Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

I have been pondering a concept. Referees keep screwing the Saints. They keep getting more brazen. The “see no evil, hear no evil” strategy is not working and its only getting worse. Its been bad ever since the no call, but this year its at a new level, with a series of inexplicable calls in the 4th quarter with all the momentum in the balance in both our games so far.

What can we do? Just wait and be patient? Get a way better QB than Josh Allen and a way better defense the Rams so we can beat 16 men, despite our cap situation and lack of draft picks? Close our eyes, whistle, and hope it stops? Hope the refs just have it our for some certain player or member of management and will forget that our whole city blamed them for the no call? Forgive them and beg for mercy?

I had another thought. Could we go on offense? Sometimes you have to make a successful strike to get the opposition to back off. As fans we can do what we want, and maybe we do have power.

My premise is that many refs are screwing us and they know it. Maybe Goodell hints to them to do it because he has a grudge and we arent an important market, or maybe they hate us because we didnt respect their authority after the no call and in their minds we should thank them for the no call and apologize to them. Regardless, I think the majority of refs are screwing us, they are unethical in doing it, and if they are unethical in that, they are probably unethical in other areas of their lives, cheating on their wives, stealing stuff from their day jobs, gambling, soliciting prostitutes, taking bribes, using hard drugs, drunk driving, dating underaged boys or girls, etc. So what if after each game where we get abused by corrupt refs, we pick the ref most responsible, and a few hundred Saints fans contribute $10-20 each to hire a private investigator to follow that ref around a couple months later when they least expect it, maybe blow a whistle on them with some compromising photos on the internet that get them arrested or divorced? There must be tens or hundreds of thousands of Saints fans disappointed with recent officiating, so even a small percentage could make a difference.

This might seem like tampering, but I dont think fan activity outside the stadium can really be regulated by the NFL. Legally, I think anyone can put a PI on anyone. This could be structured as a journalistic endeavor publishing the findings, and the protections for journalism are strong. Refs would hate it and might make more bad calls against us, but then those refs would get PI’s on them, and if they wont let us into the Superbowl anyway, more bad call would just improve our draft picks while we solve the problem. We could structure it so that if a season happens where the clear statistical trends of biased officiating against us end, we pause the program. At some point refs might decide its not worth abusing our fanbase and team and its in their own interests and to call a fair game for us so nobody is keeping track of where they are at night on the road.

Has anyone ever tried anything like this? Could it work? How much would it cost to put a PI on a ref for a day or two or for a weekend road trip? Is there a law I am missing that could stop it? Maybe if we want to stop being abused, we have to fight back?

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

If this goes anywhere I have a couple dollars to pitch in just let me know when it's fully organized.

That's a corrupt situation that will take something massive to crack open.
One huge rotten egg there man.
It truly stinks


Sadly, the only shot I think we have in the here and now is to keep games from being close and keep them out of our way with their obvious corrupt agendas in their "league of entertainment."

Add a bunch of money into the fold and watch the stench of greed tarnish everything in it's path.

I'm on board if it goes anywhere.
Others will have a better ideas on this.. I just have little opinions lol

Is it because we're a small market team?

Is it because we haven't endured enough behind them wanting to fast track the CTE thing and we were chosen to be the sacrificial lamb to a bounty program that they allegedly never provided any hard evidence?
I truly don't know but it makes me sick to see the obvious.

Its :bs:

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

Let's hire hitmen instead :twisted:

You might be onto something but I truly don't know, hopefully others will chime in on potential avenues to travel..
One hell of a ****ty road but something needs to be done no doubt!



:popcorn:

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

No need to crowdfund it. We should be able to get FanDuel or DraftKings to sponsor it. Their name is on pretty much everything else already,

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

Interesting idea, but, and you can call me a cynic, I think even if an official came forward and admitted to bias in his calls, the league would call it an isolated incident and move on.

The league doesn't care about public perception of the refs. They care about sponsorships and broadcast revenue.

