I Want to Understand Why Gas Prices are So Damned High

skymike · 03-16-2012, 07:12 AM

Oil makes the world go round, honey.

Make up all the imaginary white collar capitalist bogeymen you want.

For every one of your straw men, there are 1,000 "good" people who have JOBS because of Oil. Everything you use is made of OIL. Everything you need is transported by OIL.

If you can catch a ride to work on a unicorn, knock yourself out. Maybe you can fill your tank with rainbows.

But if you screw Oil, you screw all of us, and yourself...

.... as your Anointed One is about to learn.

-- now go back to your indoctrination sources and come tell us some more of your amazing "facts."

Crusader · 03-22-2012, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by skymike

Oil makes the world go round, honey.

Make up all the imaginary white collar capitalist bogeymen you want.

For every one of your straw men, there are 1,000 "good" people who have JOBS because of Oil. Everything you use is made of OIL. Everything you need is transported by OIL.

If you can catch a ride to work on a unicorn, knock yourself out. Maybe you can fill your tank with rainbows.

But if you screw Oil, you screw all of us, and yourself...

.... as your Anointed One is about to learn.

-- now go back to your indoctrination sources and come tell us some more of your amazing "facts."

I don't believe that everything have to be transported by oil, less of all humans. Electric cars are getting rally good. I'd love to have a Chevy Volt or a hybrid like Toyota prius. Sure there will be oil for maybe 30-40 more years but if we all coninue driving like we do today and add that most everybody in India and China will gonna want a car there just will not be enough oil. IMHO the oil that is left is more needed for makine plastics etc than for powering motorcars.

SloMotion · 03-22-2012, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Crusader

I don't believe that everything have to be transported by oil, less of all humans. Electric cars are getting rally good. I'd love to have a Chevy Volt or a hybrid like Toyota prius. Sure there will be oil for maybe 30-40 more years but if we all coninue driving like we do today and add that most everybody in India and China will gonna want a car there just will not be enough oil. IMHO the oil that is left is more needed for makine plastics etc than for powering motorcars.

You make a good point, but electric vehicles are not yet a viable option for the everyday consumer. I worked on the Volt platform and the rest of GM's alternative fuel vehicles and they're not as economical/reliable as GM would have you believe.

There has been a lot of pressure from the current Administration on the car companies to rush this technology to market, the result being an inferior, overpriced, under-engineered product. I'd rather have a golf cart then a Volt, seriously, or at least a Nissan Leaf.

From my point of view, the entire fuel infrastructure of a region/country is going to have to be uprgraded to allow for efficient, cost effective refueling of alternative fuel vehicles, regardless of what alternative fuel they may use (hydrogen, natural gas, electric), before this method of transportation is ever going to catch on.

Myself, personally ... I don't mind taking a bus or using mass-transit and love cities like WashDC, Tokyo, Rome, et... where you can get around basically without having to own a vehicle, but most people want their cars and until it's affordable and convenient, alternative fuel vehicles are for those with the money wanting to make a statement.

Raising fuel prices as a means to encourage people to use alternative energy sources, which I feel is what they're basically doing now, when they are not economically available to the masses does the exact opposite. As fuel prices rise, I see people just spending a larger portion of their budgets on fuel and cutting back on more and more on other necessities.

It's getting rough out here.

saintfan · 03-22-2012, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Crusader

I don't believe that everything have to be transported by oil, less of all humans. Electric cars are getting rally good. I'd love to have a Chevy Volt or a hybrid like Toyota prius. Sure there will be oil for maybe 30-40 more years but if we all coninue driving like we do today and add that most everybody in India and China will gonna want a car there just will not be enough oil. IMHO the oil that is left is more needed for makine plastics etc than for powering motorcars.

I agree that alternative sources should be developed and implemented, but have you seen what they do to the environment mining for the materials to make batteries for electric cars? Those sites look like moonscapes, and the batteries themselves only last (we think) about three years. Those discarded batteries become hazardous waste. It still takes oil to build them. Perhaps there is a net gain in CO2 emissions from people driving their gas-powered cars, but I'm not sure it would be substantial enough all things considered.

And those battery manufactures will be getting all kinds of subsidies from the government just like oil companies. They already are.

