Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

The Saints are promoting defensive assistants Ryan Nielsen and Kris Richard, Jeremy Fowler of ESPN reports. Nielsen and Richard could become co-defensive coordinators.

New Saints head coach Dennis Allen, who earned a promotion from defensive coordinator after Sean Payton stepped away, continues to finalize his staff.

more here

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

Sweet! Now we can get moving on personnel decisions. The fun off-season parts are about to start.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

From the guy who says he doesn't pay attention to the draft...

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

Meh ...

Minnesota had "co-coordinators" (Zimmer/Patterson) for their defense in 2020/2021 - finished 17th and 24th respectfully.

I'd prefer they gave the title to one guy and let's geaux.

Never mind me, I'm just a couch coach :p.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

I agree to a certain extent but if Allen is still calling all the plays, it doesn't really matter how many co-DC's they name.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

https://media1.giphy.com/media/N4xCVPenanVcI/giphy.gif
Pick one leader to represent the defense.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

They have. Dennis Allen.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

Just pick one. Don’t be scared.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

Casting couch coach hall of famer? :confused:

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

A really, really good talk on the co-coordinator concept for the Saints.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

my God if you say Dennis Allen is the leader of the defense (which I do agree with you) then why have co-coordinators? makes no sense, especially if they will be a puppet to the man (DA)....

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

For those not taking the time to watch the above video ...

... Ross Jackson explains how the two DC concept can work successfully within the Saints organization. Essentially, Nielsen retains direct control over the defensive front while Richard does the same with the secondary. It becomes Nielsen's job to develop the run defense for the upcoming game as Richard does the same for the passing defense. He explains that there will obviously be some overlap of the two, but given that they have already been working together in the past, that should not be an issue. Play-calling duties, however, could be an issue one might say, but with Allen handling those duties that eliminates that hurdle. Placing one of them in the box upstairs and having the other on the sideline would also maximize gameday coverage.

Minnesota tried the two DC approach recently with Zimmer doing the play-calling from the HC position, but the Vikings had issues with quality in the secondary and veteran leadership on the defensive side of the ball. Injuries also played a major factor in the failure. The Saints have excellent defensive leadership at every level, Jackson points out, with Jordan, Davis, and Jenkins helping with the cohesion of the units.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

Watch the video or at least read my very short summary above, bob.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

If the Saints do decide to go in this direction with the two DC's with separate responsibilities it will simply be an extension of the trend in the NFL for decades. In the distant past NFL coaching staffs were very limited with coordinators having just a few of assistants apiece in some cases. Fast forward to the current day and not only do you have O-line coaches, LB coaches, and secondary coaches, but you now have interior and exterior defensive line coaches, inside and outside LB coaches, CB coaches, and safety coaches and each of those can have their own assistants. Then you have defensive quality control coaches as yet another level.

Having a run game defensive coordinator and a pass game defensive coordinator seems like a logical extension of the trend ... if that is indeed the plan.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

Here's my summary (with no help from twitter or youtube):

It doesn't matter what the team does, you're going to fly the flag, and you'll sit there in your retirement chair (because you don't have a life) digging through Google and Twitter and YouTube or anything else you can find to justify the decision - any decision, because you can't be critical because you're a senseless mindless fanboy.

Which is fine in your own head.

But then you bring it here and challenge anyone who dissents from the team's potentially idiotic decision.

Pretty much right on target, eh speedo?

https://i.imgflip.com/667abh.jpg

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

It's a resume builder. You can definitely have too many cooks in the kitchen, but not so much a problem when the HC is in charge of that side of the ball.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

Did watch it, apparently you assumed I had not. It is still a concept....Don't buy the fact you have three defensive coordinators....and yes the HC is ultimately responsible, as is usually the case. Just a concept I do not believe in. 1 HC/1 OC/1 DC/1 STC and the rest below them. just my .02, hopefully it works.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

Co-co's!

https://www.melskitchencafe.com/wp-c...-Boxes-jpg.jpg

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

A trend that’s been in the NFL for decades? Isn’t that kind of an oxymoron? Maybe I’m just a moron.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

Me too, bob. I get where you're coming from. The way I look at it, a traditional DC has the responsibilities of developing the entire defensive game plan (run and pass) and then calling the plays during the game. This approach could possibly give each of the three areas more dedicated attention. At least that what it appears could be the reasoning. It makes sense if done right.

Papz mentioned earlier the analogy of having too many cooks in the kitchen. Let's assume one cook was working on the main dish, while another was dedicated to the sides, and a third was in charge of the dessert. The meal prep would be far more efficient than a single cook attempting all at the same time.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

So we have a head coach calling the defensive plays and two defensive coordinators and then there’s just Pete “Moving into a different role, never mind we’ll keep him” Carmichael running the offense.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

:stupid:

https://i0.wp.com/governanceforstake...80%2C640&ssl=1

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

If we had hired these guys off the street I might worry but the guys know each other and have worked together. If DA didn't think the chemistry was right or if the guys were abrasive with each other then this doesn't happen. IMO resume builder titles for both.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

This was a subject on something I watched this past Fall about coaching history in the NFL. They talked about how staffs were limited back in the 50'-60's and how over the decades since then specialization had began being introduced. What used to be staffs of six or seven had grown into 20 to 30 in recent years. They talked about the trend of specialization continuing in the future with more analytics and in uniform sensors and such and having coaching staff dedicated to these new areas. I believe Sean Payton is involved with a product in this arena called Zebra Technologies.

Saints' use of Zebra Technologies to track players in practice

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

Nothing in that article from 2018 has anything to do with the conversation. It's about data tracking. Why did you post it? Trying to prove something you typed? It has zero relevance...

What company did you ever work for that had more than one CEO? More than one CFO? More than one CTO? If the Saints decided to have more than one head coach, you'd support that too because you're not very smart. :rolleyes:

None, none, and none. You're just a fanboy without a clue.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

Possibly….I just come from an era where you hire someone to do a job, they are then responsible for there successes and failures….it’s not a village raising an idiot, the person responsible is held accountable, not the group. Too many shoulda, woulda and coulda’s. And every DC has underlings below him/her LB’er, D Line, secondary coaches…and they are the ones dedicated to developing players and game prepping, shouldn’t take a hybrid coaching model for success.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

That's certainly the outsider's perspective.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

This hasn't changed. What has changed in coaching is the concentration of areas of responsibility. There were fewer coaches responsible for more things. Now there are more coaches responsible for less things each. The sum of responsibility is the same.

By the way, here's the Saints coaching staff from 1967.

https://www.nosaintshistory.com/wp-c...staff-1967.jpg

This from Wikipedia ...

Head coaches

Head Coach – Tom Fears

Offensive coaches

Chief Offensive Coach – George Dickson
Offensive Line Coach – Walt Yowarsky
Receiver Coach – Bob Shaw

Defensive coaches
Chief Defensive Coach – Jack Faulkner
Defensive Line Coach – Ed Khayat
Linebacker Coach – J. D. Roberts

Strength and conditioning

Trainer – Fred Peterson
Assistant Trainer – Bill Cuthbertson
Equipment Manager – Charlie Shepherd
Assistant Equipment Manager – Wallace Brown

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

Looks like it is happening.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

I never knew that Richard and Nielsen were teammates at USC.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

Because you hadn't found it on twitter I suppose... :rolleyes:

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

How does that work?

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

In my line of work the saying goes" To many Chiefs and not enough Indians" it's always a bad deal. The blame game runs rampid.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

That's only when the chiefs are all trying to run the whole tribe. As I mentioned earlier, ignore the titles. Allen is still the defensive coordinator. Nielsen is the run game defensive coach. Richard is the pass game defensive coach. Allen calls all the defensive plays. They each have their own distinct areas of responsibility. They are defensive coordinators in title only.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

What do you think "Chief" means? The term is now Offensive coordinator or Defensive coordinator. I understand your the consument Polyanna of the group, and that's okay.......But come on quit beating the dead horse here. Your not convincing me

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

I posted this earlier, NOLA ...

.. Ross Jackson explains how the two DC concept can work successfully within the Saints organization. Essentially, Nielsen retains direct control over the defensive front while Richard does the same with the secondary. It becomes Nielsen's job to develop the run defense for the upcoming game as Richard does the same for the passing defense. He explains that there will obviously be some overlap of the two, but given that they have already been working together in the past, that should not be an issue. Play-calling duties, however, could be an issue one might say, but with Allen handling those duties that eliminates that hurdle. Placing one of them in the box upstairs and having the other on the sideline would also maximize gameday coverage.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

The point I was making is there were only seven coaches back then. Staffs have grown to 30 coaches. Coaching is becoming more and more specialized. A corporation can have any number of VP's with different areas of expertise. A football team can have any number of DC's with different areas of expertise.

If both were doing the exact same thing I would see the problem. Obviously. But if each has their own area of responsibility what would be the issue? I believe you are getting hung up on the title itself, not the individual jobs for which they will be responsible.

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

The point you were making was irrelevant, as it typically is. And it doesn't matter anyway because whatever they do you'll sign up for because you don't have a brain...

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...ad-a-brain.png

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

Please, please don't think for me or pretend to know what I'm "hung" up on. You like the idea....great, good for you...I don't like it. Your not changing my position, I'm not changing yours, which is fine. There is no right or wrong. We don't have 2 presidents just because one is better at something than the other, you don't have 2 Wing Commanders of an AF base....Just my position. I'm done responding to your position, let's just leave it there. I respect and appreciate your perspective, you just need to reciprocate. Peace and Geaux Saints!

Re: Saints promoting Ryan Nielsen, Kris Richard, possibly as co-coordinators
 

I guess I see Dennis Allen as the Wing Commander and Nielsen and Richard as Group Commanders. Oh, well. All a matter of perspective, of course.

But, I suppose you may right. There probably is some chance they don't know what they are doing. I suppose we'll find out the details of their plan later.

By the way, were you USAF? My dad retired as the 2nd Bomb Wing Gunner here at Barksdale.