You would have to have an organized effort by fans across the country to boycott sponsors and not watch games to have an effect. Most fans will look at this, call Saints fans crybabies and move on, even though other teams have been screwed as well.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

You can go out to fan forums of every team in the league and see this exact same complaint. Every fanbase has people that are convinced the refs are intentionally trying to screw them as part of some grand nefarious scheme.

So, go ahead and throw away your money. While you're at it, maybe you can get Joe Mannix to prove the Earth is flat as a package deal.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rWEwm5onaR...640/Mannix.png

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

It's just like in real life... there's corruption everywhere, from private companies to the gubmint and military. Nothing different with the NFL. You'd think, for the integrity of the game and the following of a valuable fan base, that they'd at least not be so obvious with what we've all seen, or at least do something about the way too obvious entirely reversible bad calls. Instead, it's become more aligned with boxing and WWE with what seems to be predetermined outcomes. It's all carefully crafted and maybe even preplanned to a certain extent long in advance. Hence taking it all with huge swaths of grains of salt. In the end, it's just all entertainment, like a movie script where they can tweak as the season goes along. All the more reason to not be so invested emotionally as fans, pragmatically speaking. College football is more pure, even though it is changing now with NIL and the transfer portal. They finally enhanced the playoff system for the big boy college league.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

You could do this in an ideal world. But you're talking about investigating a multi-billion $ commercial enterprise with EVERYONE involved (Top to Bottom) with their hands in the pot!

Short of finding game fixing for gambling, I doubt if they could turn up something.

Keep in mind also that in order for a conspiracy to work, you have multiple parties collaborating together toward a single action. (Don't know about you, but I can't even get my family to collaborate on a restaurant decision!)
If history tells us anything, conspiracies inevitably fall apart because SOMEONE ALWAYS TALKS!

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

There will always be human error in officiating a game. What needs to be done which isn't drastic is review all personal foul calls like they do with targeting in college. These calls that might look suspicious in real time turn out to be nothing in replay. This is all that needs to be done in my opinion.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

And this is precisely why there is no conspiracy. There are over 120 individual refs calling the games. There are a number of individuals overseeing and supporting those refs. Including the other 3,595 paid NFL employees you have over 3,700 individuals that would have to have their stories completely in sync to keep any level of corruption under wraps for any period of time, not to mention years upon years.

It is logistically impossible to maintain any sort of organized fixing of games. And don't bother pointing out where fixes have been discovered elsewhere. That just proves the point that it cannot be accomplished without getting caught.

What we are seeing is a combination of more and more advanced technology which enables better access to what's happening on the field via enhanced camera quality, increased numbers of those cameras, and advancements in replay. What we are seeing has been going on for decades as part time 50 year old officials do their best (which at times is horrible) to keep pace with some of the greatest athletes in the world.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

Here's a good April 2022 article from ESPN on the growing industry that guards against game/match fixing in sports.

Who's in charge of finding and catching cheaters in sports gambling? It's complicated.

AMONG INTEGRITY MONITORING services in this country, U.S. Integrity is unique among for-profit companies in that it doesn't engage in other gambling-related activities. Sportradar and Genius Sports, for example, have monitoring services, but also sell data feeds to customers including sportsbooks. There's also the International Betting Integrity Association, a nonprofit run by dues-paying sportsbook members who share reports of, and send out alerts about, suspicious activity. FanDuel and DraftKings are two of its biggest U.S. partners.

Holt said analysts for U.S. Integrity, which has more than 100 clients, review raw betting data, athlete performance data and officiating patterns, along with social media feeds and other sources of information, to assess what's moving betting lines.

-------------------------------------

Matt Fowler, the director of integrity at the International Betting Integrity Association, said sportsbooks, for one, are financially motivated to report suspicious activity. "If they have invested significant amounts in getting their lines right, but then they're the victims of corruptions, then they will be the ones who lose money on that," he said. "A match-fixing scandal would have a huge impact on a sport league or club's reputation."

---------------------------------------

In other words, there's no reason to "crowdfund private investigators" because there are already investigators working for these firms doing exactly what you want done.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

I don't think we could actually catch refs fixing games. Its possible but unlikely. But a private investigator can find lots of other things. I think some refs have intergrity and others lack it, and those that lack integrity are more likely the ones following Goodell's unspoken grudge against us from bountygate, and their own ref grudge against us from the no call, and being biased against us. The key it to pressure or remove the refs that lack integrity, and to do that we don't need to catch them fixing games. We can catch them cheating on their wives. We can catch them drinking and driving. We can catch them doing meth. Anything is good that gets a morally questionable ref fired from the NFL, causes them to quit the NFL (wife says no more road trips after they are caught cheating, or divorce leads to a child custody fight where they can't tell the court they are gone every weekend half the year), or causes them to stop making so many bad calls against us for fear of being investigated in their personal lives. The idea is that if refs make our seasons difficult, we try to investigate them fixing games, but in the process we end up making their personal lives much more difficult. Goodell has a lot of power, he has billions, but he can't make a refs wife stay if we get pictures of the ref with a stripper on the road. If we force enough 'sinner' refs out of the league, we will get more 'saint' refs who have a strong sense of personal integrity in how they call games, and the rest of the sinner refs may back off in order to sin in private. The point is not to influence the league, its to influence the refs directly to call a fair game or have their personal life under a lens.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

Are you for real?

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

I don't think there is an organized spoken conspiracy, I think there is disorganized unspoken bias. Goodell views himself as a sort of king whose authority should never be questioned less it be an insult that must be avenged. The Saints fan base questioned his authority more than any other, when we disproved bountygate and got numerous of his suspensions overturned. So there will probably never be any proof, just things like a bunch of refs from the Los Angeles area assigned to the NFC Championship game of LA vs the Saints, bad calls against the Saints rarely questioned, and a pattern of the Saints getting the most net penalty yards against us. Refs get the message that if they do a number on the Saints in the 4th quarter or playoffs, Uncle Roger will probably probably toast a beer on their behalf, and might buy them one next time they cross paths at the pub. For the refs I think many of them view themselves as some kind of aggrieved brotherhood. So when the no call happened and New Orleans fans pointed the finger at the refs, and the New Orleans coach went on the competition committee and created a new rule to second guess the refs subjective calls, we become public enemy number one. Uncle Roger is the boss man, and they know the Saints did Uncle Roger wrong overturning those bounty gate suspensions which must have been valid because such things are above their pay grade, so whenever they can tilt a call against the Saints, thats a great thing to do a solid for the boss man and maybe get a promotion down the road. It doesn't need to be spoken. Its obvious in how we are officiated to all but the most hardcore closeted Falcons fans.

Its not about proving a massive conspiracy. Its about creating consequences for the statistically proven long lived trend of our team getting amongst the worst treatment by refs in this era. Getting followed by a private investigator and getting pictures taken if they are having an affair or engaging in some vice is one of the few consequences I think we could legally impose upon the refs that are abusing us. Fighting back is our best chance to get a truce. Taking the abuse won't stop it.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

Yes I don't think Saints fans should allow referees to abuse us forever with no consequences. I think we should create consequences for them using any legal means.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

Okie dokie then. I wish you and yours good luck with those windmills.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

And I wish you good luck waiting for those totally unbiased but of course occasionally debatable calls to start breaking our way in the 4th quarter and playoffs. Should be happening any time now right? We are due? But still, might want to invest in a comfy chair while you wait.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

I repeat, EVERY fanbase have people that believe the same biases exist against their teams and they all have some instance in which they base that bias. Are you right and all of them wrong? Or are all of you right? Or are all of you wrong?

