Saints have a surprisingly low projected 2021 win total

Boston Saint · 04-06-2021, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by jnormand

It's just his opinion. JW has to prove it. I'm not a believer in him right now either. The guy is an interception machine and doesn't seem very intelligent.

Why would he not want him to succeed?

I'll tell you this, I've never been a fan of the guy. Ever. Big deal.

But if he comes in and tears it up, I'll eat crow. But imo, if the front office saw something more in him, he'd have a bigger contract. Not a 1 year prove it deal.

Just my 2 cents.

I have no problem with doubting Winston. I doubt him too. But VD has gone way overboard in his criticism IMO. He’s exaggerated Winston’s turnovers, falsely claimed he was benched for Hill, makes hyperbolic statements about going undefeated and ignores any valid statistical observation about his performance when compared to other QBs. Doubting is one thing, blindly repeating “he sucks” with no other input is a personal grudge.

voodooido · 04-06-2021, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I have no problem with doubting Winston. I doubt him too. But VD has gone way overboard in his criticism IMO. He’s exaggerated Winston’s turnovers, falsely claimed he was benched for Hill, makes hyperbolic statements about going undefeated and ignores any valid statistical observation about his performance when compared to other QBs. Doubting is one thing, blindly repeating “he sucks” with no other input is a personal grudge.

Ok his turnovers are easily looked up. 30 ints his last year starting. That’s all I need to know. And as him being benched for hill, what would you call it? He played like crap and hill replaced him

AsylumGuido · 04-06-2021, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by voodooido

Ok his turnovers are easily looked up. 30 ints his last year starting. That’s all I need to know. And as him being benched for hill, what would you call it? He played like crap and hill replaced him

You can't "bench" a QB that never started a game. Brees and Hill are the only two QB's that started a game for the Saints last season. Before the season Payton laid out the plan to start Hill if Brees was unable to go, but planned to bring in Winston if Brees got injured during a game. That is exactly how it played out.

It made perfect sense. Hill practiced all week every week for his role as Joker. Winston took second team snaps. In a given week Winston was better prepared to take over mid-game based upon that week's game plan. On the other hand, Hill was much more entrenched into the full playbook and it made sense for him to be the starter if Brees was unable to go.

As for Winston's 30 picks, it was double his average from previous seasons and came under Bruce Arians whose philosophy was to take chances downfield.

Boston Saint · 04-06-2021, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by voodooido

Ok his turnovers are easily looked up. 30 ints his last year starting. That’s all I need to know. And as him being benched for hill, what would you call it? He played like crap and hill replaced him

If that’s “All you need to know” then that’s ignorant and short sided. Winston’s 30 Int season came with 33 TDs, 5000 yards and a 7-9 record. In 2005, Favre had 29 INTs (that’s only 1 less BTW) with only 20 TDS, less than 4,000 yards and a 4-12 record. Would your “all you need to know” attitude thrown in the towel on Favre?

voodooido · 04-06-2021, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

If that’s “All you need to know” then that’s ignorant and short sided. Winston’s 30 Int season came with 33 TDs, 5000 yards and a 7-9 record. In 2005, Favre had 29 INTs (that’s only 1 less BTW) with only 20 TDS, less than 4,000 yards and a 4-12 record. Would your “all you need to know” attitude thrown in the towel on Favre?

And the next season Tom Brady won the super bowl with TB

AsylumGuido · 04-06-2021, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by voodooido

And the next season Tom Brady won the super bowl with TB

... after they abandoned Arians' offense and went with Brady's. Not to mention the fact that Brady may be the best QB to ever play the game. I'm no fan of Winston's either, but to say he's trash is simply incorrect. He could easily start for half the teams in the league.

subguy · 04-06-2021, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

... after they abandoned Arians' offense and went with Brady's. Not to mention the fact that Brady may be the best QB to ever play the game. I'm no fan of Winston's either, but to say he's trash is simply incorrect. He could easily start for half the teams in the league.

This is true, but unfortunate we may in that 1/2 of the teams that may have to endure him starting. I will gladly admit I am wrong about being skeptical of Winston if he proves other wise. Hill or Winston, two mediocre options for the Saints. This has nothing to do with athletic ability, both have that.

Boston Saint · 04-06-2021, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by voodooido

And the next season Tom Brady won the super bowl with TB

This has nothing to do with the Favre Comparison question I put to you which you avoided. But, if you want to point out that Brady (by most measures the greatest QB ever) won a SB with a Tampa team that had improved WRs, RBs, OL and D as evidence that Winston is a “trash” QB, I will again call that an ignorant statement. Would you care to answer my question about why Winston’s terrible 30 Int season with a net +4 TDS was so much worse than Favres 29 with a -9? Or Elway’s -7? Or any of the other SB winning QBs I pointed out in previous threads that clearly had worse seasons (Brees first two years vs Winston’s for example) than ANY season Winston has had? No, you don’t. You are just going to pull out the “He Sucks” narrative and hope you are right.

voodooido · 04-06-2021, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

This has nothing to do with the Favre Comparison question I put to you which you avoided. But, if you want to point out that Brady (by most measures the greatest QB ever) won a SB with a Tampa team that had improved WRs, RBs, OL and D as evidence that Winston is a “trash” QB, I will again call that an ignorant statement. Would you care to answer my question about why Winston’s terrible 30 Int season with a net +4 TDS was so much worse than Favres 29 with a -9? Or Elway’s -7? Or any of the other SB winning QBs I pointed out in previous threads that clearly had worse seasons (Brees first two years vs Winston’s for example) than ANY season Winston has had? No, you don’t. You are just going to pull out the “He Sucks” narrative and hope you are right.

If JW came to NO with the same credentials Farve has I would welcome him with open arms. Instead, he comes with a vet minimum 1yr deal because no one else wanted him. I don’t want him or Hill starting but I’d pick Hill over him all day. I want the Saints future to be drafted this year. Deep qb class will make someone fall to 28.

Boston Saint · 04-06-2021, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by voodooido

Instead, he comes with a vet minimum 1yr deal because no one else wanted him.

Not true. He had offers from other teams he turned down. Another sign of your unwarranted evaluation of him.

04-06-2021, 06:50 AM	#1
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Saints have a surprisingly low projected 2021 win total Originally Posted by jnormand It's just his opinion. JW has to prove it. I'm not a believer in him right now either. The guy is an interception machine and doesn't seem very intelligent. Why would he not want him to succeed? I'll tell you this, I've never been a fan of the guy. Ever. Big deal. But if he comes in and tears it up, I'll eat crow. But imo, if the front office saw something more in him, he'd have a bigger contract. Not a 1 year prove it deal. Just my 2 cents. I have no problem with doubting Winston. I doubt him too. But VD has gone way overboard in his criticism IMO. He’s exaggerated Winston’s turnovers, falsely claimed he was benched for Hill, makes hyperbolic statements about going undefeated and ignores any valid statistical observation about his performance when compared to other QBs. Doubting is one thing, blindly repeating “he sucks” with no other input is a personal grudge. K Major and rezburna like this.

04-06-2021, 08:41 AM	#2
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,819	Re: Saints have a surprisingly low projected 2021 win total Originally Posted by Boston Saint I have no problem with doubting Winston. I doubt him too. But VD has gone way overboard in his criticism IMO. He’s exaggerated Winston’s turnovers, falsely claimed he was benched for Hill, makes hyperbolic statements about going undefeated and ignores any valid statistical observation about his performance when compared to other QBs. Doubting is one thing, blindly repeating “he sucks” with no other input is a personal grudge. Ok his turnovers are easily looked up. 30 ints his last year starting. That’s all I need to know. And as him being benched for hill, what would you call it? He played like crap and hill replaced him
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,819

04-06-2021, 08:56 AM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: Saints have a surprisingly low projected 2021 win total Originally Posted by voodooido Ok his turnovers are easily looked up. 30 ints his last year starting. That’s all I need to know. And as him being benched for hill, what would you call it? He played like crap and hill replaced him You can't "bench" a QB that never started a game. Brees and Hill are the only two QB's that started a game for the Saints last season. Before the season Payton laid out the plan to start Hill if Brees was unable to go, but planned to bring in Winston if Brees got injured during a game. That is exactly how it played out. It made perfect sense. Hill practiced all week every week for his role as Joker. Winston took second team snaps. In a given week Winston was better prepared to take over mid-game based upon that week's game plan. On the other hand, Hill was much more entrenched into the full playbook and it made sense for him to be the starter if Brees was unable to go. As for Winston's 30 picks, it was double his average from previous seasons and came under Bruce Arians whose philosophy was to take chances downfield. Boston Saint likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

04-06-2021, 09:06 AM	#4
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Saints have a surprisingly low projected 2021 win total Originally Posted by voodooido Ok his turnovers are easily looked up. 30 ints his last year starting. That’s all I need to know. And as him being benched for hill, what would you call it? He played like crap and hill replaced him If that’s “All you need to know” then that’s ignorant and short sided. Winston’s 30 Int season came with 33 TDs, 5000 yards and a 7-9 record. In 2005, Favre had 29 INTs (that’s only 1 less BTW) with only 20 TDS, less than 4,000 yards and a 4-12 record. Would your “all you need to know” attitude thrown in the towel on Favre? K Major and rezburna like this.

