USA Today/SaintsWire | Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era

jeanpierre · 07-06-2021, 08:59 AM

MatthewT and gosaints1 like this.

dizzle88 · 07-06-2021, 12:46 PM

Nah. Sedrick wasn't good but at least he played.

Stanley Jean Baptiste is the worst without a doubt.

MarchingOn · 07-06-2021, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

Nah. Sedrick wasn't good but at least he played.

Stanley Jean Baptiste is the worst without a doubt.

CB Baptiste in the 2nd
LB Stephone Anthony in the first

Boston Saint · 07-06-2021, 09:59 PM

I’d still nominate Davenport because he cost 2 first rounders.

SmashMouth · 07-06-2021, 10:01 PM

Pre SP, the Sully draft.... OMG.
https://www.pro-football-reference.c.../nor/draft.htm

Dizzle is correct, IMHO. that 2014 draft is SP's worst.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 07-06-2021, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I’d still nominate Davenport because he cost 2 first rounders.

I've always though this view was skewed on a couple of fronts. Since the Saints got a 1st round pick, at #14 in return, at best the cost was an extra 1st round pick. But since that pick was a year later, typically it's devalued by a round. So a #1 pick next year is worth a #2 pick now.

OK fine. The Saints stay put. Who do they pick at #27 in 2018 and #30 in 2019 as replacements?

Just like Mark Ingram, there's this flawed thinking that trading multiple draft picks means that the player has to exceed both of the original slots that were traded to get that pick. It's not a one to one mapping. A #14 pick isn't necessarily going to pan out as an all-Pro. For example Malcolm Jenkins is a #14 pick. Sometimes you get lucky, like Ramczyk, where a player exceeds their draft pick during their career.

If Davenport was really as good as many think he ought to be, he would have been a top 10 pick in the draft and out of reach. With the trade, the Saints got the player they wanted, and got that player that year, instead of a player they didn't want as much that year and another player the next.

Davenport's biggest problem has been availability. When he plays, he makes a difference on the defense. Just like a #14 pick should.

SFIAH

Boston Saint · 07-06-2021, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

I've always though this view was skewed on a couple of fronts. Since the Saints got a 1st round pick, at #14 in return, at best the cost was an extra 1st round pick. But since that pick was a year later, typically it's devalued by a round. So a #1 pick next year is worth a #2 pick now.

OK fine. The Saints stay put. Who do they pick at #27 in 2018 and #30 in 2019 as replacements?

Just like Mark Ingram, there's this flawed thinking that trading multiple draft picks means that the player has to exceed both of the original slots that were traded to get that pick. It's not a one to one mapping. A #14 pick isn't necessarily going to pan out as an all-Pro. For example Malcolm Jenkins is a #14 pick. Sometimes you get lucky, like Ramczyk, where a player exceeds their draft pick during their career.

If Davenport was really as good as many think he ought to be, he would have been a top 10 pick in the draft and out of reach. With the trade, the Saints got the player they wanted, and got that player that year, instead of a player they didn't want as much that year and another player the next.

Davenport's biggest problem has been availability. When he plays, he makes a difference on the defense. Just like a #14 pick should.

SFIAH

Fair enough. I understand and respect your opinion. I just disagree. I don’t care what reasons are given, his production has simply not lived up to his cost so far. He has been outperformed by a player in Hendrickson that came at a significantly less cost of draft capital. That’s how I see it and ain’t nothing gonna change my mind. I hope he proves me wrong this year.

SmashMouth · 07-07-2021, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Fair enough. I understand and respect your opinion. I just disagree. I don’t care what reasons are given, his production has simply not lived up to his cost so far. He has been outperformed by a player in Hendrickson that came at a significantly less cost of draft capital. That’s how I see it and ain’t nothing gonna change my mind. I hope he proves me wrong this year.

Davenport isn't the only drafted Saint in a similar predicament. He has at least produced when healthy, unlike many previous busts. Maybe he turns it around this year as Armstead seemingly has the past couple of years.

jeanpierre · 07-07-2021, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I’d still nominate Davenport because he cost 2 first rounders.

And a fifth rounder, that's 3 for 1...

And I'll repeat, Davenport as a first round pick hasn't been that bad, he's just not been available - Health/Endurance should be a benchmark in grading draft prospects...

It's on Sean Payton spending that much draft capital to move up to take a DE, when other defensive ends have had just as good start and were taken later...

