Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

And I have never said he doesn’t have issues. Nor to say he should be given the job outright. Only to cast shade on those who say we “know” what he is and that he shouldn’t be given a fair shake himself. He has demonstrated the potential to make plays; he should not be discarded outright. I guess that’s too much for some of you to accept and allow.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Being interception prone has been a result of the offenses employed. In Winston's career he has never had more picks than TD's. Something that Peyton Manning and Brett Favre can't claim. As for Winston's peak year for picks at 30, it was the first year under Bruce Arians that encouraged taking chances down field and it more than doubled Winston's career average in interceptions. Just a little ammo you can use to your advantage, gosaints1 in your arguments.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Man some people here are gonna eat some crow after this season. Lol. One way or another, Team Hill or Team Winston.

We haven't had this kind of talk about our starting QB in a long time.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

I'm team neither. I want want what is best for the team overall in 2021. Taysom Hill is a remarkable athlete and is most valuable being involved in many aspects of the game. Winston is an experienced NFL QB that has put up tremendous numbers under less than optimum conditions. I want the best for the Saints this season. After this season maybe Ian Book takes over and that is fine with me. I want to win now.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Man, so far the only team I’ve seen is the anti-Winston team.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

I wish they would try and pretend Taysom Hill beat out Jameis Winston in training camp. Lol. That boy bout to throw for 4,500+.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Most people I see in the Facebook groups are pretty anti-Hill. Just like anything else it depends on the company you keep. Like minded people gravitate towards each other for better or worse. Mostly worse. That’s why I like this board so much, a lot of independent thinkers around here whose opinions are rooted in knowledge.
I for one don’t care who wins the job as long as it puts us in the best position to win. I just think it’s going to be a lot harder for Hill because he’s such a big part of what we do on offense when he’s not under center. Unless Winston just stinks the place up I think he’s gonna be the guy.
When it’s all said and done the locker room will get behind the guy who puts them in the best position to win/make plays.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Bahahahaha! Cmon man! Who cares if people want Hill or Winston?! Root for your guy. Other people will root for theirs. **** man, there's even a couple guys that want it to be Book. Some of us don't give a ****. Lol.

It's just a difference of opinion.

Here's why I like Hill.

I love what he's done for the team and I enjoy watching him play. I love his enthusiasm and work ethic on the field. He gets fired up and trucks people. He can run and he can throw. Actually, he can and WILL do just about anything asked of him. It's fun!

Although I'm from Red Stick, I've lived in Idaho most of my life. And he went to high school close to where I live now.

I'm sure you have all your reasons for wanting Winston. Its not a big deal man.

Your reasons for liking Winston aren't going to change my mind about him. I've never like his style of leading and I think he tends to have an unusual way of embarrassing himself. I used to love watching Cam sack him. It made me laugh! But big deal! Who cares?!

If Winston starts and does something special, then you can say I told you so!

Sheesh man, not everyone is going to buy that he has some sort of untapped potential that SP is gonna get out of him. But that's okay too.

At the end of the day, your opinion is yours. And mine is mine.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

My point of contention resides with this sole statement "He certainly wasn't anywhere near as good in college as was Winston and played against far inferior opponents."

You took the time to identify how much better the opponents Winston faced were in contrast to the opponents that Hill faced.

This is a team sport Guido, neither of those QBs faced an opponent alone and if you know college football as well as I assume you do, then you know what Hills supporting cast looked like compared to Winston's. A very quick look at how many players were drafted from BYU in to the NFL during Hills time vs how many players were drafted from Florida State tells a story. Winston had multiple offensive players drafted while he was at Florida and in his draft class from Florida... Hill himself wasn't even drafted just as a handful of NFL great QBs weren't drafted.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

I like Hill for the very same reasons and that is why I DON"T want him playing QB. If the Saints have success this season I doubt it will be because of the QB. It will likely be in spite of the QB. I don't expect either to do anymore than be capable. But, Hill can be MUCH more than that in several other areas of the game.

Once again, I am a huge fan of Hill's and that is why I don't want him being wasted at QB.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Once again, Oak, I agree with you that the college stats are irrelevant. I was only replying in kind to Thirty3 who had tried to use Hill's college play (erroneously claiming that Taysom had broken all of Steve Youngs records) as support for Hill being better than Winston.

Oh, and I don't really follow college football. I of course know the conferences and their relative strengths, but I can seldom name more than a couple of players and that's only after Heisman hype begins.

:p

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

JN, this is a good post and I agree with most of it. My only point, and it’s one
that I don’t think some have accepted from me yet is that I don’t WANT Winston to win out over Hill. I don’t believe I have ever said that. I THINK he has shown so far to be the better QB and have more potential for growth than Hill. I THINK he can be a better QB for this team than Hill. I may be wrong of
course.

Winston historically has certainly had more negatives against him in his personality and actions than Hill. I can certainly understand why some want him to fail and are pulling for Hill over him. It’s not hard to understand why.

