Re: Everything Must Go?
 

I was at that game bako. It mattered a HELL of a lot to the 50 plus thousand fans screaming in the stadium.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

Exactly! When we win the division this season and host the game the record doesn't matter. We'll be in those stands along with 70,000 others giving it our all, as well! You never know what can happen. It's any given Sunday (or Satruday) even in January or February.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

It mattered for a week. Then they lost the next week and it didnt matter much anymore. Had the Seahawks went 'all in' that year and made some trades to be more sure of beating us, it could have destroyed their franchise, costing them the upcoming draft picks that became Sherman, Wagner, Wilson, etc and make it hard for them to resign Lynch. They beat us as scrappy underdogs with the same team they had since Week 5 and without giving up major picks or nuking their cap. Had they gone all in like some are suggesting here, they still would not have beat Aaron Rodgers or Ben Roethlisberger in the playoffs that year and they would have nuked the rebuild that got them a ring a couple years later. We are already way more leveraged than that Seahawks team was in cap dollars and traded draft picks. Leveraging ourselves more in the name of their model in insanity. They won while rebuilding, largely with what they had. Thats what I want to do.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

And your opinions do make a difference? You got what you wanted so far. We are spending max cap. We moved up in the draft. We still have Dennis Allen. Looks like we have accomplished your goals: 2-5 and denial.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

Nope. My opinions matter no more than yours. Zippo. Nada.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

Have you submitted your resume yet? I'm sure it wouldn't take you too long to type one up. Just think, I could say I knew you "way back when" once you got the gig.

:bng: :chug:

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

No, it matters till this very day. Both Saints fans (some of us anyway) and Seattle fans look back on that day and feelings are rekindled. Just like the SB year matters to me now. I guess I don’t need the Saints to win a championship every year for me to be passionate about them and support them. You do. It’s all good.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

Forever the optimist.

I am, however, a much more pragmatic thinker.

You can’t win the powerball if you don’t buy a ticket. I’m more in line with we bought enough tickets already. Now we’re just blowing wads of money we’re not getting back.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

That next ticket could be it, though, papz.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

Same here, Boston. I just want to see my Saints play and compete. I watched them for decades before we won it all. I'll do the same now except I get to do it from section 229. I want to see them go all out to win it now because I don't know how long I'll have that opportunity. I don't want a shut it down rebuild.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

Touché

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

I’ve been watching this team. I do know what can happen. If by some insane miracle we get to the NFC championship game against Philly in Philly, with the Bills having just won the AFC championship, and the refs basically doing what they do to us in big games, we are not in any universe in any way overcoming a series of ridiculous calls that WILL happen to so thoroughly dominate Jalen Hurts and Josh Allen that we win it all anyway. It is not possible. It is not a ticket. It is a delusion. Yeah the Giants won it all as scrappy wildcards buy they had a franchise QB, the most feared pass rusher in the game, a cold weather team that heated up in the winter grind, and refs who didnt hate them. We need to rebuild. We are last in our division. We have no wins against good teams. We are not contenders for the ultimate prize.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

I would absolutely accept a role reversal of that playoff situation this season. Imagine the Saints winning the division at 8-9 and the Seahawks going to New Orleans for a playoff game. In the last play of the game Hill gets a handoff and trucks some players, leaps over another and gets the game winning TD.
Anything after that would be... how do you say it... Lagniappe.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

Sweet Karma, please make it so.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

Ok bako, but step back and look at what you just wrote. It seems like you are saying that the Bills will win the AFC and team x will play the Eagles in the NFC championship game and anything else is a Miracle. You could put Tampa, Niners, Packers, etc in place of the Saints in your post and it would be the same. There are many teams in both leagues that can stop the situation you proposed. Seems you are singling out the Saints and deciding the SB contenders after less than half the season. Again, i recognize it’s your right to your opinion and you may be correct. Seems like you want to be correct about it though bako.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

Got to win to make the playoffs. Could they start winning, maybe?? Could they get on a roll, maybe?? Could they play fundamental football, maybe?? Coaching????? sub par. That's going to be the biggest downfall. Can't wait til the blame game starts.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

I'd rather we just win and there's no need for any "blame game".