04-06-2021, 11:42 AM	#5
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,819	Re: Saints have a surprisingly low projected 2021 win total Originally Posted by Boston Saint If that’s “All you need to know” then that’s ignorant and short sided. Winston’s 30 Int season came with 33 TDs, 5000 yards and a 7-9 record. In 2005, Favre had 29 INTs (that’s only 1 less BTW) with only 20 TDS, less than 4,000 yards and a 4-12 record. Would your “all you need to know” attitude thrown in the towel on Favre? And the next season Tom Brady won the super bowl with TB
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,819

04-06-2021, 11:54 AM	#6
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: Saints have a surprisingly low projected 2021 win total Originally Posted by voodooido And the next season Tom Brady won the super bowl with TB ... after they abandoned Arians' offense and went with Brady's. Not to mention the fact that Brady may be the best QB to ever play the game. I'm no fan of Winston's either, but to say he's trash is simply incorrect. He could easily start for half the teams in the league.

04-06-2021, 10:30 PM	#7
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,099	Re: Saints have a surprisingly low projected 2021 win total Originally Posted by AsylumGuido ... after they abandoned Arians' offense and went with Brady's. Not to mention the fact that Brady may be the best QB to ever play the game. I'm no fan of Winston's either, but to say he's trash is simply incorrect. He could easily start for half the teams in the league. This is true, but unfortunate we may in that 1/2 of the teams that may have to endure him starting. I will gladly admit I am wrong about being skeptical of Winston if he proves other wise. Hill or Winston, two mediocre options for the Saints. This has nothing to do with athletic ability, both have that. jnormand and Rugby Saint II like this.

04-06-2021, 12:03 PM	#8
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Saints have a surprisingly low projected 2021 win total Originally Posted by voodooido And the next season Tom Brady won the super bowl with TB This has nothing to do with the Favre Comparison question I put to you which you avoided. But, if you want to point out that Brady (by most measures the greatest QB ever) won a SB with a Tampa team that had improved WRs, RBs, OL and D as evidence that Winston is a “trash” QB, I will again call that an ignorant statement. Would you care to answer my question about why Winston’s terrible 30 Int season with a net +4 TDS was so much worse than Favres 29 with a -9? Or Elway’s -7? Or any of the other SB winning QBs I pointed out in previous threads that clearly had worse seasons (Brees first two years vs Winston’s for example) than ANY season Winston has had? No, you don’t. You are just going to pull out the “He Sucks” narrative and hope you are right.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

04-06-2021, 05:12 PM	#9
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,819	Re: Saints have a surprisingly low projected 2021 win total Originally Posted by Boston Saint This has nothing to do with the Favre Comparison question I put to you which you avoided. But, if you want to point out that Brady (by most measures the greatest QB ever) won a SB with a Tampa team that had improved WRs, RBs, OL and D as evidence that Winston is a “trash” QB, I will again call that an ignorant statement. Would you care to answer my question about why Winston’s terrible 30 Int season with a net +4 TDS was so much worse than Favres 29 with a -9? Or Elway’s -7? Or any of the other SB winning QBs I pointed out in previous threads that clearly had worse seasons (Brees first two years vs Winston’s for example) than ANY season Winston has had? No, you don’t. You are just going to pull out the “He Sucks” narrative and hope you are right. If JW came to NO with the same credentials Farve has I would welcome him with open arms. Instead, he comes with a vet minimum 1yr deal because no one else wanted him. I don’t want him or Hill starting but I’d pick Hill over him all day. I want the Saints future to be drafted this year. Deep qb class will make someone fall to 28. jnormand likes this.
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,819

04-06-2021, 05:16 PM	#10
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Saints have a surprisingly low projected 2021 win total Originally Posted by voodooido Instead, he comes with a vet minimum 1yr deal because no one else wanted him. Not true. He had offers from other teams he turned down. Another sign of your unwarranted evaluation of him.