What I don’t understand is people writing him off and saying they “know who Winston is” and such type things. Acting like he has no chance. The numbers and video show differently. I posted a video of him with numerous plays that require immense skill and talent to perform. Skills that can only be done by someone who possess all the tools necessary to be a successful NFL QB, and the reaction from some is, “Sure, that’s a highlight reel”. Does that mean he didn’t pull off those plays? Does it mean he can’t make more of
those great plays and cut down on the bad ones under Payton’s coaching? I just don’t see why some aren’t willing to give him the same chance as Hill to win the job in Training camp. I’ve seen too many “We know what he is” type comments for me to wrap my head around. Especially for a QB that beat the Saints twice while he was with Tampa.

One last thing is about Winston’s actions and attitudes since he’s been a
Saint. I’ve heard nothing but positives about and from him since he’s been here. His talking about being a family man and getting married was an eye opener about his character for me. I know getting married and becoming a father straightened my ass out quite a bit. He never made a single complaint about Hill starting over him in Brees’s absence last year. He has maturely and gracefully accepted the backup role so he could get a “Harvard education” in QBing was the way he put it I believe. He also get LASIKS done to help his vision (another thing that made a big difference in my life). I just don’t understand the desire to write him off so readily when the option is the VERY unproven Hill.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Which if you look at things behaviorally/psychologically you should expect from fans who know in the back of their mind that Winston is the better QB but are coming off 15 years of Drew Brees.

The anchor is gone and its left a hole in the minds of fans, a hole that wont be filled with one shovel of dirt or comment on forums.

Making this racial is the least intellectually taxing or stimulating argument anyone can make. When a race card is dropped the real discussion about two QBs becomes dead and gone.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Possibly so about the race issue Oak. It’s not my normal go-to angle. However, players have been mentioning it for years, and the league has recognized its existence and has implemented a program to help black coaches in the league by rewarding those teams that help them get coaching jobs. It’s kinda hard to say it doesn’t exist AT ALL. When people say a 5,000 yard 33 TD passer who has lead a historically struggling team to a 9-7 record has no chance against a guy with 4 starts to his resume, you start scratching your head and trying to figure out where they are coming from.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Matters of racial bias and prejudice will forever be difficult to substantiate. There’s always some level of plausible deniability. I do know Aaron Brooks gets a lot of undeserved, hate for a QB that led us to our first playoff win in franchise history. He had a better winning percentage, completion percentage, more TD’s, and far less interceptions than Archie Manning. Aaron Brooks is the best QB not named Drew Brees in franchise history. Why the hate? If it’s because of his race, we’d still never be able to prove the disdain for him is based on racial bias. It’s a rabbit hole not worth exploring.

I can’t pretend that those sentiments don’t cross my mind when I hear people attempt to make a case for Hill over Winston, but trust me when I say, it’s not worth the headache. I’m with you. Winston is the younger, QB. He’s the more talented QB. He’s the more proven QB. He’s the QB that was compared to Peyton Manning when it came to X’s and O’s. He had maturity issues, but Hill has injury issues. He’s a faster version of Tim Tebow. I like him a lot, but there’s no scenario I can envision where Taysom Hill beats out Winston in an open competition.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Come on Rez, just because someone may have a different opinion than you or I shouldn’t automatically result in race being applied. I have been on record for saying that Winston is the better QB while Taysom is a gadget guy. But I definitely can see a scenario where Taysom could beat out Winston..., and it revolves around a QB who has 88 career int’s over 70 games as a starter. And has absolutely nothing to do with his race or even if I like/dislike the guy.

Turning the ball over as a QB will eliminate your team from postseason play almost always. Taysom has a tendency to turn the ball over also, but he just doesn’t have the stats over time that Jameis has. When I hear “We know what Jameis is”, it’s an argument I don’t agree with, but understand. I keep in mind that Tampa performance won’t necessarily result in NoLa performance though. But I’ve always been a believer in the best predictor for future behavior/performance is past behavior/performance.

Bottom line Jameis’ career stats are a double edged sword. They’re his strongest advocate..., and also his greatest detractor.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

I’m not necessarily taking that position. I was just offering up my analysis on the position in general.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Pardon me for jumping in go, but they simply are not the double edge sword you are making them out to be. As demonstrated before there have been multiple
seasons for quarterbacks that made the Hall of Fame that had worse touchdown to interception ratio’s in a season than Winston; including a year when Brett Favre through 29 interceptions to only 20 touchdowns. Yet no one wrote Brett Favre off after that year. It’s simply a misnomer that his stats are that bad. Why did Favre, Elway, Manning and others get passes for seasons with negative 5, 6 or more Ints to TD seasons and Winston is branded for his career for a season he threw for 5,000 and had a +3 TD number? Answer me that simple question please ! Anyone!

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

I know you have pointed out that fact numerous times, Boston, but it is conveniently ignored as it plays havoc with their stance.

To add to your logical observation is also the fact that his last season was in Bruce Arian's "No risk it, no biscuit" offense where taking chances was expected. His 30 interceptions more than doubled his career interception average (14.5) from his previous four seasons. I have FAR more concerns with his demonstrated lack of maturity early on than his turnover numbers and it is appearing that he has made very positive strides in that area.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Who is giving him a pass? If those QB’s were on the Saints rosters after having horrible seasons wrt interceptions, I would be making the EXACT same argument that I am now. Those QB’s are all retired though, their stats and careers are history..., aka the past. What we’re discussing is the future. And anybody who says I don’t trust Winston to not throw a crapton of int’s has a legitimate point.

