New Orleans Saints Forums - blackandgold.com - Packers Hiring Matt LaFleur as Head Coach

New Orleans Saints Forums - blackandgold.com (https://blackandgold.com/community/)

- NFL (https://blackandgold.com/nfl/)

- - Packers Hiring Matt LaFleur as Head Coach (https://blackandgold.com/nfl/91945-packers-hiring-matt-lafleur-head-coach.html)

Packers Hiring Matt LaFleur as Head Coach

This is a little bit of a surprise. Real gamble for the Packers. LaFleur was Matt Ryan’s QB coach in 2016, then the OC with the Rams last year but didn’t call the plays.

Re: Packers Hiring Matt LaFleur as Head Coach

Disappointed. I'm also a Titans fan. Mariota needs some consistency and changed OC every year isn't going to help.

Re: Packers Hiring Matt LaFleur as Head Coach

Wow, did you see the rankings of LeFleur's offenses?

Re: Packers Hiring Matt LaFleur as Head Coach

Packers' Matt LaFleur tears Achilles playing Knockout

Packers' Matt LaFleur tears Achilles playing Knockout - NFL.com

Re: Packers Hiring Matt LaFleur as Head Coach

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/aaron-r...205544894.html

Quote:

“I don’t think you want me to turn off 11 years,” Rodgers tells Mike Silver of NFL Media in a story that Silver says is coming early this week. “There’s stuff that not many people in the league can do at the line. That’s not a humble brag. That’s just a fact.”

This one quote should reinforce our appreciation to having Drew Brees at QB and not this pompous, egotistical baby. Just got his previous SB winning head coach fired, already feuding with his new one and bragging about himself.

Re: Packers Hiring Matt LaFleur as Head Coach

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHA_CHING (Post 846773)

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/aaron-r...205544894.html

This one quote should reinforce our appreciation to having Drew Brees at QB and not this pompous, egotistical baby. Just got his previous SB winning head coach fired, already feuding with his new one and bragging about himself.

When your own family doesn't like you...it speaks volumes.

Re: Packers Hiring Matt LaFleur as Head Coach

Quote:

Here’s a chart that I suspect will surprise you; it surprised me. It shows first down percentage, by season, for Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, and Rodgers.

2009: Manning [40.8], Rivers [40.7], Brees [39.3], Brady [36.8], Roethlisberger [36.6], Rodgers [33.3]

2010: Rivers [40.4], Brady [36.6], Manning [36.4], Rodgers [36.2], Roethlisberger [35.4], Brees [34.6]

2011: Brees [40.8], Brady [40.6], Rodgers [38.7], Rivers [38.2], Roethlisberger [38.0], Manning [N/A]

2012: Brady [38.4], Brees [38.2], Manning [38.1], Rodgers [35.0], Roethlisberger [34.0], Rivers [31.9]

2013: Manning [42.7], Rivers [40.1], Brees [35.5], Rodgers [34.7], Brady [33.7], Roethlisberger [32.7]

2014: Rodgers [40.0], Brees [37.5], Roethlisberger [37.4], Manning [36.6], Brady [36.5], Rivers [35.1]

2015: Roethlisberger [35.6], Brees [34.7], Brady [34.4], Rivers [32.2], Manning [31.7], Rodgers [28.0]

2016: Brees [37.7], Brady [36.5], Roethlisberger [35.0], Rivers [34.9], Rodgers [34.4]

2017: Brady [37.3], Rivers [36.4], Brees [36.2], Roethlisberger [35.6], Rodgers [32.7]

2018: Rivers [39.4], Brees [39.3], Roethlisberger [35.5], Brady [34.7], Rodgers [31.0]

The chart begins in 2009, which was the first year “defenseless receiver ” rules were in place, and works significantly to Rodgers’ benefit, since his 1stD% in 2008 was just 31.9, lowest among the qualified players listed above. I realize I’m comparing Rodgers to the best QBs of his generation, but all these players have longer careers than Rodgers, and if we want to rank Rodgers in the same neighborhood as them, he needs to be clearly superior during the period they were all active. Instead — by this metric, at least — he lags behind. He ranks last (among this elite group) in five of the ten seasons listed, and in the bottom half of the group eight of the ten seasons. He has never led the league in first down percentage (Tony Romo was at 40.6% in 2014).

I don't know why first down percentage is rarely (if ever) mentioned by stat nerds. It's one of my favorite stats cause it's supposed to be an offense's job to move the ball down the field and get into position to score.

For those that love to argue Brees got snubbed in 2011, here's you a key argument that he completely led over Rodgers in first down percentage.