Lithium is the way this will go, and mining for lithium - or anything else for that matter - is brutal on the environment...brutal...period...not up for debate.

Nearly half the world's supply that we are aware of is in South America. The new "middle east"? Who knows? As is the case with any other natural resource, the supply of lithium is not endless. I guess my point is that electric cars sooth the liberal agenda as it relates to those big 'ol bad 'ol mean 'ol oil companies, but they aren't the end all be all either. Many if not all of the problems with the oil industry will migrate to lithium or whatever else is derived because the root cause for those issues will not have been changed. There ARE ramifications, and they are not petty.

I ride a motorcycle and have considered the 'electric' options, but they're too heavy, don't go fast enough, and don't last long enough on a charge...

It's not as easy as some want to believe.

SmashMouth · 03-22-2012, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

I agree that alternative sources should be developed and implemented, but have you seen what they do to the environment mining for the materials to make batteries for electric cars? Those sites look like moonscapes, and the batteries themselves only last (we think) about three years. Those discarded batteries become hazardous waste. It still takes oil to build them. Perhaps there is a net gain in CO2 emissions from people driving their gas-powered cars, but I'm not sure it would be substantial enough all things considered.

And those battery manufactures will be getting all kinds of subsidies from the government just like oil companies. They already are.

Lithium is the way this will go, and mining for lithium - or anything else for that matter - is brutal on the environment...brutal...period...not up for debate.

Nearly half the world's supply that we are aware of is in South America. The new "middle east"? Who knows? As is the case with any other natural resource, the supply of lithium is not endless. I guess my point is that electric cars sooth the liberal agenda as it relates to those big 'ol bad 'ol mean 'ol oil companies, but they aren't the end all be all either. Many if not all of the problems with the oil industry will migrate to lithium or whatever else is derived because the root cause for those issues will not have been changed. There ARE ramifications, and they are not petty.

I ride a motorcycle and have considered the 'electric' options, but they're too heavy, don't go fast enough, and don't last long enough on a charge...

It's not as easy as some want to believe.

And China is buying all all resources of Lithium it can !!!

03-16-2012, 07:12 AM	#1
skymike E. Side Cholo Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Barrio, H-town Posts: 6,089	Oil makes the world go round, honey. Make up all the imaginary white collar capitalist bogeymen you want. For every one of your straw men, there are 1,000 "good" people who have JOBS because of Oil. Everything you use is made of OIL. Everything you need is transported by OIL. If you can catch a ride to work on a unicorn, knock yourself out. Maybe you can fill your tank with rainbows. But if you screw Oil, you screw all of us, and yourself... .... as your Anointed One is about to learn. -- now go back to your indoctrination sources and come tell us some more of your amazing "facts." saintfan and mapcow like this.

03-22-2012, 02:29 AM	#2
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,048	Originally Posted by skymike Oil makes the world go round, honey. Make up all the imaginary white collar capitalist bogeymen you want. For every one of your straw men, there are 1,000 "good" people who have JOBS because of Oil. Everything you use is made of OIL. Everything you need is transported by OIL. If you can catch a ride to work on a unicorn, knock yourself out. Maybe you can fill your tank with rainbows. But if you screw Oil, you screw all of us, and yourself... .... as your Anointed One is about to learn. -- now go back to your indoctrination sources and come tell us some more of your amazing "facts." I don't believe that everything have to be transported by oil, less of all humans. Electric cars are getting rally good. I'd love to have a Chevy Volt or a hybrid like Toyota prius. Sure there will be oil for maybe 30-40 more years but if we all coninue driving like we do today and add that most everybody in India and China will gonna want a car there just will not be enough oil. IMHO the oil that is left is more needed for makine plastics etc than for powering motorcars.

