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-   -   USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era (https://blackandgold.com/saints/100754-usa-today-saintswire-sedrick-ellis-named-saints-worst-draft-pick-sean-payton.html)

jeanpierre 07-06-2021 08:59 AM
USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 

dizzle88 07-06-2021 12:46 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 
Nah. Sedrick wasn't good but at least he played.

Stanley Jean Baptiste is the worst without a doubt.

MarchingOn 07-06-2021 09:30 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 922788)
Nah. Sedrick wasn't good but at least he played.

Stanley Jean Baptiste is the worst without a doubt.
CB Baptiste in the 2nd
LB Stephone Anthony in the first

Boston Saint 07-06-2021 09:59 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 
I’d still nominate Davenport because he cost 2 first rounders.

SmashMouth 07-06-2021 10:01 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 
Pre SP, the Sully draft.... OMG.
https://www.pro-football-reference.c.../nor/draft.htm

Dizzle is correct, IMHO. that 2014 draft is SP's worst.

SaintFanInATLHELL 07-06-2021 11:20 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 922800)
I’d still nominate Davenport because he cost 2 first rounders.
I've always though this view was skewed on a couple of fronts. Since the Saints got a 1st round pick, at #14 in return, at best the cost was an extra 1st round pick. But since that pick was a year later, typically it's devalued by a round. So a #1 pick next year is worth a #2 pick now.

OK fine. The Saints stay put. Who do they pick at #27 in 2018 and #30 in 2019 as replacements?

Just like Mark Ingram, there's this flawed thinking that trading multiple draft picks means that the player has to exceed both of the original slots that were traded to get that pick. It's not a one to one mapping. A #14 pick isn't necessarily going to pan out as an all-Pro. For example Malcolm Jenkins is a #14 pick. Sometimes you get lucky, like Ramczyk, where a player exceeds their draft pick during their career.

If Davenport was really as good as many think he ought to be, he would have been a top 10 pick in the draft and out of reach. With the trade, the Saints got the player they wanted, and got that player that year, instead of a player they didn't want as much that year and another player the next.

Davenport's biggest problem has been availability. When he plays, he makes a difference on the defense. Just like a #14 pick should.

SFIAH

Boston Saint 07-06-2021 11:50 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 922805)
I've always though this view was skewed on a couple of fronts. Since the Saints got a 1st round pick, at #14 in return, at best the cost was an extra 1st round pick. But since that pick was a year later, typically it's devalued by a round. So a #1 pick next year is worth a #2 pick now.

OK fine. The Saints stay put. Who do they pick at #27 in 2018 and #30 in 2019 as replacements?

Just like Mark Ingram, there's this flawed thinking that trading multiple draft picks means that the player has to exceed both of the original slots that were traded to get that pick. It's not a one to one mapping. A #14 pick isn't necessarily going to pan out as an all-Pro. For example Malcolm Jenkins is a #14 pick. Sometimes you get lucky, like Ramczyk, where a player exceeds their draft pick during their career.

If Davenport was really as good as many think he ought to be, he would have been a top 10 pick in the draft and out of reach. With the trade, the Saints got the player they wanted, and got that player that year, instead of a player they didn't want as much that year and another player the next.

Davenport's biggest problem has been availability. When he plays, he makes a difference on the defense. Just like a #14 pick should.

SFIAH
Fair enough. I understand and respect your opinion. I just disagree. I don’t care what reasons are given, his production has simply not lived up to his cost so far. He has been outperformed by a player in Hendrickson that came at a significantly less cost of draft capital. That’s how I see it and ain’t nothing gonna change my mind. I hope he proves me wrong this year.

SmashMouth 07-07-2021 06:57 AM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 922806)
Fair enough. I understand and respect your opinion. I just disagree. I don’t care what reasons are given, his production has simply not lived up to his cost so far. He has been outperformed by a player in Hendrickson that came at a significantly less cost of draft capital. That’s how I see it and ain’t nothing gonna change my mind. I hope he proves me wrong this year.
Davenport isn't the only drafted Saint in a similar predicament. He has at least produced when healthy, unlike many previous busts. Maybe he turns it around this year as Armstead seemingly has the past couple of years.

jeanpierre 07-07-2021 08:18 AM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 922800)
I’d still nominate Davenport because he cost 2 first rounders.
And a fifth rounder, that's 3 for 1...

And I'll repeat, Davenport as a first round pick hasn't been that bad, he's just not been available - Health/Endurance should be a benchmark in grading draft prospects...

It's on Sean Payton spending that much draft capital to move up to take a DE, when other defensive ends have had just as good start and were taken later...

Davenport in no way is as bad pick as Sullivan was; but staying on topic, this is about the worst picks of the Payton tenure...

I've been comparing Davenport to Ohio St DE Sam Hubbard to measure statistics and production...

  • Davenport has 39 Tk, 12 Sk, 2018 Draft (R1/P14, Plus 2019 R1/P30 and 2018 R5/P147)

  • Hubbard has has 177 Tk, 16.5 Sk 2018 Draft (R3/P77)

Now do believe Davenport has the higher ceiling, but like Armstead, the question begs, What good is a dancing bear if he's only available on limited engagements?