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

Me too, but it's not going to happen. Allens in over his head.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

I would have sent a 6th for James Robinson. Especially since DA and PC want to run the ball all game as it is.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

I realize the future is uncertain. There are other elite teams in each league and things could change. Maybe we would have to go through Dallas and KC if those teams get hot. At 2-5, I don't think there is a reasonable scenario where we are getting a 1st round bye in the playoffs. I don't think we are winning 4 straight games against increasingly formidable playoff teams with this older injury prone roster, no long term solution at QB, refs that hate us, less cap space to make additions than our rivals, and a head coach who has consistently produced an about .250 winning percentage.

I don't see it as about wanting to be correct. Whatever the outcome would be there is a correct action to take in hindsight for that outcome, load up if we can really win it all now, or rebuild to have more cap space and draft picks for the future if we really can't. Nobody wants to have to buy new tires on their car but if they just believe that the threadbare tires can go the distance, thats great if they are right, but if they are wrong they might be buying new rims or a new bumper, hood, and radiator or a new face. I can't make myself believe our tires can go the distance even if I might want to. Its not that I am not a true fan of the tires or don't love the tires, its just I see the threads, and I don't want to crash. We have been working toward those threads for years and I don't want to continue to rob future salary caps and draft classes to win now when we are 2-5. I don't want us to be the first team in NFL history to go 0-17, which I think is the type of thing that happens down the road if we say 'damn the future, win now' when we are 2-5.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

Another thought. Next draft does Allen sell the farm to move up and draft a qb,

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

Loomis and Allen are stupid so I think they probably should be expected to do this. They are the GM and Head Coach equivalents to Antonio Brown in terms of doing predictably stupid bs. We will likely have a high 2nd round pick but no 1st rounder in 2023. In 2024 we have no 2nd rounder. If Loomis trades our 2023 2nd rounder, 2024 1st rounder, and 2025 1st and 2nd rounders, leaving us with no other 1st or 2nd round picks in the 3 year period, he could probably get a pick in the early teens of the first round, and land a young qb with no cap space or draft picks to improve a lousy oline to protect him, and no coaching to develop him. It would figure that they would do that. Maybe they will get picks for Payton but there are no guarantees of that, and Loomis has less patience and self control than Antonio Brown and will not be able to wait on a good Payton deal to make a move. He couldnt wait to see who was available in the draft before trading up this year for a frickin receiver.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

This is where you lose all credibility bako. STUPID BS statements like this. Loomis turned a mediocre at best franchise to a Perennial SB contender for the last almost 20 years. Take away refs and the NFL screwing us and we’ve got at least one more trophies in the case. STUPID GMs don’t pull that off. Sentiments like that show you to be an armchair GM with a personal grudge against Loomis with opinions not based in reality.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

This is so true.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

At least when I lose all credibility the Eagles don’t get to be on pace for an undefeated season and a top 5 pick and get a young star defender for a 5th round pick. When Loomis loses all credibility they do.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

The Eagles had a four win season two years ago and and another one 10 years ago. Saints haven’t been that low in about 20 years. In other words they had to do some struggling and get some high draft picks before they got better again. Contrary to your belief, it wasn’t Loomis’ trades that put the Eagles in a good position. You again show your irrationality and unrealistic expectations. New England is struggling now and in a QB controversy. Is their GM crap and Billichik stupid? It’s been a while since Pittsburg was relevant. Guess that means their coach and GM are now garbage too?

