Observations from Saints Loss to the FailClowns

AsylumGuido · 11-09-2021, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by vpheughan

Trevor Siemian VS Falcons stats:

CMP% 61
YDS 249
TD 2
INT 0
Rating 94.5
Winning numbers if the D does it's job and receivers don't drop 8 passes

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Lost a fumble on a sack, right?

Yes, he lost a fumble on a sack.

One thing I noticed from the stands was how Siemian was hesitating when seeing the open man. He clearly does not have a powerful enough arm to zip the ball in there late. He had an open man on multiple occasions only to have the defender easily move to the ball after it was released and beat the ball there. This happened on both intermediate and deep attempts. (These observations were not only my own, but were being expressed by quite a few fans in our section.)

Yes, there were several drops, but on at least half of those the ball could have been positioned much better.

Siemian's positive numbers mostly came after the Falcons had built the lead and started playing more of a prevent defense.

The two pass attempts (both completed) by Hill had far greater zip.

I can understand trying to utilize Siemian as the starter if you were going to use Hill as a weapon, but Hill only saw 17% of the offensive snaps. His most productive coming when in at QB.

dizzle88 · 11-09-2021, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by vpheughan

Trevor Siemian VS Falcons stats:

CMP% 61
YDS 249
TD 2
INT 0
Rating 94.5
Winning numbers if the D does it's job and receivers don't drop 8 passes

Wipe away 8 drops, he ends up with about 80-90% completion percentage and probably a couple more TD's because of extended drives.

K Major · 11-09-2021, 10:13 AM

Big picture, you aren't going anywhere (post-season) if guys at WR/TE can't make plays to move the chains no matter who is under center.

I've never seen so many Saints receivers not consistently create separation in an NFL football game.

Hopefully, the Saints get rid of 80-90% of the WR group this off-season.

Allen Robinson, Michael Gallup, Chris Godwin, DJ Chark & Tim Patrick, Shuster, OJ Howard, Hurst) (All Free Agents) need to be seriously considered in 2022 as well as the draft.

saintfan · 11-09-2021, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Big picture, you aren't going anywhere (post-season) if guys at WR/TE can't make plays to move the chains no matter who is under center.

I've never seen so many Saints receivers not consistently create separation in an NFL football game.

Hopefully, the Saints get rid of 80-90% of the WR group this off-season.

Allen Robinson, Michael Gallup, Chris Godwin, DJ Chark & Tim Patrick, Shuster, OJ Howard, Hurst) (All Free Agents) need to be seriously considered in 2022 as well as the draft.

I LOVE the idea of cleaning house at WR. We need a freaking TE who can catch too. Keep Thomas, Harris...and maybe Smith can get his head out of his

, but I'm not holding my breath.

SaintGnome · 11-09-2021, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by The Dude

His mistake was putting all his eggs in the Michael Thomas basket when it comes to the passing game.

Which after the historic season he had, and his earlier success he really HAD to

Lord_Saint83 · 11-09-2021, 01:18 PM

This defense gives up a lot of yards at home. I wonder why that is. If we get into the playoffs, I rather them play all their games on the road.

saintsfan1976 · 11-09-2021, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

I don’t understand why some people seem so surprised that our offense is struggling. Did anyone honestly think we could lose a HOF QB and still keep consistently winning without missing a beat? Nobody seemed to think the players we lost due to the salary cap issues would make a difference either. I’m not really talking about members here but it seems like most people are shocked by where we are right now. It’s the price you pay for having 16 years of success.
It’s obvious Payton has been slowly making a transition to a team with a run first offense and stout defense. His mistake was putting all his eggs in the Michael Thomas basket when it comes to the passing game.

Yes it is reasonable to think we would consistently win in a post Brees era.

Look at the record when Brees went down.
Look at the roster in every other "salary cap issue" year.
Look at past Superbowl teams with stout defenses and "game manager" QBs

It's easy to second guess a decision to pay MT with the benefit of hindsight but at the time, no one here thought it was irresponsible to pay him for even a portion of the production he already displayed.

saintsfan1976 · 11-09-2021, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Lord_Saint83

This defense gives up a lot of yards at home. I wonder why that is. If we get into the playoffs, I rather them play all their games on the road.

2 home games this year. not enough data.

Boston Saint · 11-09-2021, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

2 home games this year. not enough data.

