Re: Saints release veteran receiver Emmanuel Sanders in cap-saving maneuver | Luke Johnson
 

But our “playmakers” didn’t make plays. Theirs did...especially in the RZ. Evans’s one catch was a RZ TD. Thomas couldn’t keep his feet in bounds on his red zone catch attempt. Cook fumbled and had his hands on one of the INTs. Their backup TE had more yards receiving than Cook without fumbling. Their RB group reached the end zone on Red Zone plays. The Saints didnt. If the Saints go up 14-0 with Hill and Murray helping in the red zone like they usually do instead of 6-0 then we have a totally different game. If the Saints D forces a FG instead of Letting up a TD on one of those drives then it’s a different game. It’s demonstrable that Tampa’s skill position players outplayed the Saints skill players. Especially when Harris was lost with...an injury. I’m not saying TOs didn’t hurt. But they could have been 3 and out punts and I still think the Bucs win based on the flow of the game and the performance of the players involved. Just my feeling and I respect yours.

Re: Saints release veteran receiver Emmanuel Sanders in cap-saving maneuver | Luke Johnson
 

You do realize that “if’s” are hypotheticals, and didn’t really occur. If a person’s aunt had a beard..., she might actually be that person’s uncle instead! lol. Or “could have been’s”. I was born a simple humble human being, but just think!! I “could have been” an invisible pachyderm. Sadly, I wasn’t.

I won’t beat our defense up for not stopping two red zone gifts to TB via int’s. One int winding up on our own 4 yard line, and the other on our own 20.

<btw> if you’re referring to the following play, the ball was deflected by David, before ever reaching Cook.


Lastly, disagreement =/= a lack of respect. It simply means that - seeing things differently.

Re: Saints release veteran receiver Emmanuel Sanders in cap-saving maneuver | Luke Johnson
 

My favorite selfish if starts with “if I had a Jerry Jones’ yacht at my full disposal”!

Indeed, TOs sucked in that game. No argument there. But All we can do is look at what happened providing we take out the “what ifs“. So let’s do that and see that Harris starts off red hot and was responsible for 2 big returns resulting in 9 points himself until a blocking call on the return was accepted. Then he (up to that time clearly the most dynamic player on the field) gets hurt and is lost in the first quarter for the rest of the game. Saints had to settle for FGs instead.

I could go on evaluating what happened every drive afterwards without the ifs, but my fingers are getting tired. Point is each play leads to another. Saints had chances for close TDs and they settled for FGs. Tampa had chances for close TDs and they got them. We can debate weather that was because Tampa had Better Offensive weapons available than the Saints or weather Tampa’s D performed better than the Saints D did in the Red zone. I don’t think it was Brees arm strength that did this...nor do I think it was zodiac 🤪. Nor do I think it was simply turnovers. I hear people argue that teams can fight through getting screwed by the refs. Well, then teams should be able to fight through TOs. The Saints had every chance to do so.

Tampa was a healthier, more prepared team that took advantages of the opportunities presented to them-offensively and defensively-to beat a very good Saints team, then very good Packers and Chiefs teams.

Re: Saints release veteran receiver Emmanuel Sanders in cap-saving maneuver | Luke Johnson
 

You can’t evaluate every “drive afterward” without using the “what if’s” in your scenario. The actual plays are historically accurate. The game actually did happen a certain way, and that way was a 30-20 loss with the Saints committing four turnovers. EVERYTHING else is a “what if”.

Re: Saints release veteran receiver Emmanuel Sanders in cap-saving maneuver | Luke Johnson
 

Ok, but by that logic, the fact that 4 TOs happened has no more impact than the fact Harris got hurt than the fact the game happened on Sunday.

Re: Saints release veteran receiver Emmanuel Sanders in cap-saving maneuver | Luke Johnson
 

Get ready to memorize a lot of new jersey numbers next year!

Re: Saints release veteran receiver Emmanuel Sanders in cap-saving maneuver | Luke Johnson
 

When I said “EVERYTHING else” is a “what if”. I was very specifically referring to you stating: “I could go on evaluating what happened every drive...”. I wasn’t referring to everything else in the entire universe is a “what if”. I was very specially stating that you “...evaluating what happened every drive...” would necessitate a “what if”. Why? Because the game is already in the books.

1) Both team played on Sunday, in exactly the same conditions.

2) Both teams played the exact same game, and were given the exact same opportunity for injuries.

3) Both teams were afforded the same playtime, roughly. 31:31 for the Bucs, and 28:29 for the Saints. One team committed four turnovers in that time period.

Three completely different entities there. Trying to compare turnover margin, which is quantitatively defined, to whether a game is played on any particular day is nonsensical to me, and not anything close resembling what I was trying to say.

My friend, we’ve hijacked this thread..., it’s my hope we can let it revert back to the topic at hand? The release of E.Sanders. My apologies folks.

Re: Saints release veteran receiver Emmanuel Sanders in cap-saving maneuver | Luke Johnson
 

I’m sorry, but you missed my point. I was taking out the “what if” scenarios when I ran through my evaluation of what happened until Harris got hurt. There were no what if’s there. He had two big returns. He got hurt. Saints got 6 points when they could have had 14. It happened. Just like During the game there were 4 plays where TOs happened. You seem To be attributing the outcome of the game on those 4 TO plays. I don’t disagree they were impactful. However I am not going to say they were the reason for the loss more so than not having Hill available would have been. Anyway, just passing thoughts around between Saints Fans. ! ✌️

Re: Saints release veteran receiver Emmanuel Sanders in cap-saving maneuver | Luke Johnson
 

Both teams entered the game with their QB dealing with a torn rotator cuff.

Both teams entered the game with a starting QB still dealing with the aftereffects of eleven rib fractures.

Both teams entered the game with their backup QB who went 3-1 during the season out due to injury.

Both teams entered the game with their second leading yards from scrimmage player out due to injury.

Oh, wait! They didn't, did they? Nevermind.

Re: Saints release veteran receiver Emmanuel Sanders in cap-saving maneuver | Luke Johnson
 

On 12/07/2020 at exactly 8:40am you made the following statement, while we were discussing Drew Brees’ injuries and if he was healthy enough to play:

“That makes no sense. If he is healed, he is healthy. He should be as healthy as he was prior to the first game of the season with the rest.”

You went on and on and on about how there were specific protocols in place to ensure that a player isn’t being started when he is seriously injured, claiming multiple levels of protection.

Re: Saints release veteran receiver Emmanuel Sanders in cap-saving maneuver | Luke Johnson
 

So I was wrong. Or not totally right. Brees was obviously able to play, but affected by injuries. As did and was Michael Thomas. But what does that have to do with the Saints coming into the game dealing with several significant injuries which you seem to totally dismiss as being no factor in the loss? I don't get your point.

Re: Saints release veteran receiver Emmanuel Sanders in cap-saving maneuver | Luke Johnson
 

ALL teams INCLUDING Tampa Bay had injuries. Let’s look at a final injury report for that game:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...go/ar-BB1cNmyQ

Neither Brady, nor Brees were on that list, Godwin was but CGM wasn’t, but clearly all four were hampered by injuries. Bottom line, both team’s were beat up. All teams at that time of the year are, it’s the exception to the rule, the extremely rare exception, to find a starter who isn’t beat the heck up when going into wild card/divisional/championship weekend. Heck Tom Brady had knee surgery immediately following the season’s end.

Jared Cook was listed on that injury report. Do you believe he deserves a break for his fumble bc of a back issue? Many here intimate that Cook is responsible for the Saints loss, as the game swung on that fumble, so to speak. While simultaneously ignoring the first turnover of the game, the Drew Brees int that wound up on our own 4 yard line. Followed very quickly (4 seconds of game time later) by a TB TD.

I don’t understand the distinction. Why does Cook get the blame..., while DB#9 gets a “pass”. Turnovers, all four of them combined, were the deciding factor.

Re: Saints release veteran receiver Emmanuel Sanders in cap-saving maneuver | Luke Johnson
 

Woohoo! Brady had surgery after the season. A dozen players on every roster have some sort of surgery after the season. Just as all injuries are not equal, neither are all surgeries. Was Brady's to his throwing shoulder as was with Brees'? No. His knee. Big difference there.

Does Brees get a pass? No. His passing was obviously severely hampered by that torn rotator cuff. Payton no doubt was aware of Brees' limitations, but logically felt he still gave the undermanned Saints team their best shot at winning. I put the blame on Brees' injured shoulder as much as I do Cook's fumble, and both Taysom and Murray being relegated to the sideline, and Harris' injury early on in the game, and Michael Thomas' leg and ankle injury. They were all deciding factors as much as Brees' injured shoulder that could have contributed to a couple of the turnovers.

Yes, every team is beat up, but but one team was FAR more beat up than the other. Explain to me how the "beat up" Bucs went on to beat the Packers in Green Bay the following week. Was it turnovers there too? The Bucs had more turnovers than the Packers.

Explain to me how that "beat up" Bucs team went on to defeat the reigning Super Bowl Champs in the next game. They were healthier and more complete than were the Saints and the managed only nine points against the "beat up" Bucs.