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neugey 11-15-2021 10:53 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 935355)
Too many judgement calls being made at crucial times affecting the final score.

And the NFL sure has become cozy with the gambling aspect. While the NFL flatly refuses to address the officiating in any meaningful way, and with so many viable options, it just makes one take a serious look at what could really be going on here.

It's not that I don't agree - I see it in a fair number of NFL games - but I'm not sure what we can do about it. It's not just an NFL problem either. There have been some dubious officiating at NCAA Div I games that make bad NFL calls this year look tame by comparison. Maybe it is the gambling influence, or just the lack of governance and accountability around officiating in the sport in general.

ChrisXVI 11-15-2021 10:54 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Technology has kind of ruined the viewing experience when it comes to bad refs. A flag gets thrown and then we see 12 replays from 12 different angles showing that it was a bad call and we just have to accept it.

cmike 11-15-2021 10:59 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Trequan is quietly have a good comeback after his first game. Those two catches at the back of end zone, even though they didn’t count, were quite impressive.

Boston Saint 11-15-2021 11:16 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 935371)
Technology has kind of ruined the viewing experience when it comes to bad refs. A flag gets thrown and then we see 12 replays from 12 different angles showing that it was a bad call and we just have to accept it.
This brings up another point I’ve made with friends. There apparently is no consistency with rules as far as what cameras are required at any given game and what camera views can be used to determine replays. We are talking about a league that will fine players if they have uniform infractions. Yet this same league, that is worth billions, cannot come to a basic understanding of and fit the bill for camera usage standards for replay determination. It’s no secret that some games have more camera coverage than others. Hence they have more angles to determine replays. The fact that they have not even attempted to establish rules to govern this is just another indication that the NFL does not care if they get the calls right. It’s all about league promotion.

AsylumGuido 11-15-2021 12:02 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 935355)
Too many judgement calls being made at crucial times affecting the final score.

And the NFL sure has become cozy with the gambling aspect. While the NFL flatly refuses to address the officiating in any meaningful way, and with so many viable options, it just makes one take a serious look at what could really be going on here.
It is the gambling aspect that is going to drive getting this issue under control. They do NOT want game outcomes determined by horrible, yet correctible, officiating calls. That costs the gambling industry dollars. The public and independent media sources have been complaining about this for years with no action. Well, they did make the bogus attempt to address it after the "no call", but we saw how that turned out. Now that the gambling industry has become a partner they can turn up the heat. I'll bet we have the "eye in the sky" official next year that can overturn ANY play or penalty.

saintfan 11-15-2021 12:09 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 935373)
This brings up another point I’ve made with friends. There apparently is no consistency with rules as far as what cameras are required at any given game and what camera views can be used to determine replays. We are talking about a league that will fine players if they have uniform infractions. Yet this same league, that is worth billions, cannot come to a basic understanding of and fit the bill for camera usage standards for replay determination. It’s no secret that some games have more camera coverage than others. Hence they have more angles to determine replays. The fact that they have not even attempted to establish rules to govern this is just another indication that the NFL does not care if they get the calls right. It’s all about league promotion.
One of many examples. The league's refusal to address the issue boggles the mind if fair play is truly their primary concern, which we know it is not. A Vegas pool tournament is more closely officiated...lol

jonnyrotten 11-15-2021 12:26 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
I took my son to the game yesterday and between drink refills and peeing every 5 minutes, the one thing i observed was that Lattimore sucked IMO. The crossing routes that we got beat on (as far as i could tell) were against Lattimore's coverage. I didn't watch the game again after so not sure if that was zone or what not but man if he actually cared, he would be amazing. He just doesn't really appear to give a rip.

Anyone else notice that or did i just not see it correctly?

AsylumGuido 11-15-2021 12:31 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 935373)
This brings up another point I’ve made with friends. There apparently is no consistency with rules as far as what cameras are required at any given game and what camera views can be used to determine replays. We are talking about a league that will fine players if they have uniform infractions. Yet this same league, that is worth billions, cannot come to a basic understanding of and fit the bill for camera usage standards for replay determination. It’s no secret that some games have more camera coverage than others. Hence they have more angles to determine replays. The fact that they have not even attempted to establish rules to govern this is just another indication that the NFL does not care if they get the calls right. It’s all about league promotion.
This exact subject was discussed last week on NFL Radio. I forget who said it, but they said that the NFL has enough money to install permanent camera setups to ensure all games have the optimal coverage for full replay reviewal of plays and calls.

