian population, and anyone who'd attack our troops for doing the best they can under those immoral conditions can **** my ****.

GeauxForMore · 05-03-2011, 07:40 PM

I'm very conflicted. This verse pops up in my head all the time since we go that *******.

“Do not rejoice when your enemy falls and do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles; or the Lord will see and be displeased and turn His anger away from him.” Proverbs 24:17-18

As a American im soooooooooooooo happy we got the ******* and he didnt even see it coming. I love it. Are troops are amazing. But as a christian I know I shouldn't rejoice in someone death. Does anybody else feel this way?

saintfan · 05-03-2011, 08:07 PM

Well, without eating up a hard drive in discussion, oil is primary I don't disagree, but it's about more than oil. The United States manipulates assets and interests all over the world in its own best interests - every country with the ability to do it does it and has done it since there were people smart enough to form governments. Blame the speculators for the price of oil, but blame the other parties involved as well, and there are plenty of them, the vast majority of which wears towels on their heads...not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm just establishing the point.

I don't believe we can just come home any more than I believe we'll stop trying to win a war by dancing, as some have succeeded in making us do. Anybody who believed Obama when he said he'd end the war doesn't know a damn thing about it - it being war and politics. Obama knew then and he knows now. He was trying to get elected, and all those fools that he convinced of all that crap are pissed off at him. He's not the idiot. The people who bought that crap are the idiots. They were largely young people with ideals and a vision of the world that the world is not yet capable of. Obama, savvy politician that he is, played to this crowd, only maybe he underestimated their ability to understand the game. I don't blame him for playing politics, because that's what you have to do to get elected, but he should have seen the backlash coming. I don't know. Maybe he did. Anyway...

You know, Harry Truman sat in the white house and said something like, "you know, we will win a campaign in Japan, but it might take a year or two, and lots of our boys will die...OR, I can give the order to lay waste to their cities one at a time until they capitulate." It was not a decision that came as easily as some may imagine. He stressed over it - the killing of so many civilians, but in the end he weighed the lives of OUR boys more heavily than theirs. So he wiped out one city and then another, and it worked as we are all aware. Just a little man from Missouri, right? Had the weight of the world on his shoulders and made the call to do what needed to be done. How many lives did he save...or let me be more specific...how many AMERICAN lives did he save, because, tragic as it may be, the enemy just rates a bit lower for me for some strange reason. Then again, I suppose you have to view the enemy as, well, the enemy, before any of this makes any sense, and maybe that's why I get so frustrated at people who speak this way. They are sympathetic to the enemy. They have dain brammage...only THEY got that way through some...oh hell I don't know, but it wasn't a grenade or a road-side bomb that made THEM ignorant.

Of course I recognize the dynamics of why we don't just kill them all, but I'm not going to sit silent whilst someone who clearly lacks a complete or even rudimentary understanding of the history involved rags on our men and women or even our government for civilian deaths when we've done everything humanly possible and far more than we should EVER have been asked to do and far more than anyone has ever done in the history of history, AT OUR OWN PERIL, to save the lives of the people this ass clown probably believes are righteous in their ignorant hatred for and of the people trying at great personal expense to HELP them.

Let this little **** sucker talk to my daddy Strato, or yours, about an enemy who hides among their own civilians, about protecting the lives of the 'innocent civilian' while someone is trying to put a bullet in your skull. This little man can sit there at his keyboard and type ignorant things in his rightful indignation because he doesn't have a single effing clue. I know it and you know it and I'm not sure why right-thinking (as in correct, not political) people don't take these kinds of thinkers to task. They sure as hell deserve it.

Now, Mr "we're killing a million of their nice civilian people", you have this conversation with a Marine little man. I promise you aren't man enough to stand there in front of a man who spent time in a place like fallujah and spew this ignorant crap. And I'm no Marine, but you'd be wise to keep it to yourself in my presence too.

saintfan · 05-03-2011, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by GeauxForMore

I'm very conflicted. This verse pops up in my head all the time since we go that *******.

“Do not rejoice when your enemy falls and do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles; or the Lord will see and be displeased and turn His anger away from him.” Proverbs 24:17-18

As a American im soooooooooooooo happy we got the ******* and he didnt even see it coming. I love it. Are troops are amazing. But as a christian I know I shouldn't rejoice in someone death. Does anybody else feel this way?

