Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

We all want to steal talent in the draft, like we did with Kamara. While this guy was speedily trending up in the DE rankings pre-draft, there is chance we did this with this kid. He was a DT converted to a DE. His numbers for such a short stint at DE are eyeopening. He has a wingspan of a 747 (what NFL hall of famer had such a similar wingspan?) . And most importantly, his IQ is off the charts.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

PFF Grade

R1 (28) NEW ORLEANS SAINTS: EDGE PAYTON TURNER, HOUSTON

Pick Grade: Below Average

Turner might be the biggest surprise first-round pick thus far. He broke out on a small sample in 2020 against subpar competition with a 90.0 pass-rush grade across four starts but has a coveted physical profile. He’s 6-foot-6 and 270 pounds with 35-inch arms and plays a physical game. Turner is also a versatile piece with impressive bend for his size. It’s a risky bet that could pay off big for the Saints, but there were other directions they should have gone here.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

I said the likelihood of him being there. The reason I bring that up is, as it’s been pointed out, the highest any draft speculation had him going was 60 according to Chris. Obviously it’s an Inexact science, but so is horse racing and I would take a person’s advice that is knowledgeable at the track vs a novice.

They could have taken the risk of drafting another player(one of more need since, as best, he will be part of a rotation at DE and the team is in need of a good LB say) at 28 and trading up in the second for Payton. By most accounts, they overpaid.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

The person who's advice you are taking is a novice as compared to those that actually do the real drafting. That's the point. You are placing your trust in someone who is underqualified based upon lack of resources and access.

And as for those "most accounts", those are the same people.

You are proposing that the Saints draft for need over drafting who they have determined is the best player available. I certainly hope they never do that.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Bottom line is it smells to me of Baptiste, Davenport and other “reaches” the team has taken on draft prospects that were surprise moves according to draft analysts. I felt good about Lattimore pick at the time. I don’t feel good about this one. Maybe I’m wrong and they hit on a Kamara.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

No I’m not. You’re wrong

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

You are looking at a description of a rose to ascertain your smell. Those that make the picks have actually held that rose in their hands and experienced the fragrance themselves.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

The smell of roses is not what I detect from your posts Guido. It’s the manure they grow in.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Yep. And I also hate how it's basically Payton/Loomis admitting they blew it on the Davenport pick. The whole thing's just frustrating, and disappointing when there's obvious massive holes at CB2 & OLB. I'm sure they'll still address those holes on Day 2/3, but it's not going to be a first round blue chip talent we wanted to see there.

The upside at least, is it still addressed D and at a coveted position. And unlike Davenport, at least Turner has drive and works hard. I'm not going to try to convince myself I like this pick because that'll just annoy me...but I'll at least leave it as a wait & see, he could work out well and be a solid player for us.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Take that PFF grade on Turner with a grain of salt.

They've been wrong a lot in their evaluations of 1st rounders over the years.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

What makes you think Turner is a replacement for Davenport? I expect Davenport to be around for years and to be a force. Turner is filling Hendrickson's void, instead.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

To play devil’s advocate, Hendrickson was filling Davenport’s void so it only stands to reason that Turner will be doing the same as Davenport has never been healthy.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

The DE's play a rotation. They will continue to play a rotation. We'll see Jordan, Davenport, Turner, and Granderson, just as we saw Jordan, Davenport, Hendrickson, and Granderson.

The difference is that I see Turner as having far more upside than Hendrickson. You know he got his nickname T-Rex because of his short arms, right?

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Our DE’s don’t really play a rotation. Our DT’s sub in and out based on down and distance. Cam Jordan plays damn near every snap and the other DE spot has just been filled by role players because we haven’t found the right guy. I’m thinking Turner is the answer.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

You have Jordan. You signed Davenport’s 5th year option. You sign Kpassagnon, a 6’ 7” physical freak as a free agent. Then draft another DE project in the first round when he was from a non power conference and not rated as a first round pick. Spin that all you want, Putting it kindly it’s a questionable pick.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Here's their snap counts for 2020:

Cameron Jordan	DE	0	0%	816	78.01%
Trey Hendrickson	DE	0	0%	558	53.35%
Marcus Davenport	DE	0	0%	374	35.76%
Carl Granderson	DE	0	0%	291	27.82%

Looks like a rotation to me.

And Payton even references the rotation in his interview:

Last year, when you drafted (Cesar) Ruiz you said, we did not draft him to sit. Is that something you could say about (Payton) Turner, like a guy you could see contribute?

"He'll play and earn those reps his first year. I think we've always done a really good job at developing a rotation and working with typically a good gameday number of eight (defensive linemen) usually. So we'll have a clear vision for his role."

At the same time you guys also picked up the option on Marcus Davenport, obviously there's room for three defensive ends to play in that rotation. Do you feel like he has a lot of room still to grow?

"Look, there will be more than three defensive ends. These guys, if they have the traits that we feel like they have, we have more depth and we feel like it's like, look it's a passing game. And we feel like it's an important position."

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

It wasn't a question in their minds and theirs are the only ones that carry any weight.

I understand that you don't understand. You are basing your opinion on what you read from others that don't make real decisions.

:D

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Guido doesn’t like it when people form opinions. He likes to blindly follow the facts. At least the ones he can cherry pick to make the Saints seem perfect in his mind.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

In my opinion you just gave a great reason for the pick. In a division with slow QB'S the Saints have huge, athletic monsters on the D-line. That's the recipe for winning and the Giants proved that when they kept the Patriots from having an undefeated season.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

I admit, I'm a bitter Saints fan but I can see Davenport balling out this season and another team will pick him up next year... just like Hendrickson.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Yup. Ya' gotta hate facts.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

At least we picked up his option so we have him at least through 2022. But, all the more reason to get another DE.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Fairpoint... a la Mark ingram. Both Ingram and Daveport are players we overspent on in terms of draft capital vs what we got in return on investment.

