Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots

Boston Saint · 09-29-2021, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

If Mike returns healthy we should have a three WR set WRx Thomas/Callaway, WRz Harris/Stills, WRs Montgomery/Hogan, that's not too shabby...

Just seems like for Team Winston, there's always another reason 'round the corner to make excuses for Jameis' ineffectiveness this season...

Packers game was an outlier, and now that teams have that film, there's nothing demonstrating a consistent ability to methodically work downfield...

Brees, for all intent and purpose did it with far less; he really didn't have a healthy Thomas at all; could only get Sanders the ball on back shoulder, curls...

Say what you want about Cook, but he disappeared because he's overrated and only made big catches like Tre'Quan - because he was unguarded...

Reality is this, it's still early this season for Winston, we should have a better picture by the BYE, but we have five years of film on Winston's processing inability in the pocket...

Bigger Question - if Sean could take a reconstructed-shouldered Brees, make him the NFL's All-Time Passer, why are the brakes being pumped on a more talented Winston?

But I let the Winston apologists keep making their arguments, but eventually they'll wear out or run out of excuses until he gets it or Payton comes to Arians' conclusion...

Let’s look at some numbers. In 2006, his first year as starter with the team, Brees through his first three games had:

3 TDs
2 Int
7.2 yards/attempt
team 25.3 ppg
Horn, Colston, Moore, Henderson, Bush, Deuce as offensive weapons.
4 pre-season games to work with the first team starters.
0 games where team was displaced by Hurricane
0 coaches missing for Covid protocol.

Winston in his first 3 starts for the Saints has:

7 TDs
2 Ints
6.1 Y/A
24.3 ppg
Kamara...and a bunch of guys less talented than Brees had.
1 preseason game working with starters.
3 games team displaced by Hurricane.
5 coaches at least missed from Covid protocols.

Now, you can call someone pointing out these facts as being an apologist if it makes you feel better. I call it being a realist. I also don’t see the comparative “ineffectiveness” you are complaining about. Payton had two seasons watching Winston and I don’t think he would make him his starter if he had doubts about his ability to pass the ball downfield. But, as you say, time will tell.

jeanpierre · 09-29-2021, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Let’s look at some numbers. In 2006, his first year as starter with the team, Brees through his first three games had:

3 TDs
2 Int
7.2 yards/attempt
team 25.3 ppg
Horn, Colston, Moore, Henderson, Bush, Deuce as offensive weapons.
4 pre-season games to work with the first team starters.
0 games where team was displaced by Hurricane
0 coaches missing for Covid protocol.

Winston in his first 3 starts for the Saints has:

7 TDs
2 Ints
6.1 Y/A
24.3 ppg
Kamara...and a bunch of guys less talented than Brees had.
1 preseason game working with starters.
3 games team displaced by Hurricane.
5 coaches at least missed from Covid protocols.

Now, you can call someone pointing out these facts as being an apologist if it makes you feel better. I call it being a realist. I also don’t see the comparative “ineffectiveness” you are complaining about. Payton had two seasons watching Winston and I don’t think he would make him his starter if he had doubts about his ability to pass the ball downfield. But, as you say, time will tell.

You really think the 2006 roster was equal to the 2021 Saints roster?

You're comparing apples and oranges...

Boston Saint · 09-29-2021, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

You really think the 2006 roster was equal to the 2021 Saints roster?

You're comparing apples and oranges...

But that’s kind of the point. The current team doesn’t have the weapons IMO to help Winston get the ball downfield. I think that’s where the “issues” he’s had have mostly come from. Not his inability to read coverages and make decisions. It’s not people being Winston apologists. I could be wrong though.

WW_Who_Dat · 09-29-2021, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Let’s look at some numbers. In 2006, his first year as starter with the team, Brees through his first three games had:

3 TDs
2 Int
7.2 yards/attempt
team 25.3 ppg
Horn, Colston, Moore, Henderson, Bush, Deuce as offensive weapons.
4 pre-season games to work with the first team starters.
0 games where team was displaced by Hurricane
0 coaches missing for Covid protocol.

Winston in his first 3 starts for the Saints has:

7 TDs
2 Ints
6.1 Y/A
24.3 ppg
Kamara...and a bunch of guys less talented than Brees had.
1 preseason game working with starters.
3 games team displaced by Hurricane.
5 coaches at least missed from Covid protocols.

Now, you can call someone pointing out these facts as being an apologist if it makes you feel better. I call it being a realist. I also don’t see the comparative “ineffectiveness” you are complaining about. Payton had two seasons watching Winston and I don’t think he would make him his starter if he had doubts about his ability to pass the ball downfield. But, as you say, time will tell.

I respect everyone has an opinion Boston, we all do. But you can’t state facts with your views that contradict the word from Above … There’s only one way to view this … JW is running the same offense that TB ran when Brees was out in 2019. JW is running more or less the same offense that TH ran in 2020 when Brees was out. The offensive line has not performed to the same level as it did in 2019 and 2020 plus JW does not have the WR’s that TB and TH had to throw to. But it’s JW who has been ineffective … Never a JW fan but he is “OUR QB” and I’m on him until he’s not our QB.

Game 1 was not an outlier.
Game 2 Panthers Defense man handled our OL and disrupted the ENTIRE OFFENSIVE’s ability run or pass.
Game 3 We played well and took what NE gave us.

Looks very familiar to 2019 and 2020 with Brees out. But I think JW and the passing game will improve significantly when;

Our receiving group returns.

Our OL stabilizes.