I feel precisely this way. I smiled when I heard the news, and I felt like crying but didn't - not for the loss of Bin Laden's life, but for all the lives HIS life cost us. It is tragic, however we did not make it so. Any history of God in any culture will reveal one thing about God - he ain't afraid of a fight, and he fights to win. Believe 'dat.

SmashMouth · 05-03-2011, 08:30 PM

hitta · 05-03-2011, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

I apologize to the rest of the board, but I just can't help it. You may not 'want' to piss people off with that crap, but you just pissed me off. I have friends and relatives who served, and son you don't have the first idea about that crap spewing from your mouth...

North of 100k and likely south of 200k is the civilian body count you're looking for - where in the hell did you get 1 million? This is due, in no small part, to the enemy's use of civilian buildings such as schools and hospitals and neighborhoods as a place to wage war against us.

There has NEVER BEEN AN ARMY that has gone as far out of it's way as ours has over the last 10 years to avoid civilian casualties. YOU try fighting an enemy that refuses to wear a uniform and purposefully mixes himself with the general population as a method of defense.

These 'innocents' you speak of provide for the bastards that kill our men and women, and breed more of them every day. This is not hate-speak on my part, and I do not wish death on the truly innocent, but you don't know the innocent from the guilty any more than I do.

You may think we are there because we can't mind 'our own business', and I can assure you this statement is as telling as it can be with respect to your likely lack of a full understanding of their history as it relates to ours.

The reason we're involved is because it DOES concern us. Where do you get the 'most people don't realize' numbers? Anybody with have a heart 'realizes' that civilians are being killing. Those same people understand why. Perhaps you are the one who doesn't realize something?

War sucks. People die. I have no doubt we're rather kill the 'soldiers' than we would innocent civilians. Perhaps you have some great idea that you can educate the most compassionate army ever to exist on how to implement?

If all you've got is 'we should mind our own business', well, my friend, you should go back about a hundred years. That'd be a good place to start your learning on what we're doing in the middle east and why.

As for me, I think we're doing it all wrong. I would save AMERICAN lives by laying waste to the whole damn place. In the end, it is ONLY AMERICAN interests and AMERICAN lives that I worry about when I go to sleep at night. I don't have time to spend worrying about those, innocent as they may be, who fail to control themselves, their people, their sons and their daughters, and their leaders.

What makes an American life more valuable than an Iraqi life? Lay waste to the whole place, seriously? We called the mission "Operation: Iraqi Freedom" for a reason. I don't think it was to kill everyone there. You'd think when the operation is called that, you'd have more people would have respect for the people that they are actually supposed to be rescuing.

What ends up happening is we end up in these conflicts like this; people get pissed off that we are involved in these sort of conflicts with them(family deaths, friends deaths), they all unify and end up attacking us through some sort of shock attack. It is basically a perpetual cycle that continues to happen because we keep getting involved in things that we shouldn't get involved in. War is ugly, which is all the more reason to not get involved in it unless we absolutely have to. What I am saying really isn't as much a knock on the soldiers as it is a knock on the people telling the soldiers what to do. The soldiers just try to do whatever they can to help, and they should be commended for that; and they may very well try to avoid casualties more than any other army in existence. The entire body of work, going into other countries/territories causes a lot of meaningless destruction that ends up coming back to bite us in the ass and tends to cause more problems than it fixes.

About the history of the middle east, our involvement in the Middle East has always revolved around 1 of 3 things. Oil, giving aid to Israel, or trying to destabilize some effort by the Soviet Union. I'm not really sure what other sort of history besides that is going to explain to me why we have consistently occupied the region.

About the 1 million number, the Opinion Research Business Survey made that estimate. Most 100-200k body counts only estimate the amount of bodies actually found. Several other surveys have it up in the 400k to 1000k range.

saintfan · 05-04-2011, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by hitta

What makes an American life more valuable than an Iraqi life? Lay waste to the whole place, seriously? We called the mission "Operation: Iraqi Freedom" for a reason. I don't think it was to kill everyone there. You'd think when the operation is called that, you'd have more people would have respect for the people that they are actually supposed to be rescuing.

