Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators

bobdog86 · 02-22-2022, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

They have. Dennis Allen.

my God if you say Dennis Allen is the leader of the defense (which I do agree with you) then why have co-coordinators? makes no sense, especially if they will be a puppet to the man (DA)....

AsylumGuido · 02-22-2022, 02:40 PM

For those not taking the time to watch the above video ...

... Ross Jackson explains how the two DC concept can work successfully within the Saints organization. Essentially, Nielsen retains direct control over the defensive front while Richard does the same with the secondary. It becomes Nielsen's job to develop the run defense for the upcoming game as Richard does the same for the passing defense. He explains that there will obviously be some overlap of the two, but given that they have already been working together in the past, that should not be an issue. Play-calling duties, however, could be an issue one might say, but with Allen handling those duties that eliminates that hurdle. Placing one of them in the box upstairs and having the other on the sideline would also maximize gameday coverage.

Minnesota tried the two DC approach recently with Zimmer doing the play-calling from the HC position, but the Vikings had issues with quality in the secondary and veteran leadership on the defensive side of the ball. Injuries also played a major factor in the failure. The Saints have excellent defensive leadership at every level, Jackson points out, with Jordan, Davis, and Jenkins helping with the cohesion of the units.

AsylumGuido · 02-22-2022, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by bobdog86

my God if you say Dennis Allen is the leader of the defense (which I do agree with you) then why have co-coordinators? makes no sense, especially if they will be a puppet to the man (DA)....

Watch the video or at least read my very short summary above, bob.

AsylumGuido · 02-22-2022, 03:08 PM

If the Saints do decide to go in this direction with the two DC's with separate responsibilities it will simply be an extension of the trend in the NFL for decades. In the distant past NFL coaching staffs were very limited with coordinators having just a few of assistants apiece in some cases. Fast forward to the current day and not only do you have O-line coaches, LB coaches, and secondary coaches, but you now have interior and exterior defensive line coaches, inside and outside LB coaches, CB coaches, and safety coaches and each of those can have their own assistants. Then you have defensive quality control coaches as yet another level.

Having a run game defensive coordinator and a pass game defensive coordinator seems like a logical extension of the trend ... if that is indeed the plan.

saintfan · 02-22-2022, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Watch the video or at least read my very short summary above, bob.

Here's my summary (with no help from twitter or youtube):

It doesn't matter what the team does, you're going to fly the flag, and you'll sit there in your retirement chair (because you don't have a life) digging through Google and Twitter and YouTube or anything else you can find to justify the decision - any decision, because you can't be critical because you're a senseless mindless fanboy.

Which is fine in your own head.

But then you bring it here and challenge anyone who dissents from the team's potentially idiotic decision.

Pretty much right on target, eh speedo?

papz · 02-22-2022, 03:14 PM

It's a resume builder. You can definitely have too many cooks in the kitchen, but not so much a problem when the HC is in charge of that side of the ball.

bobdog86 · 02-22-2022, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Watch the video or at least read my very short summary above, bob.

Did watch it, apparently you assumed I had not. It is still a concept....Don't buy the fact you have three defensive coordinators....and yes the HC is ultimately responsible, as is usually the case. Just a concept I do not believe in. 1 HC/1 OC/1 DC/1 STC and the rest below them. just my .02, hopefully it works.

neugey · 02-22-2022, 03:52 PM

Co-co's!

The Dude · 02-22-2022, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

If the Saints do decide to go in this direction with the two DC's with separate responsibilities it will simply be an extension of the trend in the NFL for decades. In the distant past NFL coaching staffs were very limited with coordinators having just a few of assistants apiece in some cases. Fast forward to the current day and not only do you have O-line coaches, LB coaches, and secondary coaches, but you now have interior and exterior defensive line coaches, inside and outside LB coaches, CB coaches, and safety coaches and each of those can have their own assistants. Then you have defensive quality control coaches as yet another level.

Having a run game defensive coordinator and a pass game defensive coordinator seems like a logical extension of the trend ... if that is indeed the plan.

A trend that’s been in the NFL for decades? Isn’t that kind of an oxymoron? Maybe I’m just a moron.

AsylumGuido · 02-22-2022, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by bobdog86

Did watch it, apparently you assumed I had not. It is still a concept....Don't buy the fact you have three defensive coordinators....and yes the HC is ultimately responsible, as is usually the case. Just a concept I do not believe in. 1 HC/1 OC/1 DC/1 STC and the rest below them. just my .02, hopefully it works.

Me too, bob. I get where you're coming from. The way I look at it, a traditional DC has the responsibilities of developing the entire defensive game plan (run and pass) and then calling the plays during the game. This approach could possibly give each of the three areas more dedicated attention. At least that what it appears could be the reasoning. It makes sense if done right.

Papz mentioned earlier the analogy of having too many cooks in the kitchen. Let's assume one cook was working on the main dish, while another was dedicated to the sides, and a third was in charge of the dessert. The meal prep would be far more efficient than a single cook attempting all at the same time.

02-22-2022, 02:32 PM	#11
bobdog86 Site Donor Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,406	Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators Originally Posted by AsylumGuido They have. Dennis Allen. my God if you say Dennis Allen is the leader of the defense (which I do agree with you) then why have co-coordinators? makes no sense, especially if they will be a puppet to the man (DA)....