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

Teams have to go through rebuilds. You site models of teams that did. Of teams that acquired future draft picks instead of trading then away. The teams you mention didnt max out their future salary caps to win now after their franchise qb retired. From my perspective your and Loomis’s expectations are unrealistic and mine are realistic. I accept that teams need to go through a rebuilding phase from time to time and that when your franchise qb retires with no capable heir, you lead the league in being over the salary cap ahead of each season, etc that is a sign that its probably time to rebuild and accept some losing while younger less proven players put it all on the line and pull off some upset wins too. I think it is an unrealistic expectation to expect that we can put off rebuilding and win it all under these circumstances and do it with a coach whose career winning percentage is under .250. I think Loomis’ denial in this regard of a neccessary rebuild is delaying our emergence and ability to truly contend in the future. Yeah we might theoretically win the division if every team in our conference is garbage but we aint going far in the playoffs. And next year the hated Falcons have about $120 million more cap space than us, as they cut the bad contracts and took the big cap hits Loomis couldn’t stomach. And you know how many games back they are in the division? Zero. The Falcons are cleaning up their cap and keeping their picks and winning more games than us. The Panthers are doing it too and have the same record as us and the tiebreaker. So
I think its very realistic to say we can rebuild with dignity and honor, and unrealistic to trade future picks and max the salary cap in ways that demand contending for a ring now at the expense of the future, like we expect we have to contend every year.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

I believe it is time for a system overhaul, not a firesale, with the difference being that the HMFIC is going as well. The only thing safe is the logo.

In forestry it is called dead-wooding, clearing snags... and I honestly believe that the healthiest option for the team is to cut dead-wood from the top down starting with a regime change then two seasons of clearing bad contracts (because it will take two to clear the dead cap as well as have the required draft picks to do this).

After you do that, you can rebuild with a new culture as well as cap space to bring in new talent. You dont bring in a new starting QB, you accept things for what they are and Jake Lutton becomes the man who is either successful at bringing you wins or high draft picks :).

But it is not up to me and few people have the stomach or patience to do things the correct way.:bng:

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

So now the Falcons are a model of how to do things? A team that hasn’t had a winning season in 5 years? It’s Loomis’s fault Payton decided to retire rather than play out his contract? You are reaching to find reasons to be critical. You admit a team might have to rebuild then complain that the Saints might have to do so. You excuse the troubles that Steelers and Pats are going through by using how close to the Cap they are. Like it’s Ok to be the Pats losing but not the Saints because the Pats have more cap room? That’s nonsense and that’s not how football works.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

I am not complaining that we might have to rebuild. I am complaining that we do have to rebuild and are not doing it. Instead we are doing everything to win now for a lost cause, trading future picks, restructuring contracts to sign aging vets, maxing out next years cap now, destroying 2023 and 2024 and further, with denial. I am not mad we are losing and therefore wanting to lose more. I realize we are losing and therefore think it is futile to focus on winning now. Meanwhile the homer crowd is saying make it happen Loomis and wanting to max the 2024 cap and trade more draft picks, maybe give up every pick in 2024-2025 to get back into the late 1st in 2023 and restructure Andrus Peat with a 10 year extension to free up cash to sign OBJ. Thats how we get to 0-17 by 2025.

You have to realize the cap means something. Money is money. Draft picks mean something to. You can’t draft a franchise qb without a pick in the round they are drafted. Other teams are losing too. The falcons, pats, steelers. But they all have more cap space and picks than us for similar wins. We sold the farm and we didnt come home with the cow.

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

Cuz i have the cow:dunce:

Re: Everything Must Go?
 

You are way over exaggerating and looking at things with the benefit of hindsight. Only thing that took this team out of contention is injuries. Penning hurt on a freak, stupid block by his own player. Thomas looked great early then had a turf toe. Lattimore is young and didn't have an injury history. Other players fit the same theme. Last year with injuries and COVID the team played severally undermanned but at one point were winning with Winston. This year has been similar with injuries and the team could easily have 2 more wins with a little fair treatment from the refs. That is a fact.

The future money is mostly Tied into Ram, Latt, Kamara, (I'm happy with them on the team for the next few years) Thomas, and Peat (When healthy they are good players. We have to accept their contracts and hope they can get on the field).

We have a young stud WR. We have young stud LB. Taylor and Adebo look like players. We Probably have a stud tackle. If things go as bad as you think, we will have pick 33-40. Likely a promising QB will be available in the 25-35 range. We will see what happens.