Zach Strief: Erik McCoy is on his way to becoming one of NFL’s top centers

gosaints1 · 05-27-2021, 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Disagree - I'd say you're not giving enough weight to Brees' ability to get the ball out quickly so the offensive line didn't have to maintain blocks longer...

And because of Brees' ability to get the ball out quick, we've had success running because the pass had opened up the run attack, when we've used it...

It’s a fair point, and one I understand, but see differently..., and ‘Pass opening up the run’? I doubt that. 31 other NFL teams knew that all they had to do was squat inside 20 yards bc as even the future first ballot Hall of Fame QB recently stated when going through his progressions:

1) “I can’t make that throw”

2) “I can’t make that throw”

3) “I can’t make that throw”

4) “I KNOW I can’t make that throw”

As our greatest QB aged, he no longer was able to make the throws needed, either bc of year long injuries or simply aging. The last few years, the pass most definitely did not open up the run. The running game was good for three reasons.

1) Alvin Kamara

2) Latavius Murray

3) An effective run blocking Offensive Line.

Brees getting the ball out quickly almost always meant a dump out in the flat to Kamara, or an out route inside ten yards..., and the entire league knew it. Sometimes it amazes me at the amount of success the Saints have had, in spite of Mr. Brees recently. Not meaning to disparage him, truly I’m not, but he was done. We saw it clearly the last year. But it’s my belief it’s been snowballing for several years now.

jeanpierre · 05-27-2021, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by gosaints1

It’s a fair point, and one I understand, but see differently..., and ‘Pass opening up the run’? I doubt that. 31 other NFL teams knew that all they had to do was squat inside 20 yards bc as even the future first ballot Hall of Fame QB recently stated when going through his progressions:

1) “I can’t make that throw”

2) “I can’t make that throw”

3) “I can’t make that throw”

4) “I KNOW I can’t make that throw”

As our greatest QB aged, he no longer was able to make the throws needed, either bc of year long injuries or simply aging. The last few years, the pass most definitely did not open up the run. The running game was good for three reasons.

1) Alvin Kamara

2) Latavius Murray

3) An effective run blocking Offensive Line.

Brees getting the ball out quickly almost always meant a dump out in the flat to Kamara, or an out route inside ten yards..., and the entire league knew it. Sometimes it amazes me at the amount of success the Saints have had, in spite of Mr. Brees recently. Not meaning to disparage him, truly I’m not, but he was done. We saw it clearly the last year. But it’s my belief it’s been snowballing for several years now.

And with the field not as stretched, completion percentage, down and distance conversion, as well as yards after contact have all taken a hit...

gosaints1 · 05-27-2021, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

And with the field not as stretched, completion percentage, down and distance conversion, as well as yards after contact have all taken a hit...

Agreed, but completion percentage has either slightly increased or actually gone up bc of Drew choosing the gimme of a dump off instead of the incomplete or interception when pushing the ball downfield.

I’ll say it again, for the ten millionth time, it amazes me as to the level of success the Saints have had when starting a QB who, after the season stated he was healthy only one game, and couldn’t make the throws needed.

And THAT is why I am so optimistic wrt the future of the team sans DB#9. It’s a good team, a very good team.

Boston Saint · 05-27-2021, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by gosaints1

It’s a fair point, and one I understand, but see differently..., and ‘Pass opening up the run’? I doubt that. 31 other NFL teams knew that all they had to do was squat inside 20 yards bc as even the future first ballot Hall of Fame QB recently stated when going through his progressions:

1) “I can’t make that throw”

2) “I can’t make that throw”

3) “I can’t make that throw”

4) “I KNOW I can’t make that throw”

As our greatest QB aged, he no longer was able to make the throws needed, either bc of year long injuries or simply aging. The last few years, the pass most definitely did not open up the run. The running game was good for three reasons.

1) Alvin Kamara

2) Latavius Murray

3) An effective run blocking Offensive Line.

Brees getting the ball out quickly almost always meant a dump out in the flat to Kamara, or an out route inside ten yards..., and the entire league knew it. Sometimes it amazes me at the amount of success the Saints have had, in spite of Mr. Brees recently. Not meaning to disparage him, truly I’m not, but he was done. We saw it clearly the last year. But it’s my belief it’s been snowballing for several years now.