I've been saying this for the past 3 years - when you take away Rodgers' precious, holy TD/INT ratio and actually judge him on every other metric in stats, he falls behind and is a slightly above average QB.

Another comment -

Quote:

Brad, thank you for highlighting the importance of first downs in the Aaron Rodgers write-up. Moving the chains is literally what allows an offense to drive down the field, and yet picking up first downs is rarely talked about, even among stats people. It's a vital statistic that needs to be discussed far more than it currently is.

I've been tracking marginal passing first downs for a while now. Here are the career numbers for HOF candidates of recent times, read as passing 1D over league average:

P Manning +629
Brees +397
Brady +367
Rivers +314
Roethlisberger +276
Favre +266
Warner +193
Rodgers +97
E Manning -26

Rodgers is way behind the other legends at producing first downs through the air (Eli doesn't count, his HOF candidacy is a joke). While he has added some extra first downs with his legs, Rodgers still doesn't move the chains as reliably as a QB of his stature should. That means a lot of Rodgers' drives have fizzled out in situations where the other greats would've kept the possession going.

I think this is a result of Rodgers' paradoxical playing style. He holds the ball forever looking for a big play to materialize while simultaneously going out of his way to avoid the risk of an interception. The side effect of this style is that Rodgers often throws the ball away or takes a sack instead of throwing the intermediate pass to move the chains.

The bolded part is something I've been saying for years too. Rodgers' style of play is counter-productive in how he tries to extend every play, refuses check downs, refuses to take what the defense gives him and goes for hail mary passes and is so scared he's going to throw an interception. Rodgers gets all this praise for his football IQ, but I really don't see it. He relies so much on his arm and athleticism, it's not a question that he's declined ever since he's been figured out and stopped. I think this is the major difference between him in comparison to Manning, Brees and Brady. The other 3 QBs have had longer careers and were able to extend their careers when their skills began declining, all due to reading defenses and having a high football IQ. Brady don't even have much of an arm anymore but still put on a really good show in the AFCCG with reading the Chiefs defense and making key adjustments. We see Brees do this all the time and Manning did it his career. Rodgers on the other hand? He is on record changing McCarthy's play calls over 70% of the time and yet the Packers struggle when he does this.

He broke the record for most passes out of bounds last year all while trying to get that record for lowest INT percentage in NFL history. He got the record but at what cost? The Packers didn't even rank in the top 10 last year in first downs, so many of those drives stalled and were punts cause the man with the ball refused to make better decisions.

Another note - look how far better Favre ranks in first down percentage. Packers fans argue this all the time over who is more frustrating; Rodgers or Favre. With Favre, you know you run the risk of a higher INT percentage, but he was better at moving the chains and driving down the field. Rodgers will protect his stats at the cost of sacrificing drives from big sacks and throwing out of bounds. I don't care about the INTs, I'd trust Favre over him.

Key note on the 2018 stats, even with Brees' decline late in the season, he still led the league in first down percentage.

IMO as I said 3 years ago - Aaron Rodgers is going to go down as the most overrated good QB of the past 20 years. I think a decade from now, people will look back and wonder how come analysts spent years arguing he was just as good and better than Manning, Brees and Brady. He is this generation's Steve Young and he's not even as good as Young was, whom led the league in TDs at 37 years old and kept the 49ers offense in the top 5 every year in first down percentage.

Re: Packers Hiring Matt LaFleur as Head Coach

I never thought Rodgers as being great, its a wonder he ever won a SB, but then again he had talent around him that Brett Favre probably would of won with had he not moved on.

He would be a modern day Steve Young as noted, Young was overrated as well in his era, his one SB was beating injured Dallas team and overrated Chargers teams that needed a miracle to win the AFC that year.

Re: Packers Hiring Matt LaFleur as Head Coach

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHA_CHING (Post 847778)

Some interesting notes for the Rodgers vs Brees debate.

Over on FP blogs, Brad Oremland lists Rodgers in the top 100 players at 103.

He had this glaring stat to point out.

Best Players in Pro Football History: 101-110, By Brad Oremland

I don't know why first down percentage is rarely (if ever) mentioned by stat nerds. It's one of my favorite stats cause it's supposed to be an offense's job to move the ball down the field and get into position to score.

For those that love to argue Brees got snubbed in 2011, here's you a key argument that he completely led over Rodgers in first down percentage.

I've been saying this for the past 3 years - when you take away Rodgers' precious, holy TD/INT ratio and actually judge him on every other metric in stats, he falls behind and is a slightly above average QB.