Once again, hopefully the addition of the gambling industry as a major stakeholder will help in finally getting something done.

Boston Saint 11-15-2021 12:44 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 935379)
This exact subject was discussed last week on NFL Radio. I forget who said it, but they said that the NFL has enough money to install permanent camera setups to ensure all games have the optimal coverage for full replay reviewal of plays and calls.

Once again, hopefully the addition of the gambling industry as a major stakeholder will help in finally getting something done.
That’s all nice now when everyone notices it. But it’s a subject I brought up over 6 years ago and it’s something they would have had the foresight to do when they first thought of using replay if they were really interested in getting it right. If these guys running the league are just now considering the idea of standardizing camera angles for review then they are incompetent fools who don’t know how to maintain the “integrity” of the game in the first place. They are three moves too late.

Sinner 11-15-2021 01:14 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 935362)
And this is where the “proof” of rigged games lies to me. Look at that Steeler/Bear game the other night. They’ve admitted they screwed it up and there is NO CONSEQUENCE! There never is. From this game to the no call PI in the NFC playoffs, there are numerous times the NFL has screwed up calls and admitted it yet they continue to take no actions to improve. People still eat it up. They don’t care. Some wouldn’t care if the league admitted it was fixed because they still would watch because they don’t know who they will fix it for and weather it will be enough to change the outcome. The league darlings teams that always get the calls make up probably 60 plus percent of NFL fans. As long as the league made those groups happy and give other teams the shaft, they still would have viewers and still would be making millions.
Salient Point.

saintfan 11-15-2021 01:21 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 935381)
That’s all nice now when everyone notices it. But it’s a subject I brought up over 6 years ago and it’s something they would have had the foresight to do when they first thought of using replay if they were really interested in getting it right. If these guys running the league are just now considering the idea of standardizing camera angles for review then they are incompetent fools who don’t know how to maintain the “integrity” of the game in the first place. They are three moves too late.
The things they're 'considering' behind those closed doors would probably stagger us all. They knew 6 years ago what we are seeing now. They're not stupid. They're very smart. They know exactly what they're doing. The trick is to keep us looking 'over there' whilst they do their business 'over here', so to speak. The end is more revenue. The means to get there are pre-justified, and fair play is absolutely on the table...by another name called "the competition committee".

neugey 11-15-2021 02:46 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
One thing I have been wondering - are the missed extra points really Brian Johnson's fault, or is something else - the snap or the hold or laces being held in wrong spot - causing the issue? Both of those misses were not horrible shanks - both kicks looked straight at first, and then took a crazy hook to the left. Very puzzling. Might not want to throw Johnson under the bus without more info.

Boston Saint 11-15-2021 03:34 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neugey (Post 935388)
One thing I have been wondering - are the missed extra points really Brian Johnson's fault, or is something else - the snap or the hold or laces being held in wrong spot - causing the issue? Both of those misses were not horrible shanks - both kicks looked straight at first, and then took a crazy hook to the left. Very puzzling. Might not want to throw Johnson under the bus without more info.
Good point. I wonder if Rugby knows anything about kicking balls.

AsylumGuido 11-15-2021 04:14 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neugey (Post 935388)
One thing I have been wondering - are the missed extra points really Brian Johnson's fault, or is something else - the snap or the hold or laces being held in wrong spot - causing the issue? Both of those misses were not horrible shanks - both kicks looked straight at first, and then took a crazy hook to the left. Very puzzling. Might not want to throw Johnson under the bus without more info.
Look at the flags on the top of the goal posts. There was a heavy wind blowing in the direction of the misses. The configuration of the stadium might allow a cross wind just before that goal post. The home kicker would be aware of that. A front moved in just before kickoff. Remember the announcers mentioning the clouds that had just appeared? Perhaps Johnson practiced his kicks without that wind and underestimated its impact. Or maybe he just sucks.

iceshack149 11-15-2021 04:35 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Long snapper and holder have been the same all year, right? Kickers are a mess.

jnormand 11-15-2021 04:57 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 935390)
Good point. I wonder if Rugby knows anything about kicking balls.
I heard Rugby loves balls. Lol!

AsylumGuido 11-15-2021 04:58 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnormand (Post 935397)
I heard Rugby loves balls. Lol!
Camping related?

Rugby Saint II 11-15-2021 05:06 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 935390)
Good point. I wonder if Rugby knows anything about kicking balls.
I'm definitely not a kicker. I made one kick in my life and it was a drop kick. However, I'm good with dribble kicks and pop kicks. My possession kicks are a thing of beauty I'm told. My punts can only travel as much as 20 meters but like I said my kicks actually are laughable.

neugey 11-15-2021 06:17 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 935391)
Look at the flags on the top of the goal posts. There was a heavy wind blowing in the direction of the misses. The configuration of the stadium might allow a cross wind just before that goal post. The home kicker would be aware of that. A front moved in just before kickoff. Remember the announcers mentioning the clouds that had just appeared? Perhaps Johnson practiced his kicks without that wind and underestimated its impact. Or maybe he just sucks.

My tennis and golf brain tells me that if you aren't adjusting for the wind, then that's also on you LOL. I am not sure about football rules and if they would allow you to kick XP's from the right hash to compensate for cross-wind. But every option should be on the table, especially since we somehow angered the 2-point conversion gods.

darksoul35 11-15-2021 07:00 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
I hope that ref that called that bull**** steps on a Lego and Roger chokes to death on one.

saintsfan1976 11-15-2021 07:05 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Sean Payton says it best:

"Good teams find a way to win, bad teams find a way to lose"

RailBoss 11-15-2021 07:16 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 (Post 935405)
Sean Payton says it best:

"Good teams find a way to win, bad teams find a way to lose"
What about "Dumb teams" is this a new category.

Buccaneers coach Bruce Arians blasts his 'very dumb football team' after loss to Washington

K Major 11-15-2021 07:35 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RailBoss (Post 935408)
What about "Dumb teams" is this a new category.

Buccaneers coach Bruce Arians blasts his 'very dumb football team' after loss to Washington
Surprise surprise.

The Bruce Arians way.

saintsfan1976 11-15-2021 07:37 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RailBoss (Post 935408)
What about "Dumb teams" is this a new category.

Buccaneers coach Bruce Arians blasts his 'very dumb football team' after loss to Washington
A dumb coach would know best....

Boutte 11-15-2021 07:44 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
I'm not too bummed by this loss. They hung in till the very end even while tripping over their own feet all day. Siemein is a lot better than what Iexpected too see from a 3rd stringer.

Boston Saint 11-15-2021 08:04 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
I know it’s beating a dead horse, but has anyone seen or heard an official or league response to the roughing the passer call? Any comment from the ref or statement from the league? Just curious.

Boutte 11-15-2021 08:13 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
They're not going to address it. Why would they? There were probably 30 game changing penalties across called across the League yesterday.

neugey 11-15-2021 09:33 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boutte (Post 935420)
They're not going to address it. Why would they? There were probably 30 game changing penalties across called across the League yesterday.

In the NBA all flagrant fouls are reviewed to determine body positionings, force, intent and impact point. In college they review the targeting calls. So it's wrong to expect NFL refs to be able to determine these variables at full speed. It's obvious that in NFL that all personal fouls should be reviewable. It won't correct every gaffe, but should allow them to get 80+% of the blown calls fixed. Could it make some games a bit longer? Yes, but better that than have the credibility of the sport in constant jeopardy.

Boston Saint 11-15-2021 09:50 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boutte (Post 935420)
They're not going to address it. Why would they? There were probably 30 game changing penalties across called across the League yesterday.
Probably not. I believe the league did say something about mistakes made during the Chicago/Pitt game. Interested to see if they do here.

The Dude 11-15-2021 10:01 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 935381)
That’s all nice now when everyone notices it. But it’s a subject I brought up over 6 years ago and it’s something they would have had the foresight to do when they first thought of using replay if they were really interested in getting it right. If these guys running the league are just now considering the idea of standardizing camera angles for review then they are incompetent fools who don’t know how to maintain the “integrity” of the game in the first place. They are three moves too late.
They don’t give a damn about the integrity of the game, all they care about is making rules that allow as many subjective penalties as they can. Refs can flag for taunting basically any time they choose and there’s no real way to measure the accuracy of the call. The NFL has become a freaking joke. I’ll watch my Saints but I am not nearly as emotionally invested in it as I have been in years past and I’m much happier for it. Sunday was the first game I’ve missed in years. I spent the day with my daughter and had a great time. I was a little bummed when I checked the score and saw we had made a comeback but later when I heard about the call on Ellis it I said **** it. I still haven’t watched the recording and I don’t plan on it.

jeanpierre 11-15-2021 10:02 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 935313)
Call me crazy, but James Hurst has looked just fine at LT. With Armstead being a free agent after this season I’m starting to feel pretty comfortable with Hurst being our LT.
Ramczyk will slot into left tackle with Mr. Glass departure; many of Ram's incentives are tied to him at LT...

saintfan 11-16-2021 08:17 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 935428)
Ramczyk will slot into left tackle with Mr. Glass departure; many of Ram's incentives are tied to him at LT...
I still defend "Mr Glass". Nobody is better.

But man I'm coming over to your side (years later lol). The guy just can't seem to stay on the field. It's maddening. He's worth every penny when he plays.

K Major 11-16-2021 08:37 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 935428)
Ramczyk will slot into left tackle with Mr. Glass departure; many of Ram's incentives are tied to him at LT...
Who are you inserting at RT? Is Landon Young ready? Tumbleweed Peat? This guy isn't nearly as good and just as injury-prone as TA.

Ruiz is getting bull-rushed, Ramz is having a down year, etc ...

For me, our O-line has been a disappointment in 2021.

saintfan 11-16-2021 08:54 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 935439)
Tumbleweed Peat?
:banana:

turbo_dog 11-16-2021 10:04 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 935439)
Who are you inserting at RT? Is Landon Young ready? Tumbleweed Peat? This guy isn't nearly as good and just as injury-prone as TA.

Ruiz is getting bull-rushed, Ramz is having a down year, etc ...

For me, our O-line has been a disappointment in 2021.
I did see Ruiz totally whiff on a couple of blocks this week. I don't see that happening a lot though. I've seen Peat get beat way more often. Overall, I've been encouraged by the guys who have come in due to injury. Hurst and Throckmorten especially did a good job as replacements.

AsylumGuido 11-16-2021 10:05 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 935419)
I know it’s beating a dead horse, but has anyone seen or heard an official or league response to the roughing the passer call? Any comment from the ref or statement from the league? Just curious.
Any league response only comes after all games have been played and questions submitted in writing from individual teams. Today or tomorrow would be the earliest response. But all day long yesterday on NFL Radio they were crucifying the officials over the blown roughing call. That's what I love about that channel. They have no direct affiliation with the NFL other than the subject they cover. The station is owned by Liberty Media Corp. which owns Sirius XM. All show hosts are employees of the company and do not kowtow to the league. Most guests are beat writers who hold no punches.

AsylumGuido 11-16-2021 10:41 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 935437)
I still defend "Mr Glass". Nobody is better.

But man I'm coming over to your side (years later lol). The guy just can't seem to stay on the field. It's maddening. He's worth every penny when he plays.
I know it's frustrating, but it's happening all across the league. Starting tackles have been going down on a regular basis all season long. There are currently 38 offensive tackles either on IR or otherwise on the injury lists leaguewide.

jeanpierre 11-16-2021 11:06 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 935439)
Who are you inserting at RT? Is Landon Young ready? Tumbleweed Peat? This guy isn't nearly as good and just as injury-prone as TA.

Ruiz is getting bull-rushed, Ramz is having a down year, etc ...

For me, our O-line has been a disappointment in 2021.
Referring to Peat? Hell No, that ship has sailed for me.

Landon Young ready? Sean doesn't think so as he's not seeing the field, but he did keep the late round pick on the active roster...

But RT is helluva lot easier to replace than LT; and there's a lot of incentive language that refers to Ramczyk at LT which is a big indicator of where this is headed...

K Major 11-16-2021 11:47 AM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 935446)
Referring to Peat? Hell No, that ship has sailed for me.

Landon Young ready? Sean doesn't think so as he's not seeing the field, but he did keep the late round pick on the active roster...

But RT is helluva lot easier to replace than LT; and there's a lot of incentive language that refers to Ramczyk at LT which is a big indicator of where this is headed...
Facts :bng:

Rugby Saint II 11-16-2021 03:01 PM
Re: Observations from the Saints' Loss to the Titans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 935419)
I know it’s beating a dead horse, but has anyone seen or heard an official or league response to the roughing the passer call? Any comment from the ref or statement from the league? Just curious.
Ignore it and it will go away. That's the NFL way.


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