Further, that first round pick in the 2019 draft could have easily have been a WRz where DK Metcalf, AJ Brown, or Mecole Hardman were available...

The fifth rounder could be another TE, LB, or OL depth - Moving up has serious ramifications; it's important to get it right...

Considering Draft Management, comparing Davenport, Hubbard production, was it worth the draft capital? For me, Hubbard compares to former Saint DE Will Smith...

Davenport isn't the bust, the move to select him was the bust, that's the distinction I wanted to make...

Boston Saint 07-07-2021 08:27 AM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 
Cedric Ellis played 39 games in his first three years. Marcus Davenport played 37 games in his first three years. They both averaged four sacks a season. I would expect an outside rusher to have more sacks than an interior lineman.. Ellis averaged more tackles then Davenport, but, likewise, I would expect that an interior lineman would have more tackles than an edge rusher. I just looked them up and It’s funny their stats are practically identical. Trades were made to obtain both players. So, my point is that if Cedric Ellis is going to be talked about as their worst draft pick ever under Payton, then Davenport certainly has to be in the discussion.

Rugby Saint II 07-07-2021 08:41 AM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 
Stanley Jean Baptiste was the worst pick considering we got zero return from him. The others at least were there occasionally.

SmashMouth 07-07-2021 12:40 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 922809)
And a fifth rounder, that's 3 for 1...

And I'll repeat, Davenport as a first round pick hasn't been that bad, he's just not been available - Health/Endurance should be a benchmark in grading draft prospects...

It's on Sean Payton spending that much draft capital to move up to take a DE, when other defensive ends have had just as good start and were taken later...

Davenport in no way is as bad pick as Sullivan was; but staying on topic, this is about the worst picks of the Payton tenure...

I've been comparing Davenport to Ohio St DE Sam Hubbard to measure statistics and production...

  • Davenport has 39 Tk, 12 Sk, 2018 Draft (R1/P14, Plus 2019 R1/P30 and 2018 R5/P147)

  • Hubbard has has 177 Tk, 16.5 Sk 2018 Draft (R3/P77)

Now do believe Davenport has the higher ceiling, but like Armstead, the question begs, What good is a dancing bear if he's only available on limited engagements?

Further, that first round pick in the 2019 draft could have easily have been a WRz where DK Metcalf, AJ Brown, or Mecole Hardman were available...

The fifth rounder could be another TE, LB, or OL depth - Moving up has serious ramifications; it's important to get it right...

Considering Draft Management, comparing Davenport, Hubbard production, was it worth the draft capital? For me, Hubbard compares to former Saint DE Will Smith...

Davenport isn't the bust, the move to select him was the bust, that's the distinction I wanted to make...

Yikes... Hubbard is from The Ohio St to boot! Just goes to show, it's rare that moving up works out. They can't all be Mahomes. We should know with our draft history of trading multiple firsts.

jeanpierre 07-07-2021 05:26 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 922824)
Yikes... Hubbard is from The Ohio St to boot! Just goes to show, it's rare that moving up works out. They can't all be Mahomes. We should know with our draft history of trading multiple firsts.
To me, a Franchise QB is the only player you move up and spend that kind of capital, and if you get it wrong, even Sean Payton, you should lose your job...

#Accountability #CompetitionStreet

K Major 07-07-2021 05:47 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 
2015: LB Stephone Anthony, Round 1

Hindsight is 20/20, however this one ranks up there for me.

I was high on Denzel Perryman & Eric Kendricks from that draft class.

dizzle88 07-07-2021 05:55 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 922836)
2015: LB Stephone Anthony, Round 1

Hindsight is 20/20, however this one ranks up there for me.

I was high on Denzel Perryman & Eric Kendricks from that draft class.
That was one super difficult, because he looked really promising in his rookie season. But then you realise, the reason he looked so good is because of how bad everyone else was around him lol

I think it was in 2020 vs Vikings when he played a snap down near the goal line and immediately allowed a TD. The gap between him and Demario is otherworldly.

darksoul35 07-07-2021 06:16 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 922807)
Davenport isn't the only drafted Saint in a similar predicament. He has at least produced when healthy, unlike many previous busts. Maybe he turns it around this year as Armstead seemingly has the past couple of years.
We really need him to have a good year. I just want him to stay healthy and see what hes got.

gosaints1 07-07-2021 07:48 PM
Re: USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 922834)
To me, a Franchise QB is the only player you move up and spend that kind of capital, and if you get it wrong, even Sean Payton, you should lose your job...

#Accountability #CompetitionStreet
Kinda agree here, although losing your job is quite harsh, doubly so to do that to a HC with his track record wrt W/L & culture of success. I agree with your franchise QB ideology, but I’ll cut CSP some slack on the Davenport move. I’m in line with BostonSaint on this one. Previous to his earlier post, I was looking at the first three years of stats comparative between Davenport and Ellis and they are VERY similar. Davenport has way more QB hits though, significantly more. Regardless, if Ellis is considered the worst, albeit arguably to some, then I put Davenport right there with him. From a historical, first three years, comparison only. I just have to.

Why hasn’t Charles Brown been invited to the little kids table, aka worst draft pick in Coach’s history, yet though? Oof.


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