Another comment -

The bolded part is something I've been saying for years too. Rodgers' style of play is counter-productive in how he tries to extend every play, refuses check downs, refuses to take what the defense gives him and goes for hail mary passes and is so scared he's going to throw an interception. Rodgers gets all this praise for his football IQ, but I really don't see it. He relies so much on his arm and athleticism, it's not a question that he's declined ever since he's been figured out and stopped. I think this is the major difference between him in comparison to Manning, Brees and Brady. The other 3 QBs have had longer careers and were able to extend their careers when their skills began declining, all due to reading defenses and having a high football IQ. Brady don't even have much of an arm anymore but still put on a really good show in the AFCCG with reading the Chiefs defense and making key adjustments. We see Brees do this all the time and Manning did it his career. Rodgers on the other hand? He is on record changing McCarthy's play calls over 70% of the time and yet the Packers struggle when he does this.

He broke the record for most passes out of bounds last year all while trying to get that record for lowest INT percentage in NFL history. He got the record but at what cost? The Packers didn't even rank in the top 10 last year in first downs, so many of those drives stalled and were punts cause the man with the ball refused to make better decisions.

Another note - look how far better Favre ranks in first down percentage. Packers fans argue this all the time over who is more frustrating; Rodgers or Favre. With Favre, you know you run the risk of a higher INT percentage, but he was better at moving the chains and driving down the field. Rodgers will protect his stats at the cost of sacrificing drives from big sacks and throwing out of bounds. I don't care about the INTs, I'd trust Favre over him.

Key note on the 2018 stats, even with Brees' decline late in the season, he still led the league in first down percentage.

IMO as I said 3 years ago - Aaron Rodgers is going to go down as the most overrated good QB of the past 20 years. I think a decade from now, people will look back and wonder how come analysts spent years arguing he was just as good and better than Manning, Brees and Brady. He is this generation's Steve Young and he's not even as good as Young was, whom led the league in TDs at 37 years old and kept the 49ers offense in the top 5 every year in first down percentage.

So... are you saying ROGERS is overrated?

Re: Packers Hiring Matt LaFleur as Head Coach

ROGERS IS AN EGGSPURT! JUST ASK HIM!!

Re: Packers Hiring Matt LaFleur as Head Coach

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vrillon82 (Post 850776)

I would not call that 1994 Chargers team overrated. They were 18 point underdogs on the spread in that SB, making it one of the biggest one sided match-ups in SB history. I think they were even bigger underdogs than Buffalo was in both matches against Dallas. No one believed in them and Vegas was right, cause within just 5 minutes of the game and the Niners first two drives, they had already out-gained them by over 150 yards and were up 14-0. In all reality, the Chargers should've lost to the Dolphins in the divisional round. Miami blew a 15 point lead and then their kicker missed what would've been the game winning field goal in the final seconds. The AFC was a truly weak conference in the early 90's when Buffalo was dominating it, but it became even worse in 1994 and 1995 when San Diego and Pittsburgh squeaked into the SB. (That Steelers team is the one that is truly overrated. Dallas should've throttled them in the SB and probably would've if Johnson was still the coach)

Putting Young side by side with Rodgers though, Young comes out ahead for still being able to play at a high level in his final years. He led the league in TDs at 37 years old and ranked high in first down percentage. Rodgers has been a mediocre QB now for the past 3 years and he's not 37 yet. Even at his peak, there was only one year (2014) where he truly ranked great at first down percentage.

Their playoff records though are nearly identical. The 49ers had some embarrassing playoff exits in the 90s, including the three consecutive blowout losses to Green Bay - two of which were in Candlestick Park. No one ever talks about the loss to Atlanta in 1998, maybe cause they really shouldn't have been there. Green Bay was robbed by the incomplete pass call on Jerry Rice's obvious fumble.

The Rodgers Packers were 15-1 when they got blown out by a 9-7 Giants team at Lambeau. They also have embarrassing blowout playoff losses to the Niners and Falcons as well as heart breaker losses to the Cards. The one that takes the cake for me though is the blown 16 point lead in the NFC title game to Seattle, where GB picked off Russel Wilson 4 times and still couldn't seal the deal.

These Packers teams really remind me of the 90's era 49ers as a whole. Back in the day, it was endless hype and talk about how the 49ers dynasty was going to continue, before they ran into Dallas. They pretty much had to buy a SB in 1994 by cheating the salary cap to make an all star roster and what good it did them after that year cause Favre started slaying them in the playoffs afterwards. The Packers under Rodgers were supposed to become a dynasty and like that SF team, they only made it to one SB. Rodgers has padded his stats though in multiple blowout losses, no different than how Steve Young did when his Niners teams were getting smoked.