Winston could be the best thing in a Saints uni since crunchy peanut butter was introduced to the consumer market, lol. Entirely possible, entirely possible the opposite will happen. It’s not fair to compare already finished and completed careers to one that is in process. We, at least I, just don’t know the future. You know my arguments, lol, I’ve been very critical of Drew Brees this past year, and was called a “hater” many times, just for my criticism of his arm strength and ability to push the ball vertically. First ballot HOFer or not, the guy I want starting at QB is not the guy who says:

“I can’t make that throw,
I can’t make that throw,
I know I can’t make that throw,
I can’t make that throw...,
What do I have left in my toolbox”

I’m excited about the future, Hill, Winston..., or heck, maybe even Ian Book, or someone else!

May the best player get the start, stay healthy, and lead the Saints to many championships!!!

As far as Winston’s stats go? 88 int’s in 70 starts. That’s more than one int every game he’s started. Bad? That’s subjective. Me? I’m not ok with turning the ball over that much. You may evaluate turnovers differently though.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

That’s fair reasoning. But I will also point out he has 120 TDs in those 70 starts too. That’s more than a lot of QBs got in their first 70 games. Not to mention the yards. I’ve done a bit of diving into the “run support” Winston has while Qbing at Tampa. Let’s just say it’s been less than stellar. But hell, I hate being forced into this support Winston position. I’m only pointing out that he has a lot of potential and I disagree with writing him off.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

What do you think about 100 interceptions in a QB's first 80 games? How about 251 interceptions in 265 career games? Some guy named Peyton Manning put up those numbers.

Or how about 336 picks in 298 games? Some guy named Brett Favre did that in his career.

"That’s more than one int every game he’s started. Bad? That’s subjective. Me? I’m not ok with turning the ball over that much."

;)

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Taysom Hill just needs to show up ready to go through his progressions faster. Study film like Drew does and look at all the options on each and every play. Whoever has the better grasp of the playbook and can read protections while not throwing interceptions will take the reigns from Drew this year.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

I don't understand why you make arguments out of bits and pieces of people's discussions. It's misleading. Politicians and media members do that and it's abhorrent.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Easier said than done. Some QB's never get some of that down. Hill has to first go through a progression before he can do it faster. All he seemed to handle was first look, dump off, or run ... or hold on and get sacked.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Sorry I abhor you. No. Not really. :D You appear to abhor easily.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

That's what I see too. A good NFL coordinator will shut that down fast. And unfortunately Hill's deep ball is not all that accurate as I recall.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

I enjoyed seeing Taysom play, however Kamara is non existent with Taysom at QB. He either looks away from him or throws a 90mph fastball at him from 5 yards away (see philly game), he has no touch on his passes and it shows badly.
We can't have Kamara being a decoy, he is far too good of a player.

For that reason I say start Jameis and see what he can do, if he becomes a turnover machine, it's only a 1 year deal, let Taysom or Ian Book have a shot mid season if its really bad and if the season goes belly up, then we are in a spot to select a QB to build around.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

I speak for no one but myself. I take the league recognizing existence and its subsequent actions on any topic with a grain of salt. If we give credence to everything the league recognizes, then takes action on, we should start with bounties lol no? I am also Gen-X and believe that the NFL should stick to matters of football mostly because of the incompetence of the league and people like Kaepernick who may have the right reasons but do the wrong thing and damage the efforts of many great people who have bettered racial relations in our country. Neither silence nor screaming progress anything.

The NFL is a marketing machine, not a special interest group as are 99% of all of the companies with rainbow logos this month, they want to appeal to wallets.

The NFL recognizes and takes action only on items that have financial implications or liability (a potential to increase revenues or lower profits). While that can be said about all businesses, it does not make them evil, it just makes them both predictable and disingenuous. The greater percentage of the public waits daily, like baby birds, with their mouths open in anticipation of what partially digested mess a marketing department will regurgitated onto them.

On the matter of what someone said.. well brother for every statement made an opposing statement can be found. Are you looking for truth? Good luck with that.. Are you looking for a debate/argument? There is one around every corner.... Are you just genuinely curious like I tend to be, then you are looking for more questions....

'A wolf does not concern it self with the opinions of sheep'. As cheesy as that statement may be it is not terribly bad advice. Let the sheep bahh all the want, it is not like they are going anywhere soon.

To Rez's point, we can not help our thoughts we can only help how we act upon our thoughts. Society gives mixed messages on that topic, social justice wants you to act upon your thoughts or perception of racism... no one wants you to not act upon your thoughts of suicide. With the overarching message being follow your feelings or your gut, If everyone did, there would be a lot more funerals.

I have a general rule, I am willing to discuss race, politics, and religion as long as no one gets racial, political, or religious. Subjective emotion is a sh1t-show. :bng: