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-   -   ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL... (https://blackandgold.com/saints/100154-we-seeing-new-nfl.html)

dizzle88 02-15-2021 11:04 AM

Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 914576)
No doubt this is important, but I think a major overlooked factor is the timing of injuries. I don’t think Tampa wins if KC isn’t missing 3 O linemen and I don’t think they beat the Saints if Hill, Murray, Thomas, and Harris are healthy. Tampa had a late bye and got all their pieces healthy at the right moment. Throw in the obvious favoritism the refs gave them during the playoffs and boom, 7 rings for Brady.

I agree on the injury and reffing front in terms of in the playoffs and vs KC. However, regardless of our Injury Status, I've seen this team come out flat in 4 straight playoff exits.

The playoff saints are a different team. Everything we do well during the regular season, inexplicably becomes a weakness in the playoffs and they look like they don't want to be there. No fire at all.

Rugby Saint II 02-15-2021 11:45 AM

Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 914579)
I agree on the injury and reffing front in terms of in the playoffs and vs KC. However, regardless of our Injury Status, I've seen this team come out flat in 4 straight playoff exits.

The playoff saints are a different team. Everything we do well during the regular season, inexplicably becomes a weakness in the playoffs and they look like they don't want to be there. No fire at all.

That's what I see too. They like to go through the motions because they think they are so good that they can be winners without really trying. They have bought into the hype.

AsylumGuido 02-15-2021 05:54 PM

Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 914579)
I agree on the injury and reffing front in terms of in the playoffs and vs KC. However, regardless of our Injury Status, I've seen this team come out flat in 4 straight playoff exits.

The playoff saints are a different team. Everything we do well during the regular season, inexplicably becomes a weakness in the playoffs and they look like they don't want to be there. No fire at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 914580)
That's what I see too. They like to go through the motions because they think they are so good that they can be winners without really trying. They have bought into the hype.

Or we are simply unlucky as hell. One team has to lose. When we have been knocked out we haven't been blown out. It has always been a few key plays here or there. There isn't a player on any of those teams that weren't trying their asses off. A team has to lose and it was ours.

vpheughan 02-16-2021 06:23 AM

Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL...
 
Remind me again why the San Francisco fans are called the "Whiners" Cheese sales skyrocket during the off season in N.O.! Ask the Whole Meats Guy!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Rugby Saint II 02-16-2021 12:38 PM

Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido;914601[B
]Or we are simply unlucky as hell.[/B] One team has to lose. When we have been knocked out we haven't been blown out. It has always been a few key plays here or there. There isn't a player on any of those teams that weren't trying their asses off. A team has to lose and it was ours.

You make you own luck my friend. :beatnik:

Rugby Saint II 02-16-2021 12:38 PM

Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido;914601[B
]Or we are simply unlucky as hell.[/B] One team has to lose. When we have been knocked out we haven't been blown out. It has always been a few key plays here or there. There isn't a player on any of those teams that weren't trying their asses off. A team has to lose and it was ours.

You make you own luck my friend. :beatnik:

Boston Saint 02-16-2021 12:55 PM

Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 914615)
You make you own luck my friend. :beatnik:

I don’t think the Saints had anything to do with making the luck of the non PI call against the Rams. Just like I don’t the Packers had much to do with making the luck Tampa got against them on the PI call they got late in the NFCCG to clinch the game.

jeanpierre 02-16-2021 01:09 PM

Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston Saint;914620[B
]I don’t think the Saints had anything to do with making the luck of the non PI call against the Rams[/B]. Just like I don’t the Packers had much to do with making the luck Tampa got against them on the PI call they got late in the NFCCG to clinch the game.

They were a lot of missed opportunities, coaching and players, that put the team in that position - that's what Rugs means by making your own luck - at least that's my take on his post...

jeanpierre 02-16-2021 01:13 PM

Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gosaints1 (Post 914575)
Hmmm, I view the draft as a gamble, from the very first selection to the very last, and regardless of team or coach or executive, they all make mistakes, and lots of them. Heck, Tom Brady almost fell completely out of the draft. Are we really trying to insinuate that, in retrospect, there were 198 draft choice mistakes ahead of a guy like Tom Brady? It’s a fair argument to make, that had Brady been drafted by the 1-15 Carolina Panthers team, then he might not be what he is today.

Bottom line, all teams make mistakes when it comes to drafting, and personnel selection is the biggest gamble of all, even for the best scouting teams. In retrospect, every move could be labeled a mistake. As for “improving”? Tell me how one improves on the ability to have foreknowledge of the future. Learning? There is no doubt that they’ve learned from the things they’ve done well, and those they haven’t, wrt drafts.

idk jp, a fair argument can be made that certain superstar players on other teams would have been failures on our team bc of lack of coaching or any other unique environmental considerations specific to each individual team. I’m not defending CSP’s drafting since he got here, heck I would even argue in your favor that he hasn’t had much success. But, you haven’t sold me on the idea that if he had chosen other people, the outcomes would have been measurably different. ie..., had the Saints drafted Tom Brady, would we have played in ten Superbowls? With our coaching at that time? lol, nah, I just can’t get on board with the idea that looking backwards logic will improve our foreknowledge thinking wrt improving drafting.

GeauxSaints, If it was a complete gamble, then we'd no need for scouts; some teams hire good, competent scouts, some hire based on nepotism (Saints have been in that in-between area)...

There's no question that a team(s) can reach (hmm), make a mistake, and those opportunities fall to the prepared teams that take advantage...

Some teams develop a draft plan, some sh*t their hat when the draft starts, and some have no draft plan at all; very few have good draft discipline (and they're the perennial contenders)...

Boston Saint 02-16-2021 02:06 PM

Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 914623)
They were a lot of missed opportunities, coaching and players, that put the team in that position - that's what Rugs means by making your own luck - at least that's my take on his post...

I get it and understand/and agree with what his meaning is. But saying you make your own luck implies that everything on the field is within your control. That simply is not true and there is an element of injuries or bad calls or weather conditions that fall into this category of “luck” that can’t be controlled. Sure the effort put forth by the players and coaches is the most important thing. But IMO it’s unrealistic (almost arrogant) to think that when going up against another, quality playoff team like Tampa this year or the Rams a few years ago that you can be and perform that much better than the other team that you can take getting screwed by the refs or having an in game injury out of the equation.

Another case in point was the playoff game at the Niners back in 2011 where Pierre Thomas took a head hit, fumbled and Niners got ball deep and scored in first quarter. Thomas is out for game, saints down 7-0 in a game we end up losing by less than a score on a last minute drive. Now, I call it bad luck that Thomas took a borderline dirty hit and left the game. I think this really hurt the Saints in the game. Could they have still won if say, Shanle does anything to stop Vernon Davis...sure they could (and should have). But that doesn’t change the bad luck of having Thomas knocked out just like it was bad luck Harris got knocked out against Tampa just like it was bad luck the refs didn’t call against the Rams. There was nothing the Saints did or didn’t do to make the luck that happened on those plays. But that’s just how I feel.


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