ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL...
 

Here me out...

So what we have seen played out in Tampa and before almost happened in Indy with Rivers...

Build your team O line and Defense. Every position every asset... avoid the young QB who will in 5 or so years start commanding 20-30 million contract.

One the you have all the parts minus the QB then make a play at a top 5 QB who isn't happy and is either in a contract year or wants traded.

Its like they are figuring this out and before long it will be like the NBA.

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I think it worked in Tampa because so many guys were willing to take a 1 year deal to make a run with Tom Brady. Any other QB, they might have looked elsewhere. Freakin' Gronk came out of retirement for that.

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Here's the funny thing - the Colts, the Bucs and now the Rams who seem to be locking into this approach - playoff teams yes, but none of them won their division last year. I'd like to see us stay away from this approach and capitalize on other teams getting desperate.

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The hit song Kick'em When They're Up, Kick'em When They're Down" From the band 20 - 20 Hindsight led by Mr. BOLDFONT From His Hit album I DID IT THE RIGHT WAY!!! :rofl: :rofl:

Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL...
 

NOTHING "NEW" ABOUT IT.
Dooms Day, Steel Curtain, Legion Of Boom,
In other words "Defense Wins Championships" Mahomes was held to Zero touch downs.

See: Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams,Brad Johnson, Phil Sims, Jeff Hosteller,Nick Foles last but not least Joe Flacco.

Like Duane Thomas said "If it's the ULTIMATE GAME, why do they play it again next year?"

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Personally, I liked the move to go get “the guy we evaluate very highly” wrt Marcus Davenport. That being said, in hindsight, it clearly appears to have been a bad move. That one draft move is not, imho, descriptive of an overall failure in personnel decisions/evaluations.

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Marcus "MINNEAPOLIS MIRACLE" WILLIAMS
THREE SPOT HENDRICKSON ever heard of Albert Haynesworth?

You can't lose playing this game: Pick a player the Saints "Could've" had at the same time they picked someone else. Watch both players careers then If the "Could've" Example: NICK FOLES has success!

Bash the Front Office: OH HOW YOU BASHED THE FRONT OFFICE FOR NOT PICKING HIM UP " You still want him now?

After all THAT'S THE "RIGHT WAY" RIGHT?

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Agreed, Monday Morning QB’ing on whom “we could have got” is a recipe for disaster. But, I do believe it is fair to look at a player’s portfolio or body of work as a standalone evaluation. For example, in a cost benefit analysis, was the Davenport move a success, based on his body of work comparative to the cost it took to get him? I’d argue no, it wasn’t a successful move. I do agree however that going back and comparing player to player from previous draft’s is a nonsensical argument.

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We had a stocked roster where one or two players could put us over the top. Payton tends to move up for the players who can fill a role in our system. Quality over quantity! I liked the move because Armstead is so fluid. No one knew he dinged up easily or would tear his Achilles.

We may take a different draft approach this year and actually trade back to get more ammunition. We need a lot of cheap contracts.

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Historically, it has not proven to be a good investment to offer multiple picks to move up, unless a franchise player comes along, like a Mahomes. We've had more.than our fair share of players whom didn't measure up to their draft picks cost. It's not the player's fault , but SP and Loomis for listening and pulling the trigger. With today's salaries , it's simply no longer worth mortgaging a team into salary cap hell. At some point you have to pay the Piper.

On the other hand, if SP knows the rulebook like BB, then in all likelihood we have another Tiffany or two... And then everything I just said carries less weight.

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What's more important Hit on all draft choices and/or hit with and FA or trade? Taysom Hill,Teddy Bridgewater (as I asked What is a WIN worth?) he provided 5 consecutive. Pierre Thomas, Deonte Harris, Marcus Callaway just a few of the FA "HITS"

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Fully understand, and agree. I also liked the move to go get Davenport, aka the guy we really liked. I can separate the reality of the situation now from the unknowns at the time the draft processes were in action. I won’t beat the coaches up over this one, imho, it was simply an aggressive move to get a guy that had/has tremendous upside..., but just hasn’t worked out well here, so far.