What ends up happening is we end up in these conflicts like this; people get pissed off that we are involved in these sort of conflicts with them(family deaths, friends deaths), they all unify and end up attacking us through some sort of shock attack. It is basically a perpetual cycle that continues to happen because we keep getting involved in things that we shouldn't get involved in. War is ugly, which is all the more reason to not get involved in it unless we absolutely have to. What I am saying really isn't as much a knock on the soldiers as it is a knock on the people telling the soldiers what to do. The soldiers just try to do whatever they can to help, and they should be commended for that; and they may very well try to avoid casualties more than any other army in existence. The entire body of work, going into other countries/territories causes a lot of meaningless destruction that ends up coming back to bite us in the ass and tends to cause more problems than it fixes.

About the history of the middle east, our involvement in the Middle East has always revolved around 1 of 3 things. Oil, giving aid to Israel, or trying to destabilize some effort by the Soviet Union. I'm not really sure what other sort of history besides that is going to explain to me why we have consistently occupied the region.

About the 1 million number, the Opinion Research Business Survey made that estimate. Most 100-200k body counts only estimate the amount of bodies actually found. Several other surveys have it up in the 400k to 1000k range.

I like to remind people who think this way that we ourselves would be speaking with heavy ****ney accents through bad teeth had the French 'minded their own business'. Of course they took sides, far before there was any world economy too by the way. How many lives might we have saved (speaking in civilian terms) had we ourselves NOT minded our own business while Hitler ran roughshod all across Europe? There is no nation in the world with any prominence that minds its own business as you suggest. It is ludicrous to suggest it. It is narrow minded and agenda-based and displays a complete lack of understanding of how the world works. It is a world economy, and while you may not like it the fact remains. Some oft and easily offended people have tantamount power over the fates of economies across the globe, and people like you think we should just let them waiver on a whim. The middle east is a deep rabbit hole, and we have certainly not 'consistently occupied' that region. There have been plenty of post WWII issues in that part of the world, based on decisions that were NOT unilaterally made by the United States, although the United States supports and leads the effort to enforce many of them. How old are you anyway?

You seem fairly confident or at least content to place the burden for loss of civilian life squarely on the shoulders of the United States Military. And by the way, there is plenty of respect for the people we are 'rescuing', however I don't think you are very well up to speed on how these civilians end up dead. I say this because you are far too eager to place the blame on America.

I find it interesting that you slam this loss of life while praising our soldiers. It is convenient to say that, but it is double-speak. You blame the government and yet you praise the men and women carrying out its orders. I don't believe you could have less of a clue if you tried real hard. I think you have an anti-war agenda and I think it causes you to say and to assume ignorant crap. But that's just what I think. Based on how you appear to feel, shouldn't every man and woman serving in the United States Military throw down their weapons and refuse to fight, and since you seem so upset about it all, why isn't THAT your true agenda...or is it?

At any rate, you and I can agree to disagree, and believe me we do - my intent is not to attack you personally, however any...ANY suggestion or insinuation that the United States Military takes the loss of civilian life now or ever lightly really infuriates me. You think you're so much more enlightened because YOU recognize this while the rest of us just blow it off. Hell man, the whole battle plan (erroneously, in my option, as I have suggested ) revolves around limiting loss of life and all out destruction. But just one more thing, if I may: Sans oil and the Soviet Union (that would be the former, but I digress), do you rekon we could successfully take our ball and go home and be left in peace? You know as well as I the answer is no, unless you are even more blinded than I think you are. Assuming you agree with me, then, minus the tinkering in world affairs in our own best interests, how would YOU handle the situation?

And finally, to answer your question as to what makes an American life more valuable than an Iraqi one: That fact that it is an AMERICAN one should be enough. I am saddened to think that this country is full of people who disagree. This is not a display of hatred for any people any where, the loss of life at all is tragic, but at the end of the day, I value our boys more than theirs. I do hope that answers your question.

05-03-2011, 06:56 PM	#12
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,324	I'm not typing this in an attempt to piss people off or whatever. I respect the troops for what they do. The thing that most people don't realize is the sheer amount of people killed by our military incursion. I'm not trying to disrespect the people that died in 9/11, but in the whole scheme and picture of everything we've done 9/11 to other countries 100s of times over. In Iraq we've killed anywhere between a 120,000 civilians(the documented number estimated on the bodies found) all the way to 1 million civilians(it is probably somewhere inbetween). These people are just footnotes now. You never hear anything about them, you only hear about our causalities. We've been in and out of the middle east for the last 30 years: Lebanon, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia.... constantly getting involved in things that did not concern us. The truth is, we were attacked because we are incapable of minding our own business. There is no way we can continue to have the foreign policy that we've had for the last half century and expect for everyone to just ignore us. strato likes this.
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,324

05-03-2011, 07:17 PM	#13
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by hitta I'm not typing this in an attempt to piss people off or whatever. I respect the troops for what they do. The thing that most people don't realize is the sheer amount of people killed by our military incursion. I'm not trying to disrespect the people that died in 9/11, but in the whole scheme and picture of everything we've done 9/11 to other countries 100s of times over. In Iraq we've killed anywhere between a 120,000 civilians(the documented number estimated on the bodies found) all the way to 1 million civilians(it is probably somewhere inbetween). These people are just footnotes now. You never hear anything about them, you only hear about our causalities. We've been in and out of the middle east for the last 30 years: Lebanon, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia.... constantly getting involved in things that did not concern us. The truth is, we were attacked because we are incapable of minding our own business. There is no way we can continue to have the foreign policy that we've had for the last half century and expect for everyone to just ignore us. I apologize to the rest of the board, but I just can't help it. You may not 'want' to piss people off with that crap, but you just pissed me off. I have friends and relatives who served, and son you don't have the first idea about that crap spewing from your mouth... North of 100k and likely south of 200k is the civilian body count you're looking for - where in the hell did you get 1 million? This is due, in no small part, to the enemy's use of civilian buildings such as schools and hospitals and neighborhoods as a place to wage war against us. There has NEVER BEEN AN ARMY that has gone as far out of it's way as ours has over the last 10 years to avoid civilian casualties. YOU try fighting an enemy that refuses to wear a uniform and purposefully mixes himself with the general population as a method of defense. These 'innocents' you speak of provide for the bastards that kill our men and women, and breed more of them every day. This is not hate-speak on my part, and I do not wish death on the truly innocent, but you don't know the innocent from the guilty any more than I do. You may think we are there because we can't mind 'our own business', and I can assure you this statement is as telling as it can be with respect to your likely lack of a full understanding of their history as it relates to ours. The reason we're involved is because it DOES concern us. Where do you get the 'most people don't realize' numbers? Anybody with have a heart 'realizes' that civilians are being killing. Those same people understand why. Perhaps you are the one who doesn't realize something? War sucks. People die. I have no doubt we're rather kill the 'soldiers' than we would innocent civilians. Perhaps you have some great idea that you can educate the most compassionate army ever to exist on how to implement? If all you've got is 'we should mind our own business', well, my friend, you should go back about a hundred years. That'd be a good place to start your learning on what we're doing in the middle east and why. As for me, I think we're doing it all wrong. I would save AMERICAN lives by laying waste to the whole damn place. In the end, it is ONLY AMERICAN interests and AMERICAN lives that I worry about when I go to sleep at night. I don't have time to spend worrying about those, innocent as they may be, who fail to control themselves, their people, their sons and their daughters, and their leaders.
	C'mon Man... Last edited by saintfan; 05-03-2011 at 07:25 PM..

05-03-2011, 07:27 PM	#14
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by strato All the more reason SF..for us to get the hell out of there...take care of our own... I want us home Strato - more now than ever, because I believe we're not there to outright win it. We're far too worried about the the opinion that we should be compassionate. Screw compassion. Kill them all if you have to, but DO IT and come home. Any compassion for an enemy who hides and is hidden by its civilian population, and anyone who'd attack our troops for doing the best they can under those immoral conditions can ** my **.

05-03-2011, 08:07 PM	#16
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Well, without eating up a hard drive in discussion, oil is primary I don't disagree, but it's about more than oil. The United States manipulates assets and interests all over the world in its own best interests - every country with the ability to do it does it and has done it since there were people smart enough to form governments. Blame the speculators for the price of oil, but blame the other parties involved as well, and there are plenty of them, the vast majority of which wears towels on their heads...not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm just establishing the point. I don't believe we can just come home any more than I believe we'll stop trying to win a war by dancing, as some have succeeded in making us do. Anybody who believed Obama when he said he'd end the war doesn't know a damn thing about it - it being war and politics. Obama knew then and he knows now. He was trying to get elected, and all those fools that he convinced of all that crap are pissed off at him. He's not the idiot. The people who bought that crap are the idiots. They were largely young people with ideals and a vision of the world that the world is not yet capable of. Obama, savvy politician that he is, played to this crowd, only maybe he underestimated their ability to understand the game. I don't blame him for playing politics, because that's what you have to do to get elected, but he should have seen the backlash coming. I don't know. Maybe he did. Anyway... You know, Harry Truman sat in the white house and said something like, "you know, we will win a campaign in Japan, but it might take a year or two, and lots of our boys will die...OR, I can give the order to lay waste to their cities one at a time until they capitulate." It was not a decision that came as easily as some may imagine. He stressed over it - the killing of so many civilians, but in the end he weighed the lives of OUR boys more heavily than theirs. So he wiped out one city and then another, and it worked as we are all aware. Just a little man from Missouri, right? Had the weight of the world on his shoulders and made the call to do what needed to be done. How many lives did he save...or let me be more specific...how many AMERICAN lives did he save, because, tragic as it may be, the enemy just rates a bit lower for me for some strange reason. Then again, I suppose you have to view the enemy as, well, the enemy, before any of this makes any sense, and maybe that's why I get so frustrated at people who speak this way. They are sympathetic to the enemy. They have dain brammage...only THEY got that way through some...oh hell I don't know, but it wasn't a grenade or a road-side bomb that made THEM ignorant. Of course I recognize the dynamics of why we don't just kill them all, but I'm not going to sit silent whilst someone who clearly lacks a complete or even rudimentary understanding of the history involved rags on our men and women or even our government for civilian deaths when we've done everything humanly possible and far more than we should EVER have been asked to do and far more than anyone has ever done in the history of history, AT OUR OWN PERIL, to save the lives of the people this ass clown probably believes are righteous in their ignorant hatred for and of the people trying at great personal expense to HELP them. Let this little **** sucker talk to my daddy Strato, or yours, about an enemy who hides among their own civilians, about protecting the lives of the 'innocent civilian' while someone is trying to put a bullet in your skull. This little man can sit there at his keyboard and type ignorant things in his rightful indignation because he doesn't have a single effing clue. I know it and you know it and I'm not sure why right-thinking (as in correct, not political) people don't take these kinds of thinkers to task. They sure as hell deserve it. Now, Mr "we're killing a million of their nice civilian people", you have this conversation with a Marine little man. I promise you aren't man enough to stand there in front of a man who spent time in a place like fallujah and spew this ignorant crap. And I'm no Marine, but you'd be wise to keep it to yourself in my presence too.
	C'mon Man... Last edited by saintfan; 05-03-2011 at 08:19 PM..

05-03-2011, 08:09 PM	#17
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by GeauxForMore I'm very conflicted. This verse pops up in my head all the time since we go that *****. “Do not rejoice when your enemy falls and do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles; or the Lord will see and be displeased and turn His anger away from him.” Proverbs 24:17-18 As a American im soooooooooooooo happy we got the ***** and he didnt even see it coming. I love it. Are troops are amazing. But as a christian I know I shouldn't rejoice in someone death. Does anybody else feel this way? I feel precisely this way. I smiled when I heard the news, and I felt like crying but didn't - not for the loss of Bin Laden's life, but for all the lives HIS life cost us. It is tragic, however we did not make it so. Any history of God in any culture will reveal one thing about God - he ain't afraid of a fight, and he fights to win. Believe 'dat.

05-03-2011, 02:20 PM	#11
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	This guy is a supreme tool. He may find it hard to believe a topped off passenger jet can't bring down a building. Conversely, I find it difficult to believe he has the understanding of physics required to make such a statement either way.