09-29-2021, 06:25 AM	#1
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by jeanpierre If Mike returns healthy we should have a three WR set WRx Thomas/Callaway, WRz Harris/Stills, WRs Montgomery/Hogan, that's not too shabby... Just seems like for Team Winston, there's always another reason 'round the corner to make excuses for Jameis' ineffectiveness this season... Packers game was an outlier, and now that teams have that film, there's nothing demonstrating a consistent ability to methodically work downfield... Brees, for all intent and purpose did it with far less; he really didn't have a healthy Thomas at all; could only get Sanders the ball on back shoulder, curls... Say what you want about Cook, but he disappeared because he's overrated and only made big catches like Tre'Quan - because he was unguarded... Reality is this, it's still early this season for Winston, we should have a better picture by the BYE, but we have five years of film on Winston's processing inability in the pocket... Bigger Question - if Sean could take a reconstructed-shouldered Brees, make him the NFL's All-Time Passer, why are the brakes being pumped on a more talented Winston? But I let the Winston apologists keep making their arguments, but eventually they'll wear out or run out of excuses until he gets it or Payton comes to Arians' conclusion... Let’s look at some numbers. In 2006, his first year as starter with the team, Brees through his first three games had: 3 TDs 2 Int 7.2 yards/attempt team 25.3 ppg Horn, Colston, Moore, Henderson, Bush, Deuce as offensive weapons. 4 pre-season games to work with the first team starters. 0 games where team was displaced by Hurricane 0 coaches missing for Covid protocol. Winston in his first 3 starts for the Saints has: 7 TDs 2 Ints 6.1 Y/A 24.3 ppg Kamara...and a bunch of guys less talented than Brees had. 1 preseason game working with starters. 3 games team displaced by Hurricane. 5 coaches at least missed from Covid protocols. Now, you can call someone pointing out these facts as being an apologist if it makes you feel better. I call it being a realist. I also don’t see the comparative “ineffectiveness” you are complaining about. Payton had two seasons watching Winston and I don’t think he would make him his starter if he had doubts about his ability to pass the ball downfield. But, as you say, time will tell. AsylumGuido likes this.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

09-29-2021, 07:21 AM	#2
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by Boston Saint Let’s look at some numbers. In 2006, his first year as starter with the team, Brees through his first three games had: 3 TDs 2 Int 7.2 yards/attempt team 25.3 ppg Horn, Colston, Moore, Henderson, Bush, Deuce as offensive weapons. 4 pre-season games to work with the first team starters. 0 games where team was displaced by Hurricane 0 coaches missing for Covid protocol. Winston in his first 3 starts for the Saints has: 7 TDs 2 Ints 6.1 Y/A 24.3 ppg Kamara...and a bunch of guys less talented than Brees had. 1 preseason game working with starters. 3 games team displaced by Hurricane. 5 coaches at least missed from Covid protocols. Now, you can call someone pointing out these facts as being an apologist if it makes you feel better. I call it being a realist. I also don’t see the comparative “ineffectiveness” you are complaining about. Payton had two seasons watching Winston and I don’t think he would make him his starter if he had doubts about his ability to pass the ball downfield. But, as you say, time will tell. You really think the 2006 roster was equal to the 2021 Saints roster? You're comparing apples and oranges...

09-29-2021, 08:00 AM	#3
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by jeanpierre You really think the 2006 roster was equal to the 2021 Saints roster? You're comparing apples and oranges... But that’s kind of the point. The current team doesn’t have the weapons IMO to help Winston get the ball downfield. I think that’s where the “issues” he’s had have mostly come from. Not his inability to read coverages and make decisions. It’s not people being Winston apologists. I could be wrong though.

09-29-2021, 08:55 AM	#4
WW_Who_Dat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lafayette, La and Valencia CA Posts: 1,277 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by Boston Saint Let’s look at some numbers. In 2006, his first year as starter with the team, Brees through his first three games had: 3 TDs 2 Int 7.2 yards/attempt team 25.3 ppg Horn, Colston, Moore, Henderson, Bush, Deuce as offensive weapons. 4 pre-season games to work with the first team starters. 0 games where team was displaced by Hurricane 0 coaches missing for Covid protocol. Winston in his first 3 starts for the Saints has: 7 TDs 2 Ints 6.1 Y/A 24.3 ppg Kamara...and a bunch of guys less talented than Brees had. 1 preseason game working with starters. 3 games team displaced by Hurricane. 5 coaches at least missed from Covid protocols. Now, you can call someone pointing out these facts as being an apologist if it makes you feel better. I call it being a realist. I also don’t see the comparative “ineffectiveness” you are complaining about. Payton had two seasons watching Winston and I don’t think he would make him his starter if he had doubts about his ability to pass the ball downfield. But, as you say, time will tell. I respect everyone has an opinion Boston, we all do. But you can’t state facts with your views that contradict the word from Above … There’s only one way to view this … JW is running the same offense that TB ran when Brees was out in 2019. JW is running more or less the same offense that TH ran in 2020 when Brees was out. The offensive line has not performed to the same level as it did in 2019 and 2020 plus JW does not have the WR’s that TB and TH had to throw to. But it’s JW who has been ineffective … Never a JW fan but he is “OUR QB” and I’m on him until he’s not our QB. Game 1 was not an outlier. Game 2 Panthers Defense man handled our OL and disrupted the ENTIRE OFFENSIVE’s ability run or pass. Game 3 We played well and took what NE gave us. Looks very familiar to 2019 and 2020 with Brees out. But I think JW and the passing game will improve significantly when; Our receiving group returns. Our OL stabilizes. Boston Saint likes this.