03-22-2012, 07:25 AM	#3
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Originally Posted by Crusader I don't believe that everything have to be transported by oil, less of all humans. Electric cars are getting rally good. I'd love to have a Chevy Volt or a hybrid like Toyota prius. Sure there will be oil for maybe 30-40 more years but if we all coninue driving like we do today and add that most everybody in India and China will gonna want a car there just will not be enough oil. IMHO the oil that is left is more needed for makine plastics etc than for powering motorcars. You make a good point, but electric vehicles are not yet a viable option for the everyday consumer. I worked on the Volt platform and the rest of GM's alternative fuel vehicles and they're not as economical/reliable as GM would have you believe. There has been a lot of pressure from the current Administration on the car companies to rush this technology to market, the result being an inferior, overpriced, under-engineered product. I'd rather have a golf cart then a Volt, seriously, or at least a Nissan Leaf. From my point of view, the entire fuel infrastructure of a region/country is going to have to be uprgraded to allow for efficient, cost effective refueling of alternative fuel vehicles, regardless of what alternative fuel they may use (hydrogen, natural gas, electric), before this method of transportation is ever going to catch on. Myself, personally ... I don't mind taking a bus or using mass-transit and love cities like WashDC, Tokyo, Rome, et... where you can get around basically without having to own a vehicle, but most people want their cars and until it's affordable and convenient, alternative fuel vehicles are for those with the money wanting to make a statement. Raising fuel prices as a means to encourage people to use alternative energy sources, which I feel is what they're basically doing now, when they are not economically available to the masses does the exact opposite. As fuel prices rise, I see people just spending a larger portion of their budgets on fuel and cutting back on more and more on other necessities. It's getting rough out here. saintfan likes this.

03-22-2012, 10:43 AM	#4
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by Crusader I don't believe that everything have to be transported by oil, less of all humans. Electric cars are getting rally good. I'd love to have a Chevy Volt or a hybrid like Toyota prius. Sure there will be oil for maybe 30-40 more years but if we all coninue driving like we do today and add that most everybody in India and China will gonna want a car there just will not be enough oil. IMHO the oil that is left is more needed for makine plastics etc than for powering motorcars. I agree that alternative sources should be developed and implemented, but have you seen what they do to the environment mining for the materials to make batteries for electric cars? Those sites look like moonscapes, and the batteries themselves only last (we think) about three years. Those discarded batteries become hazardous waste. It still takes oil to build them. Perhaps there is a net gain in CO2 emissions from people driving their gas-powered cars, but I'm not sure it would be substantial enough all things considered. And those battery manufactures will be getting all kinds of subsidies from the government just like oil companies. They already are. Lithium is the way this will go, and mining for lithium - or anything else for that matter - is brutal on the environment...brutal...period...not up for debate. Nearly half the world's supply that we are aware of is in South America. The new "middle east"? Who knows? As is the case with any other natural resource, the supply of lithium is not endless. I guess my point is that electric cars sooth the liberal agenda as it relates to those big 'ol bad 'ol mean 'ol oil companies, but they aren't the end all be all either. Many if not all of the problems with the oil industry will migrate to lithium or whatever else is derived because the root cause for those issues will not have been changed. There ARE ramifications, and they are not petty. I ride a motorcycle and have considered the 'electric' options, but they're too heavy, don't go fast enough, and don't last long enough on a charge... It's not as easy as some want to believe. SloMotion likes this.
	C'mon Man...

03-22-2012, 06:34 PM	#5
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,910 Blog Entries: 29	Originally Posted by saintfan I agree that alternative sources should be developed and implemented, but have you seen what they do to the environment mining for the materials to make batteries for electric cars? Those sites look like moonscapes, and the batteries themselves only last (we think) about three years. Those discarded batteries become hazardous waste. It still takes oil to build them. Perhaps there is a net gain in CO2 emissions from people driving their gas-powered cars, but I'm not sure it would be substantial enough all things considered. And those battery manufactures will be getting all kinds of subsidies from the government just like oil companies. They already are. Lithium is the way this will go, and mining for lithium - or anything else for that matter - is brutal on the environment...brutal...period...not up for debate. Nearly half the world's supply that we are aware of is in South America. The new "middle east"? Who knows? As is the case with any other natural resource, the supply of lithium is not endless. I guess my point is that electric cars sooth the liberal agenda as it relates to those big 'ol bad 'ol mean 'ol oil companies, but they aren't the end all be all either. Many if not all of the problems with the oil industry will migrate to lithium or whatever else is derived because the root cause for those issues will not have been changed. There ARE ramifications, and they are not petty. I ride a motorcycle and have considered the 'electric' options, but they're too heavy, don't go fast enough, and don't last long enough on a charge... It's not as easy as some want to believe. And China is buying all all resources of Lithium it can !!!