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Davenport is not a bust. Stop suggesting it. You can't predict future injuries.

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Use BOLD FONT and say it over and over and over and over and over.......

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Hmmm, I view the draft as a gamble, from the very first selection to the very last, and regardless of team or coach or executive, they all make mistakes, and lots of them. Heck, Tom Brady almost fell completely out of the draft. Are we really trying to insinuate that, in retrospect, there were 198 draft choice mistakes ahead of a guy like Tom Brady? It’s a fair argument to make, that had Brady been drafted by the 1-15 Carolina Panthers team, then he might not be what he is today.

Bottom line, all teams make mistakes when it comes to drafting, and personnel selection is the biggest gamble of all, even for the best scouting teams. In retrospect, every move could be labeled a mistake. As for “improving”? Tell me how one improves on the ability to have foreknowledge of the future. Learning? There is no doubt that they’ve learned from the things they’ve done well, and those they haven’t, wrt drafts.

idk jp, a fair argument can be made that certain superstar players on other teams would have been failures on our team bc of lack of coaching or any other unique environmental considerations specific to each individual team. I’m not defending CSP’s drafting since he got here, heck I would even argue in your favor that he hasn’t had much success. But, you haven’t sold me on the idea that if he had chosen other people, the outcomes would have been measurably different. ie..., had the Saints drafted Tom Brady, would we have played in ten Superbowls? With our coaching at that time? lol, nah, I just can’t get on board with the idea that looking backwards logic will improve our foreknowledge thinking wrt improving drafting.

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No doubt this is important, but I think a major overlooked factor is the timing of injuries. I don’t think Tampa wins if KC isn’t missing 3 O linemen and I don’t think they beat the Saints if Hill, Murray, Thomas, and Harris are healthy. Tampa had a late bye and got all their pieces healthy at the right moment. Throw in the obvious favoritism the refs gave them during the playoffs and boom, 7 rings for Brady.

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I agree on the injury and reffing front in terms of in the playoffs and vs KC. However, regardless of our Injury Status, I've seen this team come out flat in 4 straight playoff exits.

The playoff saints are a different team. Everything we do well during the regular season, inexplicably becomes a weakness in the playoffs and they look like they don't want to be there. No fire at all.

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That's what I see too. They like to go through the motions because they think they are so good that they can be winners without really trying. They have bought into the hype.

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Or we are simply unlucky as hell. One team has to lose. When we have been knocked out we haven't been blown out. It has always been a few key plays here or there. There isn't a player on any of those teams that weren't trying their asses off. A team has to lose and it was ours.

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Remind me again why the San Francisco fans are called the "Whiners" Cheese sales skyrocket during the off season in N.O.! Ask the Whole Meats Guy!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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You make you own luck my friend. :beatnik:

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You make you own luck my friend. :beatnik:

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I don’t think the Saints had anything to do with making the luck of the non PI call against the Rams. Just like I don’t the Packers had much to do with making the luck Tampa got against them on the PI call they got late in the NFCCG to clinch the game.

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I get it and understand/and agree with what his meaning is. But saying you make your own luck implies that everything on the field is within your control. That simply is not true and there is an element of injuries or bad calls or weather conditions that fall into this category of “luck” that can’t be controlled. Sure the effort put forth by the players and coaches is the most important thing. But IMO it’s unrealistic (almost arrogant) to think that when going up against another, quality playoff team like Tampa this year or the Rams a few years ago that you can be and perform that much better than the other team that you can take getting screwed by the refs or having an in game injury out of the equation.