We, as humans, tend to forget those things that work out in our favor as opposed to those things that cause us pain. Point of view is powerful in the way we see events.

https://cdn.lifehack.org/wp-content/...rspective.jpeg

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

The statistics are right: the Saints have finished 30th, 31st, 32nd, and tied for 31st in penalties called (both accepted and declined) against their opponents in 2018, 2019, 2020, and 20201. Four straight seasons.

We, as humans, tend to be divided into individuals who are submissive and accept abuse and individuals who are assertive and fight abuse. Enjoy your comfy chair. When the bad things happen to you, tell yourself you deserve them, and its all perspective. I will continue to feel we don't deserve these bad calls. You can side with the Falcons Fans that we do.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...eir-opponents/

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

I'm well aware of those statistics and posted that same article myself soon after it was published. I would like to know who the other teams were that were ranked 30th thru 32nd those years. Is there a bias against them, as well? Or can all of these teams be classified as undisciplined?

To give you some credit, I must admit that you at least are simply suspecting a bias and not an organized plot to orchestrate outcomes of Saints games as some infer. When referring to the "non-call" versus the Rams I spoke of the possibility of an unintentional bias based upon the home state of several of the key officials involved. I do not believe they intentionally ignored the call just to ensure that the Saints lost, but I could understand a hesitancy in throwing a flag at a critical point in the game. Could they have felt some fear of reprisal from their own neighbors? I don't know. Maybe. I actually saw it more as a case of incompetency. Instead of making a call at a critical moment they froze. They screwed up. But, they have their comfy REAL jobs to return to the following Monday.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

Obviously other teams also finished 30th-32nd in penalties called against their opponents each year. The bottom 3 in a league of 32 is essentially they bottom 10%, somebody has to finish in the bottom 10% of getting penalties called against their opponents just by chance, even if their opponents are random, its simply 1 in 10. The thing is, for the Saints, 1 in 10 has happened 4 years in a row. Thats 1 in 10 in 10 in 10 in 10. Thats 1 in 10,000. The pft article I quote calculates the odds of this happening by chance at 0.0077% or about 1 in 12,000, so similar to my simple math. Thats not likely to be chance. The people who believe it is chance must believe that every other team, as we have played through the league, has suddenly become angels who commit few penalties the week they play us, year after year, highly consistently. Its much easier to believe some refs are bias.

I don't think there is an organized conspiracy per say but I also don't think its unconscious bias per say. I think if you could hook up Roger Goodell to a polygraph and ask him if he may have ever done anything that could have given refs or league employees who work with refs the hint or indication that some teams should be treated more harshly and others less harshly for personal or economic reasons and he answered no he would fail that lie detector test. I don't think he gave an order or wrote a memo, but I think he gave a few hints in private that he ain't wearing any black and gold on any sundays.

I think if you gave refs a polygraph and asked them if they have ever made harsher calls against a team because they don't like that team, don't like that teams fans, felt insulted by that team disagreeing with previous calls, or felt pressure from the league to favor certain teams, and they said no, at least a significant number would fail that polygraph, while others would pass, but some of them might fail a followup asking whether they suspect any of their colleagues might have. I don't think there is an over determination to fix the outcome of games, but I think there is a conscious bias in a lot of individuals to protect the shield and protect the whistle in ways that mean holding different teams to different standards, and which ultimately tilts the outcome of many close games to favored teams, and most of all against the most statistically disfavored team since the no call, the team that both blamed the refs for tainting the superbowl and overturned not one but a handful of Roger Goodell's treasured player suspensions in bountygate, public enemy #1.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

Bump for London game. Another Goodell - ref collaboration. Only true Falcons fans can deny it.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

They strike again. I really thought this BS would be over when Payton left but thats 3 out of our 4 games that have been decided by the refs. I know they make mistakes every game but it is so one sided with us and always in a big spot in the game. Im just venting and I have no idea what the answer is but it is very frustrating. I know every teams fans think this way but its so obvious with us.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