Davenport in no way is as bad pick as Sullivan was; but staying on topic, this is about the worst picks of the Payton tenure...

I've been comparing Davenport to Ohio St DE Sam Hubbard to measure statistics and production...

Davenport has 39 Tk, 12 Sk, 2018 Draft (R1/P14, Plus 2019 R1/P30 and 2018 R5/P147)

Hubbard has has 177 Tk, 16.5 Sk 2018 Draft (R3/P77)

Now do believe Davenport has the higher ceiling, but like Armstead, the question begs, What good is a dancing bear if he's only available on limited engagements?

Further, that first round pick in the 2019 draft could have easily have been a WRz where DK Metcalf, AJ Brown, or Mecole Hardman were available...

The fifth rounder could be another TE, LB, or OL depth - Moving up has serious ramifications; it's important to get it right...

Considering Draft Management, comparing Davenport, Hubbard production, was it worth the draft capital? For me, Hubbard compares to former Saint DE Will Smith...

Davenport isn't the bust, the move to select him was the bust, that's the distinction I wanted to make...

Boston Saint · 07-07-2021, 08:27 AM

Cedric Ellis played 39 games in his first three years. Marcus Davenport played 37 games in his first three years. They both averaged four sacks a season. I would expect an outside rusher to have more sacks than an interior lineman.. Ellis averaged more tackles then Davenport, but, likewise, I would expect that an interior lineman would have more tackles than an edge rusher. I just looked them up and It’s funny their stats are practically identical. Trades were made to obtain both players. So, my point is that if Cedric Ellis is going to be talked about as their worst draft pick ever under Payton, then Davenport certainly has to be in the discussion.

07-06-2021, 09:59 PM	#4
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,869	Re: USA Today/SaintsWire \| Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era I’d still nominate Davenport because he cost 2 first rounders.

07-06-2021, 10:01 PM	#5
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 36,987 Blog Entries: 29	Re: USA Today/SaintsWire \| Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era Pre SP, the Sully draft.... OMG. https://www.pro-football-reference.c.../nor/draft.htm Dizzle is correct, IMHO. that 2014 draft is SP's worst. jeanpierre and dizzle88 like this.

07-06-2021, 11:20 PM	#6
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Re: USA Today/SaintsWire \| Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era Originally Posted by Boston Saint I’d still nominate Davenport because he cost 2 first rounders. I've always though this view was skewed on a couple of fronts. Since the Saints got a 1st round pick, at #14 in return, at best the cost was an extra 1st round pick. But since that pick was a year later, typically it's devalued by a round. So a #1 pick next year is worth a #2 pick now. OK fine. The Saints stay put. Who do they pick at #27 in 2018 and #30 in 2019 as replacements? Just like Mark Ingram, there's this flawed thinking that trading multiple draft picks means that the player has to exceed both of the original slots that were traded to get that pick. It's not a one to one mapping. A #14 pick isn't necessarily going to pan out as an all-Pro. For example Malcolm Jenkins is a #14 pick. Sometimes you get lucky, like Ramczyk, where a player exceeds their draft pick during their career. If Davenport was really as good as many think he ought to be, he would have been a top 10 pick in the draft and out of reach. With the trade, the Saints got the player they wanted, and got that player that year, instead of a player they didn't want as much that year and another player the next. Davenport's biggest problem has been availability. When he plays, he makes a difference on the defense. Just like a #14 pick should. SFIAH saintsfan1976, AsylumGuido, Rugby Saint II and 2 others like this.
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07-06-2021, 11:50 PM	#7
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,869	Re: USA Today/SaintsWire \| Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL I've always though this view was skewed on a couple of fronts. Since the Saints got a 1st round pick, at #14 in return, at best the cost was an extra 1st round pick. But since that pick was a year later, typically it's devalued by a round. So a #1 pick next year is worth a #2 pick now. OK fine. The Saints stay put. Who do they pick at #27 in 2018 and #30 in 2019 as replacements? Just like Mark Ingram, there's this flawed thinking that trading multiple draft picks means that the player has to exceed both of the original slots that were traded to get that pick. It's not a one to one mapping. A #14 pick isn't necessarily going to pan out as an all-Pro. For example Malcolm Jenkins is a #14 pick. Sometimes you get lucky, like Ramczyk, where a player exceeds their draft pick during their career. If Davenport was really as good as many think he ought to be, he would have been a top 10 pick in the draft and out of reach. With the trade, the Saints got the player they wanted, and got that player that year, instead of a player they didn't want as much that year and another player the next. Davenport's biggest problem has been availability. When he plays, he makes a difference on the defense. Just like a #14 pick should. SFIAH Fair enough. I understand and respect your opinion. I just disagree. I don’t care what reasons are given, his production has simply not lived up to his cost so far. He has been outperformed by a player in Hendrickson that came at a significantly less cost of draft capital. That’s how I see it and ain’t nothing gonna change my mind. I hope he proves me wrong this year.