Another case in point was the playoff game at the Niners back in 2011 where Pierre Thomas took a head hit, fumbled and Niners got ball deep and scored in first quarter. Thomas is out for game, saints down 7-0 in a game we end up losing by less than a score on a last minute drive. Now, I call it bad luck that Thomas took a borderline dirty hit and left the game. I think this really hurt the Saints in the game. Could they have still won if say, Shanle does anything to stop Vernon Davis...sure they could (and should have). But that doesn’t change the bad luck of having Thomas knocked out just like it was bad luck Harris got knocked out against Tampa just like it was bad luck the refs didn’t call against the Rams. There was nothing the Saints did or didn’t do to make the luck that happened on those plays. But that’s just how I feel.

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Exactly! It would be awesome if we played perfect in every playoff game. It would be awesome if we never suffered an injury and never turned the ball over. It would be awesome if we never missed a tackle or a block. But those things happen in virtually every game. You can pick out a play or two or three that could have made a difference by either team in every playoff game. We have been fortunate to have had the breaks go our way once throughout a post season. There are franchises that still to this date haven't had the same. All we can do is keep getting to the playoffs and hope those breaks go our way again.

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2010 Seattle blindsided us

2011 We spanked the Lions then SF speared Pierre, no flag, we couldn't cover the tight end and basically last team with the ball won.

2013 beat a good eagles team ON THE ROAD then lost by one score to the very good seahawks ON THE ROAD

2017. Last play fluke of historic proportion to an epic defense ON THE ROAD

2018. Rams. yes, the no call but we didn't finish them off

2019. you have an argument here. sloppy but we were missing key starters. credit minnesota's game plan

2020. we handle the bears like we should. Tampa comes in healthy, we're not. We make all the mistakes possible and give the game away from the beginning. Credit tampa's game plan.

So i don't think the saints are "different" in the playoffs. They've won and lost close games.

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Good points. The ball did bounce our way a lot in 2009. But, I still believe that You have to be in the right place for good things to happen.

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I think they are extremely different in the playoffs.

We have consistently been a low turnover offense, yet the playoffs come and they turn it over 4 times.

We consistently score redzone TD's in the regular season, yet settle for FG's in the playoffs and let teams hang around.

I see what you are saying, but all I really see are excuses for a team that has never lived up to its potential.

Good teams tackle Diggs in bounds.
Good teams score TD's and don't let the refs miss a call that decides the game.
And good teams do not only barely win against the Eagles in 2018 and Bears in 2020.

Our last 3 exits have all been at home, which dumbfounds me.

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Guess we're not a good team. Oh, well.

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As I said earlier, in the regular season yes, in the playoffs absolutely not.

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Every team in the playoffs are "good teams". Some happen to be "gooder" on any given day, however.

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Yes and No.

The Bears and the Redskins were not good teams, they were merely lucky to get there. The Bears were one dropped TD from leading at the half against us. Which at home especially, was pretty embarrassing on our part.

The 2010 Seahawks that beat us were definitely not a good team. I believe that also made us the only team in the playoffs to ever lose to an opponent with a losing record.

That stat that was mentioned recently tells the full story I believe. We are the only team in the Superbowl Era to win 49 games in 4 years and not appear in a Superbowl.

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As Bill Parcells once wisely quipped:

“You are what your record says you are”.

CSP and Drew Brees, as a combo, are 9-8 overall in the playoffs. Very simply, just a tad over .500. AG, I’m still not buying the “luck” excuse, lol. Luck obviously comes into play for ALL teams, therefore it’s an equal unknown, as the ball bounces oddly for everybody. I would argue the missed call wasn’t “bad luck”, it was incompetence. Other than that, the Diggs missed tackle, among others aren’t “bad luck” either. Failing to fall on a ball in the end zone for a safety instead of a TD isn’t bad luck either. I can continue on for hours, but I won’t.

But, that’s just how I see things.

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I remember Howie Long saying almost exactly this before the NFC Championship against the Vikings. He said the Vikings were a better team but, when its your year, its your year and the ball bounces your way.

And he was right. I have long believed the Vikings don't turn the ball over 5 times in that game the Saints lose by double digits.