Turner may be our next Cameron Jordan. If you compare his bio vs that of the Penn St DE rated higher that went shortly after, you'd probably reach the very same conclusions, even without the benefit of the pre-craft scouting work the Saints put in.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Whether Turner was the right player only time will tell, just like every draft pick, but the strategy was certainly a good one. Not to mention we have one if not the best def line coaches in the league.

I'm anxious to see what direction we move on Day 2 & 3 of the draft.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Possibly. Yet On most defensive plays for the saints there are 2 DEs. There are usually 2 or more LBs as well. If you can’t understand the logic of people that question why there are now 4 functional DEs on the roster with only 1 1/2 functional LBs on the roster then I can’t help you. It’s pretty obvious.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

The thing about Kamara , we moved up to get him in the 3rd round is not like moving up in the 1st rd that we all think Davenport should have made more waves. If Kamara was a bust had not made the team it would have been o well we didn’t loose 2 first rd picks , but Davenport is not a bust (Yet) I’ll determine that after this season.[emoji872]


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Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

I've been high on Davenport his whole career ("if only he could stay healthy..") until mid last year. Dude finally put together a string of games...and did nothing. I think he's got a bit of that Johnathan Sullivan-vibe in the sense he just doesn't have that hunger or love for the game (at least Turner has the drive). I just don't see him getting to that next level I always envisioned him hitting until last season.

I'll happily be wrong though, I like your prediction better. I just don't see it happening at this point. Guess I just saw this move as the Saints trying to move on and admit they messed up in 2018 Draft (I know they picked up his option, but I see it more as a "one last chance" type move). We'll see how it all shakes out...

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

They're bringing the "NASCAR" package back!

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Maybe so. I don’t see that helping to slow Pitts down though.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Bust like Davenport. The Saints needed a CB, LB, and DT . The next pick will be an OT.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Sheldon Rankins
Michael Thomas
Vonn Bell
David Onyemata
Daniel Lasco

Marshon Lattimore
Ryan Ramczyk
Marcus Williams
Alvin Kamara
Alex Anzalone
Trey Hendrickson
Al-Quadin Muhammad


Marcus Davenport (+2019 1st)
Tre'Quan Smith
Rick Leonard
Natrell Jamerson
Kamrin Moore
Boston Scott
Will Clapp

Erik McCoy
Chauncey Gardner-Johnson
Saquan Hampton
Alize Mack
Kaden Elliss


Cesar Ruiz
Zack Baun
Adam Trautman
Tommy Stevens


Drafting since 2016

Feels they started believing the hype after 2017 and that they are so much clever that other teams. Since that 2017 draft there is only 2 players you can call a out and out success in McCoy and CGJ. Trautman may or may not progress as a starter.


When you want to throw so much cap at just a few very special players you need to be finding solid starting level guys in the draft.


Free agents next year

QB
Winston
Hill

LT
Terron Armstead

RT
Ryan Ramczyk

CB
Lattimore


FS
M. Williams


DE
Carl Granderson

DT
Shy Tuttle


All bar Hill/Winston and Granderson expected to start this year

Cap liabilities in 2022 $188ml with only 30 players

Yeah some will say the 2023 cap will rocket but so will salaries of every player in the league.

The Saints are currently set to pay
Armstead 13ml
Hill 8.9ml
Brees 11.5ml
Winston 3m

Not to be on the roster in 2022, $36.4 million of the cap in dead money.
Even if they resign Armstead,Hill and Winston you only push that forward.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

I have no issue with drafting another DE, I just don't think he was the best option at the time.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

I reserve judgement until the whole draft is done, because it has to be viewed in its entirety along with the following UDFA signings.

I didn't spend any time this year learning about the players entering the draft, so I'm not disappointed by the pick as I have no vested interest in any of the players. Furthermore, I'm actually happy they stayed in their spot and picked the BPA.

Some of the comments here are pretty hyperbole, and while I understand that people are very emotional about everything that has to do with the Saints - I'd wish folks could be more relaxed about it all.

Here I am relaxing after the sauna at my lakeside cabin in Finland drinking beer, wearing a Saints' jersey and waiting for the draft to continue - excited to see who'll join the Saints.

:bng:

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

The pick was one of need. Maybe not the biggest need. The limited film I’ve seen has me excited. Fans always think they’re the experts. I always wait for judgement. Just glad we didn’t trade up for a qb.

And I can’t help but laugh at those calling Davenport a bust. It’s obvious you don’t watch football.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Deuce put a out tweet right after the draft ended. Three consecutive DEs taken after Turner.

Buffalo, Ravens & Tampa were all eyeing him with a strong possibility of selecting at the end of the first rd.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Well that’s just it... I despised Jayson Oweh as a prospect. He doesn’t have a single pass rush move lol. I’m just happy we didn’t take him.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Do you have your own island like so many of the locals there?

I've visited Helsinki twice, mostly for business, got a tour of some of the islands and surroundings. It's lovely in Finland. The company I used to work for is based there.

Re: Saints draft Houston DE Payton Turner with first-round pick
 

Boston ,Mattie asre wipe won’t have time to throw to pitts or anyone else if they didn’t upgrade there o-line, to me they got greedy at 4th pick


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