07-07-2021, 06:57 AM	#8
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 36,987 Blog Entries: 29	Re: USA Today/SaintsWire \| Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era Originally Posted by Boston Saint Fair enough. I understand and respect your opinion. I just disagree. I don’t care what reasons are given, his production has simply not lived up to his cost so far. He has been outperformed by a player in Hendrickson that came at a significantly less cost of draft capital. That’s how I see it and ain’t nothing gonna change my mind. I hope he proves me wrong this year. Davenport isn't the only drafted Saint in a similar predicament. He has at least produced when healthy, unlike many previous busts. Maybe he turns it around this year as Armstead seemingly has the past couple of years. darksoul35 and stickman like this.

07-06-2021, 08:59 AM	#1
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	USA Today/SaintsWire \| Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era Twitter MatthewT and gosaints1 like this.

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07-06-2021, 12:46 PM	#2
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,838	Re: USA Today/SaintsWire \| Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era Nah. Sedrick wasn't good but at least he played. Stanley Jean Baptiste is the worst without a doubt. jnormand, MatthewT, SmashMouth and 6 others like this.

07-06-2021, 09:30 PM	#3
MarchingOn 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 387 Blog Entries: 1	Re: USA Today/SaintsWire \| Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era Originally Posted by dizzle88 Nah. Sedrick wasn't good but at least he played. Stanley Jean Baptiste is the worst without a doubt. CB Baptiste in the 2nd LB Stephone Anthony in the first dizzle88 and darksoul35 like this.

07-07-2021, 08:18 AM	#9
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: USA Today/SaintsWire \| Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era Originally Posted by Boston Saint I’d still nominate Davenport because he cost 2 first rounders. And a fifth rounder, that's 3 for 1... And I'll repeat, Davenport as a first round pick hasn't been that bad, he's just not been available - Health/Endurance should be a benchmark in grading draft prospects... It's on Sean Payton spending that much draft capital to move up to take a DE, when other defensive ends have had just as good start and were taken later... Davenport in no way is as bad pick as Sullivan was; but staying on topic, this is about the worst picks of the Payton tenure... I've been comparing Davenport to Ohio St DE Sam Hubbard to measure statistics and production... Davenport has 39 Tk, 12 Sk, 2018 Draft (R1/P14, Plus 2019 R1/P30 and 2018 R5/P147) Hubbard has has 177 Tk, 16.5 Sk 2018 Draft (R3/P77) Now do believe Davenport has the higher ceiling, but like Armstead, the question begs, What good is a dancing bear if he's only available on limited engagements? Further, that first round pick in the 2019 draft could have easily have been a WRz where DK Metcalf, AJ Brown, or Mecole Hardman were available... The fifth rounder could be another TE, LB, or OL depth - Moving up has serious ramifications; it's important to get it right... Considering Draft Management, comparing Davenport, Hubbard production, was it worth the draft capital? For me, Hubbard compares to former Saint DE Will Smith... Davenport isn't the bust, the move to select him was the bust, that's the distinction I wanted to make... saintsfan1976, SmashMouth and Boston Saint like this.
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07-07-2021, 08:27 AM	#10
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,869	Re: USA Today/SaintsWire \| Sedrick Ellis named Saints' worst draft pick in the Sean Payton era Cedric Ellis played 39 games in his first three years. Marcus Davenport played 37 games in his first three years. They both averaged four sacks a season. I would expect an outside rusher to have more sacks than an interior lineman.. Ellis averaged more tackles then Davenport, but, likewise, I would expect that an interior lineman would have more tackles than an edge rusher. I just looked them up and It’s funny their stats are practically identical. Trades were made to obtain both players. So, my point is that if Cedric Ellis is going to be talked about as their worst draft pick ever under Payton, then Davenport certainly has to be in the discussion. gosaints1 likes this.
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