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05-03-2011, 07:40 PM	#15
GeauxForMore 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Panama City, FL Posts: 589	I'm very conflicted. This verse pops up in my head all the time since we go that *****. “Do not rejoice when your enemy falls and do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles; or the Lord will see and be displeased and turn His anger away from him.” Proverbs 24:17-18 As a American im soooooooooooooo happy we got the ***** and he didnt even see it coming. I love it. Are troops are amazing. But as a christian I know I shouldn't rejoice in someone death. Does anybody else feel this way?

05-03-2011, 08:30 PM	#18
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,200 Blog Entries: 29

05-03-2011, 11:13 PM	#19
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,324	Originally Posted by saintfan I apologize to the rest of the board, but I just can't help it. You may not 'want' to piss people off with that crap, but you just pissed me off. I have friends and relatives who served, and son you don't have the first idea about that crap spewing from your mouth... North of 100k and likely south of 200k is the civilian body count you're looking for - where in the hell did you get 1 million? This is due, in no small part, to the enemy's use of civilian buildings such as schools and hospitals and neighborhoods as a place to wage war against us. There has NEVER BEEN AN ARMY that has gone as far out of it's way as ours has over the last 10 years to avoid civilian casualties. YOU try fighting an enemy that refuses to wear a uniform and purposefully mixes himself with the general population as a method of defense. These 'innocents' you speak of provide for the bastards that kill our men and women, and breed more of them every day. This is not hate-speak on my part, and I do not wish death on the truly innocent, but you don't know the innocent from the guilty any more than I do. You may think we are there because we can't mind 'our own business', and I can assure you this statement is as telling as it can be with respect to your likely lack of a full understanding of their history as it relates to ours. The reason we're involved is because it DOES concern us. Where do you get the 'most people don't realize' numbers? Anybody with have a heart 'realizes' that civilians are being killing. Those same people understand why. Perhaps you are the one who doesn't realize something? War sucks. People die. I have no doubt we're rather kill the 'soldiers' than we would innocent civilians. Perhaps you have some great idea that you can educate the most compassionate army ever to exist on how to implement? If all you've got is 'we should mind our own business', well, my friend, you should go back about a hundred years. That'd be a good place to start your learning on what we're doing in the middle east and why. As for me, I think we're doing it all wrong. I would save AMERICAN lives by laying waste to the whole damn place. In the end, it is ONLY AMERICAN interests and AMERICAN lives that I worry about when I go to sleep at night. I don't have time to spend worrying about those, innocent as they may be, who fail to control themselves, their people, their sons and their daughters, and their leaders. What makes an American life more valuable than an Iraqi life? Lay waste to the whole place, seriously? We called the mission "Operation: Iraqi Freedom" for a reason. I don't think it was to kill everyone there. You'd think when the operation is called that, you'd have more people would have respect for the people that they are actually supposed to be rescuing. What ends up happening is we end up in these conflicts like this; people get pissed off that we are involved in these sort of conflicts with them(family deaths, friends deaths), they all unify and end up attacking us through some sort of shock attack. It is basically a perpetual cycle that continues to happen because we keep getting involved in things that we shouldn't get involved in. War is ugly, which is all the more reason to not get involved in it unless we absolutely have to. What I am saying really isn't as much a knock on the soldiers as it is a knock on the people telling the soldiers what to do. The soldiers just try to do whatever they can to help, and they should be commended for that; and they may very well try to avoid casualties more than any other army in existence. The entire body of work, going into other countries/territories causes a lot of meaningless destruction that ends up coming back to bite us in the ass and tends to cause more problems than it fixes. About the history of the middle east, our involvement in the Middle East has always revolved around 1 of 3 things. Oil, giving aid to Israel, or trying to destabilize some effort by the Soviet Union. I'm not really sure what other sort of history besides that is going to explain to me why we have consistently occupied the region. About the 1 million number, the Opinion Research Business Survey made that estimate. Most 100-200k body counts only estimate the amount of bodies actually found. Several other surveys have it up in the 400k to 1000k range.
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,324

05-04-2011, 02:00 PM	#20
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by hitta What makes an American life more valuable than an Iraqi life? Lay waste to the whole place, seriously? We called the mission "Operation: Iraqi Freedom" for a reason. I don't think it was to kill everyone there. You'd think when the operation is called that, you'd have more people would have respect for the people that they are actually supposed to be rescuing. What ends up happening is we end up in these conflicts like this; people get pissed off that we are involved in these sort of conflicts with them(family deaths, friends deaths), they all unify and end up attacking us through some sort of shock attack. It is basically a perpetual cycle that continues to happen because we keep getting involved in things that we shouldn't get involved in. War is ugly, which is all the more reason to not get involved in it unless we absolutely have to. What I am saying really isn't as much a knock on the soldiers as it is a knock on the people telling the soldiers what to do. The soldiers just try to do whatever they can to help, and they should be commended for that; and they may very well try to avoid casualties more than any other army in existence. The entire body of work, going into other countries/territories causes a lot of meaningless destruction that ends up coming back to bite us in the ass and tends to cause more problems than it fixes. About the history of the middle east, our involvement in the Middle East has always revolved around 1 of 3 things. Oil, giving aid to Israel, or trying to destabilize some effort by the Soviet Union. I'm not really sure what other sort of history besides that is going to explain to me why we have consistently occupied the region. About the 1 million number, the Opinion Research Business Survey made that estimate. Most 100-200k body counts only estimate the amount of bodies actually found. Several other surveys have it up in the 400k to 1000k range. I like to remind people who think this way that we ourselves would be speaking with heavy ****ney accents through bad teeth had the French 'minded their own business'. Of course they took sides, far before there was any world economy too by the way. How many lives might we have saved (speaking in civilian terms) had we ourselves NOT minded our own business while Hitler ran roughshod all across Europe? There is no nation in the world with any prominence that minds its own business as you suggest. It is ludicrous to suggest it. It is narrow minded and agenda-based and displays a complete lack of understanding of how the world works. It is a world economy, and while you may not like it the fact remains. Some oft and easily offended people have tantamount power over the fates of economies across the globe, and people like you think we should just let them waiver on a whim. The middle east is a deep rabbit hole, and we have certainly not 'consistently occupied' that region. There have been plenty of post WWII issues in that part of the world, based on decisions that were NOT unilaterally made by the United States, although the United States supports and leads the effort to enforce many of them. How old are you anyway? You seem fairly confident or at least content to place the burden for loss of civilian life squarely on the shoulders of the United States Military. And by the way, there is plenty of respect for the people we are 'rescuing', however I don't think you are very well up to speed on how these civilians end up dead. I say this because you are far too eager to place the blame on America. I find it interesting that you slam this loss of life while praising our soldiers. It is convenient to say that, but it is double-speak. You blame the government and yet you praise the men and women carrying out its orders. I don't believe you could have less of a clue if you tried real hard. I think you have an anti-war agenda and I think it causes you to say and to assume ignorant crap. But that's just what I think. Based on how you appear to feel, shouldn't every man and woman serving in the United States Military throw down their weapons and refuse to fight, and since you seem so upset about it all, why isn't THAT your true agenda...or is it? At any rate, you and I can agree to disagree, and believe me we do - my intent is not to attack you personally, however any...ANY suggestion or insinuation that the United States Military takes the loss of civilian life now or ever lightly really infuriates me. You think you're so much more enlightened because YOU recognize this while the rest of us just blow it off. Hell man, the whole battle plan (erroneously, in my option, as I have suggested ) revolves around limiting loss of life and all out destruction. But just one more thing, if I may: Sans oil and the Soviet Union (that would be the former, but I digress), do you rekon we could successfully take our ball and go home and be left in peace? You know as well as I the answer is no, unless you are even more blinded than I think you are. Assuming you agree with me, then, minus the tinkering in world affairs in our own best interests, how would YOU handle the situation? And finally, to answer your question as to what makes an American life more valuable than an Iraqi one: That fact that it is an AMERICAN one should be enough. I am saddened to think that this country is full of people who disagree. This is not a display of hatred for any people any where, the loss of life at all is tragic, but at the end of the day, I value our boys more than theirs. I do hope that answers your question.
	C'mon Man...