No, FIN/SWE definitely don't get along - especially when we are talking sports in any form. It's because of our shared history - Sweden ruled over Finland from the 1500s to the start of the 19th century and they didn't help Finland in either of the wars against Russia during WWII.

Yeah, I know Bobby Orr is considered the best defenceman ever, but there are a lot of favorable comparisons between the two in favor of Lidstrom. It's a debate, which can't be easily settled, but none the less I've heard it being stated in numerous different venues.

Well, I can respect that and it's one of the reasons I like talking with people from different regions/countries ... you learn stuff. You know, I think the largest population of Fins in the US is here in Michigan, the Upper Peninsula, actually. I remember going up north and seeing that pointed out everywhere. It's kind of interesting and the UP has to be a lot like Finland.

I suppose if I looked at it close enough, I'd begrudgingly agree that Lidstrom was better then Orr, but it's hard to give up boyhood heroes. The guys who played in the late '60s, early '70s are forever etched in my mind as the greatest of all time, even though today's players are bigger, faster, more skilled. Seems like it's more of an effort for me to follow 'em today then it was back then too. But it also seems like I can watch the sport and enjoy it more today then I could back then ... I think watching my kids play taught me that.

Yeah, most of the Finnish immigrant ended up in Michigan and Minnesota - I guess because it was very similar to what it is like in Finland. I remember reading from somewhere that most of them worked as lumberjacks in the vast forests of the upper peninsula, like you stated. They were mostly just men in the beginning, who spent most of their year cutting down forest and they only went to towns a couple of days a year where they sent most of the money they had made back to their families in Finland and off course had a couple of drinks. The funny things is that I've seen shop/bar signs that state "No Indians, No Finns allowed!" because they used get pretty animated on those rare visits to town.

I think I remember there even being a region called Finland or was it "Suomi" (Finland in Finnish) and they have a Finlandia University that promotes Finnish heritage:

Finlandia University

The NHL game itself has become so much more entertaining from what it was only a decade ago, most if not all of the rules changes have been for the best, but I still think they should allow more bigger hits (off course not including those with an intention to hurt or when targeting the head). The icing rule is something that they will have to take a closer look at, because as it is at the moment it is not working. This season the zeebras aren't even whistling icing is some player is deemed to have been close enough to puck even though they didn't touch it - it's ridiculous, and makes teams playing the 1-3-1 incredibly hard to open up. They should make it an instant whistle without the need for a touch, just stop calling them altogether or be more strict with the determination of icings.

I think the 'Suomi' region you're talking about is near Hancock, Michigan and I think that's where the Finlandia University is too ... as a boy I had a friend with cottage in Tivola and we would spend the summer there while his parents went home to North Dakota. That's where I kind of got familiar with the Fins in Michigan. They used to work the mines up there too ... hey, is a 'pasty' really Finnish food? Do you know what one of those are? They're really good, I just wonder because around here they say it's Finland food.

Yeah, the game is more exciting to watch they way they've opened it up ... a lot of that has to do with the European players entering the league also. I haven't understood the icing calls/non-calls for the longest, it doesn't seem like there is any consistency ... I like the instant whistle/no touch idea ... just whistle the play down and get 'em to a face-off. Who's running a 1-3-1 now? Tampa used to run a version of it, I think.

I don't know about "pasty," but you might be referring to "pasteija" which is a kind of a small savory closed-up pie with usually a rice & meat mixture as a filling. But there are more fairly similar type of words for other Finnish food articles, so it might not be that one.

The problem with the icing calls as they are now - with the huge inconsistencies as you mentioned - is that the players don't always know what the situation is in a given occasion. I've seen many games where the defenseman was first to touch an icing puck, but the referees had waived off the icing without the defenseman noticing it or any of his teammates informing him of that - the defenseman stops playing after he has touched the puck only to be rocked by a huge tackle by the opposing teams "gunner." That is when players get hurt in situations that have no significance to the actual game and that is what frustrates me about those types of occasions. It's a whole other thing when a player gets hurt during a play where it was just part of the game, and no one had an intention to injure the said player, but all of these open ice tackles that clearly target the head of the player are just inexcusable and there should be longer suspension for them. For example, the player who is found to have clearly targeted the head of the opposing player and consequently have caused an injury to the said player, should be suspended for at least the same period of time it takes for the injured player to return to the active roster. It's crazy that someone gets a 3 game suspension for causing an injury and the other guy misses 20 games recovering form the injury. I think this type of a stricter punishment guideline would cut down on the cheap shots, because players would adjust their game much faster if they had a strong incentive like this.

I don't know exactly how many teams use the 1-3-1 as their main defensive stance, only Tampa if I had to name them from the top of my head. And even Tampa uses it mostly when they've been able to get a lead in the game which they're trying to defend. Most teams, I guess, use some form of 1-3-1 at least at specific situations within the game, but none use it more than Tampa. At least it's not as bad as the trap game the New Jersey Devils played in the '90s before the rules changes.

Yeah, "pasteija" is it, meat/rice in a crust ... they are awesome!

There are so many interpretations, variations and rule changes in regards to icing over the years, it only makes sense to me with the PK anymore in that when you're one man down, you can shoot the puck the length of the ice.

I agree with you about the need to be more consistent in calling icing. I've seen it too many times on all levels where icing is waved off and two or more players crash the boards at full speed, racing for the puck, and somebody is injured or a fight breaks out.

The whole 'injury-suspension' debate hits close to home in Detroit. I agree that if the offending player is intentional and/or grossly negligient, the suspension should be as long as the injury he inflicts. I was ticked off in '96 when Lemieux (Avalance) broke Draper's (Wings) face in the playoffs and Draper is out the rest of the short season and Lemieux is only suspended two games and allowed to play for the Cup. I always felt he should have been suspended the remainder of the season for that hit. I thought the indefinite suspension of Bertuzzi (Vancouver) for his hit on Moore (Colorado) back in 04 (?) was appropriate, but then they lifted it and now he actually plays for the Wings.

I'd almost like to see them go back to playing without helmets and face shields, that would cut down on a lot of the stuff that goes on. It's a different story when they're out there without all that protection, makes them respect each other and the game a little bit more.

That Bertuzzi vs Moore thing reminded me of the McSorley vs Brasheard incident - that was just crazy and McSorley was banned for life if I recall correctly, I think he ended up playing in England or something like that.

I was trying to think of that incident! McSorely was always an 'enforcer' on the ice, but I was suprised at him using his stick like that. Brashear was a bit of a tough-guy himself and I don't see why they didn't just drop the gloves and finish the game out on a high-note, .

It's funny, around that time my son was involved in a similiar incident where a kid came at him with a stick to the head and my boy was lucky enough to see it coming and parried the blow. The agressor continued to attack and a sort of 'sword-fight' with hockey sticks ensued ... good thing Pirates-of-the-Caribbean was popular as my son attributes his sword fighting skills, to this day, to Captain Jack Sparrow, lol. Anyway, it was the ugly side of youth hockey in the US. I vaguely remember referencing McSorely/Brashear at some point to the league regarding my son's incident because they actually tried to assign blame to my son for the unprovoked attack of the other kid, but I can't remember if it was before or after. Oh well, some things are better left forgotten.

Your depiction of that stick fight regarding your son instantly brought to mind this classic fight scene from the classic hockey movie "Youngblood."


The quality isn't great, and this was the best one I found, unfortunately the original sounds have been replaced by Beastie Boys.

LoL, something like that except it was more like a StarWars/Return of the Jedi light sabre battle, the combatants were around 9 and it didn't end up in a brawl.