I don’t buy it. Brees would still be a top 10 QB if in the league. His Y/A the last 2 seasons did not go drastically down as he had lower numbers earlier in his career. He had crap production from his WRs the last two years outside of Thomas; and Cook was an untrustworthy TO machine who cost them a playoff loss with a fumble and a tipped pass that turned into a Int. His dump-offs to Kamara were the result of him being the better receiving option over under-producing and injured receivers. If “31 other NFL teams knew that all they had to do was squat inside 20 yards“ the team would not have been 17-6 under him the last two years, would not have won their opening round playoff games the last two years and won the division (beating Tampa twice last year) multiple times consecutively. They would not have been a top 5 scoring team last year. Maybe he couldn’t make those throws because there was no window to throw into due to poor WR separation.

Tampa had a damn good D down the stretch run. They forced 2 playoff Ints from Mahomes and 1 from Rodgers (he only threw 5 ALL SEASON). Were those INTs the result of Mahomes and Rodgers weak arms too? Of course not. Brees may have lost some velocity, but no way was he the noodle armed washed-up player you are portraying.

gosaints1 · 05-27-2021, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I don’t buy it. Brees would still be a top 10 QB if in the league. His Y/A the last 2 seasons did not go drastically down as he had lower numbers earlier in his career. He had crap production from his WRs the last two years outside of Thomas; and Cook was an untrustworthy TO machine who cost them a playoff loss with a fumble and a tipped pass that turned into a Int. His dump-offs to Kamara were the result of him being the better receiving option over under-producing and injured receivers. If “31 other NFL teams knew that all they had to do was squat inside 20 yards“ the team would not have been 17-6 under him the last two years, would not have won their opening round playoff games the last two years and won the division (beating Tampa twice last year) multiple times consecutively. They would not have been a top 5 scoring team last year. Maybe he couldn’t make those throws because there was no window to throw into due to poor WR separation.

Tampa had a damn good D down the stretch run. They forced 2 playoff Ints from Mahomes and 1 from Rodgers (he only threw 5 ALL SEASON). Were those INTs the result of Mahomes and Rodgers weak arms too? Of course not. Brees may have lost some velocity, but no way was he the noodle armed washed-up player you are portraying.

Mr. Brees’ own words when going through his progressions were:

“...Because it's like, 'Well I know I can't make that throw, I can't make that throw, I can't make that throw. So, what's now in my toolbox?'...”

It’s not my portrayal, it’s his own words. He just didn’t have the arm/health/body to make throws. Once again, not my words, not my “portrayal”, it’s the future HOF QB’s own words. To be clear, he directly stated the above bolder quote. Turnover Machine in Jared Cook? Hardly. Cook has nine fumbles over 12 years in the league. Only one fumble in two years with the Saints.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c.../gamelog/post/

Only one. That fumble was costly, but Brees’ three interceptions were all bad passes, passes he very well could have made as a younger man imho. As far as Cook “tipping” a pass. It was actually tipped by LDavid underneath when Brees threw into triple coverage.

YouTube

I realize there is a lot of animosity towards Cook bc he and Brees had an on the field issue earlier in the season. I’ll hold no grudge against a player, on or off the team, emotional attachment to an entertainer-athlete/politician etc..., just isn’t my cup of tea..., but to each their own. Those were bad passes, all three of them, with Brees being mostly protected well.

There is no such thing as a perfectly clean pocket 100% of the time, but of the three int’s, only one was while under pressure. (Video below :45 mark)

YouTube

As far as TB’s defense playing lights out? Yes, absolutely, agreed. The Saints defense played well also, Brady didn’t light the Coliseum up. TB just took advantage, in a huge way, off the Saints mistakes. Nothing complicated there.

05-27-2021, 02:21 AM	#1
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Zach Strief: Erik McCoy is on his way to becoming one of NFL’s top centers Originally Posted by jeanpierre Disagree - I'd say you're not giving enough weight to Brees' ability to get the ball out quickly so the offensive line didn't have to maintain blocks longer... And because of Brees' ability to get the ball out quick, we've had success running because the pass had opened up the run attack, when we've used it... It’s a fair point, and one I understand, but see differently..., and ‘Pass opening up the run’? I doubt that. 31 other NFL teams knew that all they had to do was squat inside 20 yards bc as even the future first ballot Hall of Fame QB recently stated when going through his progressions: 1) “I can’t make that throw” 2) “I can’t make that throw” 3) “I can’t make that throw” 4) “I KNOW I can’t make that throw” As our greatest QB aged, he no longer was able to make the throws needed, either bc of year long injuries or simply aging. The last few years, the pass most definitely did not open up the run. The running game was good for three reasons. 1) Alvin Kamara 2) Latavius Murray 3) An effective run blocking Offensive Line. Brees getting the ball out quickly almost always meant a dump out in the flat to Kamara, or an out route inside ten yards..., and the entire league knew it. Sometimes it amazes me at the amount of success the Saints have had, in spite of Mr. Brees recently. Not meaning to disparage him, truly I’m not, but he was done. We saw it clearly the last year. But it’s my belief it’s been snowballing for several years now. jeanpierre likes this.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

05-27-2021, 07:40 AM	#2
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Zach Strief: Erik McCoy is on his way to becoming one of NFL’s top centers Originally Posted by gosaints1 It’s a fair point, and one I understand, but see differently..., and ‘Pass opening up the run’? I doubt that. 31 other NFL teams knew that all they had to do was squat inside 20 yards bc as even the future first ballot Hall of Fame QB recently stated when going through his progressions: 1) “I can’t make that throw” 2) “I can’t make that throw” 3) “I can’t make that throw” 4) “I KNOW I can’t make that throw” As our greatest QB aged, he no longer was able to make the throws needed, either bc of year long injuries or simply aging. The last few years, the pass most definitely did not open up the run. The running game was good for three reasons. 1) Alvin Kamara 2) Latavius Murray 3) An effective run blocking Offensive Line. Brees getting the ball out quickly almost always meant a dump out in the flat to Kamara, or an out route inside ten yards..., and the entire league knew it. Sometimes it amazes me at the amount of success the Saints have had, in spite of Mr. Brees recently. Not meaning to disparage him, truly I’m not, but he was done. We saw it clearly the last year. But it’s my belief it’s been snowballing for several years now. And with the field not as stretched, completion percentage, down and distance conversion, as well as yards after contact have all taken a hit... gosaints1 likes this.

05-27-2021, 09:43 AM	#3
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Zach Strief: Erik McCoy is on his way to becoming one of NFL’s top centers Originally Posted by jeanpierre And with the field not as stretched, completion percentage, down and distance conversion, as well as yards after contact have all taken a hit... Agreed, but completion percentage has either slightly increased or actually gone up bc of Drew choosing the gimme of a dump off instead of the incomplete or interception when pushing the ball downfield. I’ll say it again, for the ten millionth time, it amazes me as to the level of success the Saints have had when starting a QB who, after the season stated he was healthy only one game, and couldn’t make the throws needed. And THAT is why I am so optimistic wrt the future of the team sans DB#9. It’s a good team, a very good team. jeanpierre likes this.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

05-27-2021, 07:48 AM	#4
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Zach Strief: Erik McCoy is on his way to becoming one of NFL’s top centers Originally Posted by gosaints1 It’s a fair point, and one I understand, but see differently..., and ‘Pass opening up the run’? I doubt that. 31 other NFL teams knew that all they had to do was squat inside 20 yards bc as even the future first ballot Hall of Fame QB recently stated when going through his progressions: 1) “I can’t make that throw” 2) “I can’t make that throw” 3) “I can’t make that throw” 4) “I KNOW I can’t make that throw” As our greatest QB aged, he no longer was able to make the throws needed, either bc of year long injuries or simply aging. The last few years, the pass most definitely did not open up the run. The running game was good for three reasons. 1) Alvin Kamara 2) Latavius Murray 3) An effective run blocking Offensive Line. Brees getting the ball out quickly almost always meant a dump out in the flat to Kamara, or an out route inside ten yards..., and the entire league knew it. Sometimes it amazes me at the amount of success the Saints have had, in spite of Mr. Brees recently. Not meaning to disparage him, truly I’m not, but he was done. We saw it clearly the last year. But it’s my belief it’s been snowballing for several years now. I don’t buy it. Brees would still be a top 10 QB if in the league. His Y/A the last 2 seasons did not go drastically down as he had lower numbers earlier in his career. He had crap production from his WRs the last two years outside of Thomas; and Cook was an untrustworthy TO machine who cost them a playoff loss with a fumble and a tipped pass that turned into a Int. His dump-offs to Kamara were the result of him being the better receiving option over under-producing and injured receivers. If “31 other NFL teams knew that all they had to do was squat inside 20 yards“ the team would not have been 17-6 under him the last two years, would not have won their opening round playoff games the last two years and won the division (beating Tampa twice last year) multiple times consecutively. They would not have been a top 5 scoring team last year. Maybe he couldn’t make those throws because there was no window to throw into due to poor WR separation. Tampa had a damn good D down the stretch run. They forced 2 playoff Ints from Mahomes and 1 from Rodgers (he only threw 5 ALL SEASON). Were those INTs the result of Mahomes and Rodgers weak arms too? Of course not. Brees may have lost some velocity, but no way was he the noodle armed washed-up player you are portraying.
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