They should have oversight at the main office to override a bad call (like the hand to the face call and pass interference). If they can call down for ejection they should be able to override these obvious game deciding penalties

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

Honestly think it’s a ploy to get attendance down and move the organization to a bigger market. New Orleans isn’t the destination it used to be for visiting teams fans either. The crime rate here isn’t helping things. In 10 years the Saints will be somewhere else. Hopefully San Antonio since I’m only an hour and a half away.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

If they had that they couldn’t control the game.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

It honestly wouldn't surprise me. After seeing that game, I am baffled as to why the refs always seem to be on the wrong side of calls that determine games for us. We win that game if it's not for the refs. We would have a winning record if not for the refs. I don't think we are a good team honestly, but somehow we've managed to hang in games and should have won them. We're getting screwed badly.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

I can’t understand why people won’t accept this. Would we be undefeated if we had 0’turnovers? Yes. Would we be undefeated if we were more disciplined? Without a doubt. Would we be undefeated with better line, QB, and special teams play? Absolutely. Would we be undefeated if the refs didn’t screw us?

Hell friggin YES!

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

You sound like me. Someone who fully expected us to be 3-1, possibly undefeated, instead of 1-3 and now looking at every single play with frustration.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

All I know is that we get a first down conversion or third down stop I hold my nrwath because I fullt expect to see a flag thrown by a bad ref. This game is just unwatchable now. I haven't seen a game besides the Saints in a couple of years.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

It's true. Refs CAN and more often times DO impact games in a negative way.

I'm having a hard time avoiding cynicism but in this particular season we are playing like straight up garbage. Like I said, I want to see the team perform like they should before I focus on Refs.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

Add "would be be undefeated without all the injuries" to your list.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

I watch about six games a week and the reffing is bad in most of them. It seems like there are always three or four a game where the broadcast officiating expert disagrees with the call.

That said, the Saints have the second most penalties (34) called against them in the first four games. They lead the league in defensive holding calls (7) by a decent margin. As best as I can remember these have been pretty legit. Offensive holding hasn't been too bad with only three. We are at or near the top in false starts (6), offsides (2), and unnecessary roughness (4).

These are lack of discipline penalties that are killing us.

As for PI calls, we are right at the league average with one OPI and two DPI's.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

I found something in my penalties research which needs pointed out.

2021 - 12th fewest enforced penalties
2020 - 23rd fewest
2019 - 27th fewest
2018 - 5th fewest

Makes one wonder about the accuracy of the claims in the article.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

Me too, Rugby. Now I'm turning off the Saints games because I can't keep watching this garbage.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

I zoomed the Tampa game with my brother in Seattle and he summed it up
pretty well….

“It’s tough to devote 3 plus hours of your Sunday only to watch a game you know is going to be decided by the refs. I got better things to do.”.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

That's what stopped me buying Gamepass the last 2 years.
I found myself, every Sunday night, with work the next day, in an annoyed mood because of something completely out of my control.

I got that invested in general fandom, that a Saints loss would basically ruin my whole week and if the refs were involved, I'd be miserable. I recognised that it wasn't fair to my wife and it wasn't making me happy, so I stopped buying Gamepass.

Now on Sundays, I keep an eye on NFL play by play but I do something I enjoy instead. Play video games, watch a movie, see family and friends.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

Yeah, that’s the rub.

Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?
 

I really don't get how some "fans" get so stressed out over the games. I NEVER miss a game. I am what everyone who knows me knows and that is that I am the most dedicated Saints fan that they know. I can count on one hand the number of days in the past 25-30 years where I didn't wear some article of Saints apparel (I have about 20 Saints caps so it's pretty easy). I hate it when we lose, but I always enjoy being able to watch my team play ... win or lose. When we lose I never feel anger. Disappointment, yes, but never anger.

If someone let's a game anger them so badly that it affects their relationships then I suppose not watching and abandoning the game entirely is best. Sad, but I understand I suppose.

:(