02-22-2022, 02:40 PM	#12
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,216	Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators For those not taking the time to watch the above video ... ... Ross Jackson explains how the two DC concept can work successfully within the Saints organization. Essentially, Nielsen retains direct control over the defensive front while Richard does the same with the secondary. It becomes Nielsen's job to develop the run defense for the upcoming game as Richard does the same for the passing defense. He explains that there will obviously be some overlap of the two, but given that they have already been working together in the past, that should not be an issue. Play-calling duties, however, could be an issue one might say, but with Allen handling those duties that eliminates that hurdle. Placing one of them in the box upstairs and having the other on the sideline would also maximize gameday coverage. Minnesota tried the two DC approach recently with Zimmer doing the play-calling from the HC position, but the Vikings had issues with quality in the secondary and veteran leadership on the defensive side of the ball. Injuries also played a major factor in the failure. The Saints have excellent defensive leadership at every level, Jackson points out, with Jordan, Davis, and Jenkins helping with the cohesion of the units.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-22-2022, 02:41 PM	#13
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,216	Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators Originally Posted by bobdog86 my God if you say Dennis Allen is the leader of the defense (which I do agree with you) then why have co-coordinators? makes no sense, especially if they will be a puppet to the man (DA).... Watch the video or at least read my very short summary above, bob.

02-22-2022, 03:08 PM	#14
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,216	Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators If the Saints do decide to go in this direction with the two DC's with separate responsibilities it will simply be an extension of the trend in the NFL for decades. In the distant past NFL coaching staffs were very limited with coordinators having just a few of assistants apiece in some cases. Fast forward to the current day and not only do you have O-line coaches, LB coaches, and secondary coaches, but you now have interior and exterior defensive line coaches, inside and outside LB coaches, CB coaches, and safety coaches and each of those can have their own assistants. Then you have defensive quality control coaches as yet another level. Having a run game defensive coordinator and a pass game defensive coordinator seems like a logical extension of the trend ... if that is indeed the plan.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-22-2022, 03:12 PM	#15
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Watch the video or at least read my very short summary above, bob. Here's my summary (with no help from twitter or youtube): It doesn't matter what the team does, you're going to fly the flag, and you'll sit there in your retirement chair (because you don't have a life) digging through Google and Twitter and YouTube or anything else you can find to justify the decision - any decision, because you can't be critical because you're a senseless mindless fanboy. Which is fine in your own head. But then you bring it here and challenge anyone who dissents from the team's potentially idiotic decision. Pretty much right on target, eh speedo? jnormand and The Dude like this.
	C'mon Man...

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02-22-2022, 03:14 PM	#16
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators It's a resume builder. You can definitely have too many cooks in the kitchen, but not so much a problem when the HC is in charge of that side of the ball. jnormand and SmashMouth like this.

02-22-2022, 03:38 PM	#17
bobdog86 Site Donor Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,406	Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Watch the video or at least read my very short summary above, bob. Did watch it, apparently you assumed I had not. It is still a concept....Don't buy the fact you have three defensive coordinators....and yes the HC is ultimately responsible, as is usually the case. Just a concept I do not believe in. 1 HC/1 OC/1 DC/1 STC and the rest below them. just my .02, hopefully it works. jnormand, AsylumGuido and K Major like this.

02-22-2022, 03:52 PM	#18
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,697 Blog Entries: 13	Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators Co-co's! saintfan and SmashMouth like this.

02-22-2022, 03:54 PM	#19
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048	Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators Originally Posted by AsylumGuido If the Saints do decide to go in this direction with the two DC's with separate responsibilities it will simply be an extension of the trend in the NFL for decades. In the distant past NFL coaching staffs were very limited with coordinators having just a few of assistants apiece in some cases. Fast forward to the current day and not only do you have O-line coaches, LB coaches, and secondary coaches, but you now have interior and exterior defensive line coaches, inside and outside LB coaches, CB coaches, and safety coaches and each of those can have their own assistants. Then you have defensive quality control coaches as yet another level. Having a run game defensive coordinator and a pass game defensive coordinator seems like a logical extension of the trend ... if that is indeed the plan. A trend that’s been in the NFL for decades? Isn’t that kind of an oxymoron? Maybe I’m just a moron.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048

02-22-2022, 04:27 PM	#20
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,216	Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators Originally Posted by bobdog86 Did watch it, apparently you assumed I had not. It is still a concept....Don't buy the fact you have three defensive coordinators....and yes the HC is ultimately responsible, as is usually the case. Just a concept I do not believe in. 1 HC/1 OC/1 DC/1 STC and the rest below them. just my .02, hopefully it works. Me too, bob. I get where you're coming from. The way I look at it, a traditional DC has the responsibilities of developing the entire defensive game plan (run and pass) and then calling the plays during the game. This approach could possibly give each of the three areas more dedicated attention. At least that what it appears could be the reasoning. It makes sense if done right. Papz mentioned earlier the analogy of having too many cooks in the kitchen. Let's assume one cook was working on the main dish, while another was dedicated to the sides, and a third was in charge of the dessert. The meal prep would be far more efficient than a single cook attempting all at the same time.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill