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jeanpierre 05-10-2021 12:23 PM
Re: Saints projected to receive three comp picks in 2022 NFL draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920483)
I am so glad that you brought up the 2017 draft, JP! We had seven (7) picks in that draft and six of the seven picks were in the top three rounds! The loan pick outside of the first three rounds (6th for DE Muhahhud) was the only one of the bunch not to develop into starter material This supports the premise that moving out of the latter rounds into the upper rounds gives more chance for success. Beyond the very occasional Colston type hit in a late round, the Saints success has come in the top three rounds FAR more consistently than later.

2006 was a successful anomaly in the annals of Saints drafting with eight picks. Not only did they get lucky with Colston late, but Strief, as well. As the old saying goes, a blind hog can find an acorn. Reggie Bush and Roman Harper were successful picks in that draft per their round one and two selections. Jahri Evans was a pleasant surprise in round four. The three remaining players selected in rounds five and six played a disappointing THREE total games between them in a Saints uniform. But, not bad for the pre-Ireland era.
*lone

And you're wrong, Muhammad did develop as he was for the Colts what Trey What's His Name (As you so disrespectfully refer) Hendrickson-role...

Also, the Saints did learn their lesson the next year in finally releasing an old, incapable veteran in favor of Granderson, who took advantage of his snaps...

Sean is slowly learning as a coach in the NFL, you do have to put in the time and coach the rookies up as well, as it does pay off...

AsylumGuido 05-10-2021 12:28 PM
Re: Saints projected to receive three comp picks in 2022 NFL draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 920482)
Well, for one example, when it comes to the pass rush of a 4-3 front, you've got to have six-seven guys rotating, staying fresh vs better offensive lines...

Last year for the Saints was a great example where we had all four of our DEs rotating in no more than a 70/30 split, and the DTs were nearly the same...

And that example showed quantity was every bit as important and effective as quality...
That four DE rotation matches perfectly the draft strategy I propose. Three of the four were drafted in the first three rounds (Jordan, Davenport in the 1st, Hendrickson in the 3rd) and the fourth (Granderson) was a UDFA, just as I pointed out are statistically equivalent success-wise to the longshots from rounds four through seven.

:bng:

AsylumGuido 05-10-2021 12:32 PM
Re: Saints projected to receive three comp picks in 2022 NFL draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 920484)
*lone

And you're wrong, Muhammad did develop as he was for the Colts what Trey What's His Name (As you so disrespectfully refer) Hendrickson-role...

Also, the Saints did learn their lesson the next year in finally releasing an old, incapable veteran in favor of Granderson, who took advantage of his snaps...

Sean is slowly learning as a coach in the NFL, you do have to put in the time and coach the rookies up as well, as it does pay off...
Thank you for the spelling correction! Too bad Muhammad didn't help the Saints.

Yes, 2017 was a tremendous draft class, not based upon the number of picks, but upon the top heavy rounds in which the picks were taken.

gosaints1 05-10-2021 01:03 PM
Re: Saints projected to receive three comp picks in 2022 NFL draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 920484)
*lone

And you're wrong, Muhammad did develop as he was for the Colts what Trey What's His Name (As you so disrespectfully refer) Hendrickson-role...

Also, the Saints did learn their lesson the next year in finally releasing an old, incapable veteran in favor of Granderson, who took advantage of his snaps...

Sean is slowly learning as a coach in the NFL, you do have to put in the time and coach the rookies up as well, as it does pay off...
I like it, draft and then develop, who would have thunk it to be that simple. One addition though, let your developmental players see time on the football field, in actual games, and not just on special teams. If you’re “developmental” players take years to reach maturity..., then you’re effectively developing other team’s players.

Let em’ play!

Trey Hendrickson drafted in 2017, didn’t start until 2019, only starting three games then. Why?

jeanpierre 05-10-2021 02:33 PM
Re: Saints projected to receive three comp picks in 2022 NFL draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920486)
Thank you for the spelling correction! Too bad Muhammad didn't help the Saints.

Yes, 2017 was a tremendous draft class, not based upon the number of picks, but upon the top heavy rounds in which the picks were taken.
Okay, by that logic, what three do you get rid of out of the 2017 class?

Lattimore, Ramczyk, Williams, Kamara, Anzalone, Hendrickson?


With regards to Day 3 picks, dismissing those picks as little to no value is simply short-sided and wrong...

Are the Saints as successful without some of these players taken in the later rounds?
  • RG Jahri Evans, R4

  • WRx Marques Colston, R7

  • RT Zach Strief, R7

  • LT Jermon Bushrod, R4

  • LG Carl Nicks, R5

  • P Thomas Morstead, R5

  • WRz Kenny Stills, R5

  • NT Tyeler Davison, R5

  • DT David Onyemata, R4

  • DE Al-Quadin Muhammad, R6

  • RB Boston Scott, R6

  • LB Kaden Elliss, R7

In fact, many of the early drafts were salvaged because of Day 3 picks...

jeanpierre 05-10-2021 02:39 PM
Re: Saints projected to receive three comp picks in 2022 NFL draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gosaints1 (Post 920488)
I like it, draft and then develop, who would have thunk it to be that simple. One addition though, let your developmental players see time on the football field, in actual games, and not just on special teams. If you’re “developmental” players take years to reach maturity..., then you’re effectively developing other team’s players.

Let em’ play!

Trey Hendrickson drafted in 2017, didn’t start until 2019, only starting three games then. Why?
Well, remember all my Saints history when Jim Finks, Jim Mora would draft, develop players only to let them go to other teams as rookie contracts expired...

No salary cap then, small market, Tom Benson was super stingy; Rickey Jackson once demolished Tommy-Boy's prized conference table because of low-balling...

What I'm saying is you take players on and you kinda gauge when they should be taken snaps, starting based on where you take them in the draft...

First Round should start Game 1, Second Round should start sometime Year 1 or be in a rotation, Round 3~5 should be taken moderate snap loads Year 2...

Rounds 6 and 7, yeah punters, kickers you want under contractual obligation and special team guys that can be developed and possibly retained if you hit gold...

gosaints1 05-10-2021 04:13 PM
Re: Saints projected to receive three comp picks in 2022 NFL draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 920495)
Okay, by that logic, what three do you get rid of out of the 2017 class?

Lattimore, Ramczyk, Williams, Kamara, Anzalone, Hendrickson?


With regards to Day 3 picks, dismissing those picks as little to no value is simply short-sided and wrong...

Are the Saints as successful without some of these players taken in the later rounds?
  • RG Jahri Evans, R4

  • WRx Marques Colston, R7

  • RT Zach Strief, R7

  • LT Jermon Bushrod, R4

  • LG Carl Nicks, R5

  • P Thomas Morstead, R5

  • WRz Kenny Stills, R5

  • NT Tyeler Davison, R5

  • DT David Onyemata, R4

  • DE Al-Quadin Muhammad, R6

  • RB Boston Scott, R6

  • LB Kaden Elliss, R7

In fact, many of the early drafts were salvaged because of Day 3 picks...
Don’t forget UDFA guys like Pierre Thomas! Lance Moore, Josh Hill, Chris Ivory. The Saints have had some nice success with undrafted players. Heck, iirc Jake Delhomme and Tom Dempsey were undrafted. I know I’m leaving out some, maybe Sammy Knight(?), and for that I’m sorry. I’ll take Pierre Thomas over Ricky Williams, Reggie Bush AND Mark Ingram, combined. Nothing wrong with the other three, but I’m very fond of unheralded talent that just gets work done without drama.

And no, this team wouldn’t have had as much success without those guys you’ve listed.

AsylumGuido 05-10-2021 05:09 PM
Re: Saints projected to receive three comp picks in 2022 NFL draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 920495)
Okay, by that logic, what three do you get rid of out of the 2017 class?

Lattimore, Ramczyk, Williams, Kamara, Anzalone, Hendrickson?


With regards to Day 3 picks, dismissing those picks as little to no value is simply short-sided and wrong...

Are the Saints as successful without some of these players taken in the later rounds?
  • RG Jahri Evans, R4

  • WRx Marques Colston, R7

  • RT Zach Strief, R7

  • LT Jermon Bushrod, R4

  • LG Carl Nicks, R5

  • P Thomas Morstead, R5

  • WRz Kenny Stills, R5

  • NT Tyeler Davison, R5

  • DT David Onyemata, R4

  • DE Al-Quadin Muhammad, R6

  • RB Boston Scott, R6

  • LB Kaden Elliss, R7

In fact, many of the early drafts were salvaged because of Day 3 picks...
As for Lattimore, Ramczyk, Williams, Kamara, Anzalone, Hendrickson, I'd get rid of none of them. But, I'd continue to trade every 4th, 5th, and 6th rounder to move into the 3rd. Then use the extra 3rd or two to pick up a 2nd. Like I've been saying, you make your hay in the top three rounds statistically. You'll likely not always find partners wanting to trade down (they know better, too) so you'll obviously still have lower round picks occasionally.

Let's see, though. You listed 12 players over 15 years. A few were very impactful. Others were average, yet provided depth. No telling what could have been if some could have been turned into something better with an earlier round pick. And just think of all those others from those lower rounds that went to waste. Perhaps that extra championship or two!

:bng:

AsylumGuido 05-10-2021 05:14 PM
Re: Saints projected to receive three comp picks in 2022 NFL draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 920497)
Well, remember all my Saints history when Jim Finks, Jim Mora would draft, develop players only to let them go to other teams as rookie contracts expired...

No salary cap then, small market, Tom Benson was super stingy; Rickey Jackson once demolished Tommy-Boy's prized conference table because of low-balling...

What I'm saying is you take players on and you kinda gauge when they should be taken snaps, starting based on where you take them in the draft...

First Round should start Game 1, Second Round should start sometime Year 1 or be in a rotation, Round 3~5 should be taken moderate snap loads Year 2...

Rounds 6 and 7, yeah punters, kickers you want under contractual obligation and special team guys that can be developed and possibly retained if you hit gold...
Colston wouldn't have been given a chance under that scenario. I feel players should get playing time based upon how well they can do their jobs. Who cares what round or how many picks they cost? You put your best team on the field. Round drafted should be forgotten and not come into play when deciding play. That is short-sighted, don't you think?

Euphoria 05-10-2021 07:23 PM
Re: Saints projected to receive three comp picks in 2022 NFL draft
 
Well next year the saying its going to be one of the best drafts...

If that is the case stockpile every pick we can get and just snag everyone ya can.


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