Giants Bucs and Falcons.

jeanpierre · 11-10-2021, 05:06 PM

Some observations from the game after rewatching:

Saints were just not mentally prepared for this game, Sean admitted as much...
WR play seems varies in consistency and discipline, that's on Curtis Johnson, who needs a wake-up call...
Trautman has to make those catches; that said, his blocking is light years ahead of where he was last season; now for the route running, catching...
Trevor Siemian is a legit starter in this league; maybe not Top 10 but he was getting it done with a great demeanor...
Taysom definitely brings some electricity to this offense as QB; offense was jump-started, then Payton f'ed with the rhythm, put Siemian back in, then the strip-sack...
Adebo made a costly error in detail in lining up incorrectly on Cordarrelle Patterson's inside shoulder; bet he won't make that mistake again...
Marshon Lattimore epitomizes the Saints' bad habit of playing up or down to the opposition; Latt fixes that, then they'll be no excuses keeping him from All-Pro...
Starting to see more and more average play from Terron Armstead, including penalties; will the Saints move Ramczyk to LT in a salary cap move?
Receiving wise, this team is only really lacking a true WR1x, Harris/Stills at the WRz gets it done; WRs, Montgomery was out, could use depth behind him...
Really need to pick up some effort in getting Callaway to turn in the No. 1 jersey; he simply has never earned it...
If Kevin White can catch 9 balls (3 per gm) with 50 ReYds the next three games, he should be moved to the active squad; his special teams play has been good...
If Davenport could only stay healthy, this year his play has really lept forward with a huge impact on the pass rush - he may need Cam's salary slot...
Seeing Onyemata's impact upon his return reinforces my belief that DT should be a first or second round pick in the upcoming draft; we need another legit starter at DT...
Can't help but wonder if Ruiz is only starting so Sean won't have to admit to another bad draft move; Throckmartin should be starting; Clapp should be on active roster...
Football gods blessed this team with P Blake Gillikin; he literally kept the Saints in the game through the first 3 quarters; he stays the course, he's All-Pro...
When the heck are these *DesignatedToReturn guys coming back? CB Ken Crawley and TE Nick Vannett are needed reinforcements...
TE Juwan Johnson and DT Malcolm Roach have been healthy scratches after seeing significant snaps, when's the press corps gonna ask questions?
Would Sean's ego allow Pete Carmichael to take over play-calling? It sure help the team grow when they did it for a stretch several seasons ago...
Sean's only committed to a power back twice over a period in his tenure- first season with Deuce McAllister and Ingram's first season with Kamara - results were good...
For some inexplicable reason, Sean stopped getting the ball to Kamara in space, as he'd done successfully vs the Seahawks and Buccaneers, where AK did damage...
We sure missed Gardner on that last defensive stand vs the Falcons; lots of folks wrongly thought Williams was late, there was more going on in that play...

11-09-2021, 09:45 AM	#81
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,383	Re: Observations from Saints Loss to the FailClowns Originally Posted by vpheughan Trevor Siemian VS Falcons stats: CMP% 61 YDS 249 TD 2 INT 0 Rating 94.5 Winning numbers if the D does it's job and receivers don't drop 8 passes Originally Posted by Boston Saint Lost a fumble on a sack, right? Yes, he lost a fumble on a sack. One thing I noticed from the stands was how Siemian was hesitating when seeing the open man. He clearly does not have a powerful enough arm to zip the ball in there late. He had an open man on multiple occasions only to have the defender easily move to the ball after it was released and beat the ball there. This happened on both intermediate and deep attempts. (These observations were not only my own, but were being expressed by quite a few fans in our section.) Yes, there were several drops, but on at least half of those the ball could have been positioned much better. Siemian's positive numbers mostly came after the Falcons had built the lead and started playing more of a prevent defense. The two pass attempts (both completed) by Hill had far greater zip. I can understand trying to utilize Siemian as the starter if you were going to use Hill as a weapon, but Hill only saw 17% of the offensive snaps. His most productive coming when in at QB. MarchingOn likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

11-09-2021, 09:58 AM	#82
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,838	Re: Observations from Saints Loss to the FailClowns Originally Posted by vpheughan Trevor Siemian VS Falcons stats: CMP% 61 YDS 249 TD 2 INT 0 Rating 94.5 Winning numbers if the D does it's job and receivers don't drop 8 passes Wipe away 8 drops, he ends up with about 80-90% completion percentage and probably a couple more TD's because of extended drives. jnormand and MarchingOn like this.

11-09-2021, 10:13 AM	#83
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,011 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from Saints Loss to the FailClowns Big picture, you aren't going anywhere (post-season) if guys at WR/TE can't make plays to move the chains no matter who is under center. I've never seen so many Saints receivers not consistently create separation in an NFL football game. Hopefully, the Saints get rid of 80-90% of the WR group this off-season. Allen Robinson, Michael Gallup, Chris Godwin, DJ Chark & Tim Patrick, Shuster, OJ Howard, Hurst) (All Free Agents) need to be seriously considered in 2022 as well as the draft. saintfan, jnormand, leilung and 3 others like this.

11-09-2021, 10:18 AM	#84
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Observations from Saints Loss to the FailClowns Originally Posted by K Major Big picture, you aren't going anywhere (post-season) if guys at WR/TE can't make plays to move the chains no matter who is under center. I've never seen so many Saints receivers not consistently create separation in an NFL football game. Hopefully, the Saints get rid of 80-90% of the WR group this off-season. Allen Robinson, Michael Gallup, Chris Godwin, DJ Chark & Tim Patrick, Shuster, OJ Howard, Hurst) (All Free Agents) need to be seriously considered in 2022 as well as the draft. I LOVE the idea of cleaning house at WR. We need a freaking TE who can catch too. Keep Thomas, Harris...and maybe Smith can get his head out of his , but I'm not holding my breath. K Major likes this.

11-09-2021, 11:45 AM	#85
SaintGnome 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Bradenton,FL Posts: 642	Re: Observations from Saints Loss to the FailClowns Originally Posted by The Dude His mistake was putting all his eggs in the Michael Thomas basket when it comes to the passing game. Which after the historic season he had, and his earlier success he really HAD to leilung likes this.

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11-09-2021, 01:18 PM	#86
Lord_Saint83 100% Blunt Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Saint Gabriel, La Posts: 2,754	Re: Observations from Saints Loss to the FailClowns This defense gives up a lot of yards at home. I wonder why that is. If we get into the playoffs, I rather them play all their games on the road.

11-09-2021, 01:25 PM	#87
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,528 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from Saints Loss to the FailClowns Originally Posted by The Dude I don’t understand why some people seem so surprised that our offense is struggling. Did anyone honestly think we could lose a HOF QB and still keep consistently winning without missing a beat? Nobody seemed to think the players we lost due to the salary cap issues would make a difference either. I’m not really talking about members here but it seems like most people are shocked by where we are right now. It’s the price you pay for having 16 years of success. It’s obvious Payton has been slowly making a transition to a team with a run first offense and stout defense. His mistake was putting all his eggs in the Michael Thomas basket when it comes to the passing game. Yes it is reasonable to think we would consistently win in a post Brees era. Look at the record when Brees went down. Look at the roster in every other "salary cap issue" year. Look at past Superbowl teams with stout defenses and "game manager" QBs It's easy to second guess a decision to pay MT with the benefit of hindsight but at the time, no one here thought it was irresponsible to pay him for even a portion of the production he already displayed. jnormand, jeanpierre and K Major like this.

11-09-2021, 02:43 PM	#88
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,528 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from Saints Loss to the FailClowns Originally Posted by Lord_Saint83 This defense gives up a lot of yards at home. I wonder why that is. If we get into the playoffs, I rather them play all their games on the road. 2 home games this year. not enough data. jeanpierre likes this.

11-09-2021, 04:03 PM	#89
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,868	Re: Observations from Saints Loss to the FailClowns Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 2 home games this year. not enough data. Giants Bucs and Falcons.

11-10-2021, 05:06 PM	#90
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Observations from Saints Loss to the FailClowns Some observations from the game after rewatching: Saints were just not mentally prepared for this game, Sean admitted as much... WR play seems varies in consistency and discipline, that's on Curtis Johnson, who needs a wake-up call... Trautman has to make those catches; that said, his blocking is light years ahead of where he was last season; now for the route running, catching... Trevor Siemian is a legit starter in this league; maybe not Top 10 but he was getting it done with a great demeanor... Taysom definitely brings some electricity to this offense as QB; offense was jump-started, then Payton f'ed with the rhythm, put Siemian back in, then the strip-sack... Adebo made a costly error in detail in lining up incorrectly on Cordarrelle Patterson's inside shoulder; bet he won't make that mistake again... *Marshon Lattimore epitomizes the Saints' bad habit of playing up or down to the opposition; Latt fixes that, then they'll be no excuses keeping him from All-Pro...* Starting to see more and more average play from Terron Armstead, including penalties; will the Saints move Ramczyk to LT in a salary cap move? Receiving wise, this team is only really lacking a true WR1x, Harris/Stills at the WRz gets it done; WRs, Montgomery was out, could use depth behind him... Really need to pick up some effort in getting Callaway to turn in the No. 1 jersey; he simply has never earned it... If Kevin White can catch 9 balls (3 per gm) with 50 ReYds the next three games, he should be moved to the active squad; his special teams play has been good... If Davenport could only stay healthy, this year his play has really lept forward with a huge impact on the pass rush - he may need Cam's salary slot... Seeing Onyemata's impact upon his return reinforces my belief that DT should be a first or second round pick in the upcoming draft; we need another legit starter at DT... Can't help but wonder if Ruiz is only starting so Sean won't have to admit to another bad draft move; Throckmartin should be starting; Clapp should be on active roster... *Football gods blessed this team with P Blake Gillikin; he literally kept the Saints in the game through the first 3 quarters; he stays the course, he's All-Pro...* *When the heck are these DesignatedToReturn guys coming back? CB Ken Crawley and TE Nick Vannett are needed reinforcements... TE Juwan Johnson and DT Malcolm Roach have been healthy scratches after seeing significant snaps, when's the press corps gonna ask questions? Would Sean's ego allow Pete Carmichael to take over play-calling? It sure help the team grow when they did it for a stretch several seasons ago... Sean's only committed to a power back twice over a period in his tenure- first season with Deuce McAllister and Ingram's first season with Kamara - results were good... For some inexplicable reason, Sean stopped getting the ball to Kamara in space, as he'd done successfully vs the Seahawks and Buccaneers, where AK did damage... We sure missed Gardner on that last defensive stand vs the Falcons; lots of folks wrongly thought Williams was late, there was more going on in that play...**
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

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